Ian Futers Victoria park plan

[simon b]

Hi all.

 

In a thread recently Victoria Park was suggested to me as a good basis for a micro layout, I decided to take another look at it and it does seem to tick all the boxes. Just wondering how many of you have used this plan, and what are your thoughts when operating it?

 

This is the original:

 

 

And a version with three platforms which is probably what i would do:

[Bernard Lamb]

In my take on it the parcels siding is at the front rather than the back and I have added a loco release crossover to make a run round move for shunting possible. It works well but you need disipline to limit the amount of stock, in order not to create a blockage. It works well with two coaches and a couple of vans as tail traffic with steam power and goods trains of around 6-7 wagons.

Benard

[simon b]

9 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

In my take on it the parcels siding is at the front rather than the back and I have added a loco release crossover to make a run round move for shunting possible. It works well but you need disipline to limit the amount of stock, in order not to create a blockage. It works well with two coaches and a couple of vans as tail traffic with steam power and goods trains of around 6-7 wagons.

Benard

That sounds an interesting variation, any pics of your layout?

[Wherry Lines]

For me, the original plan with 3 points looks much better. It appears to flow far more nicely. 

 

There is an Ian Futers variation of Victoria Park for freight only too:

[simon b]

On 04/01/2024 at 21:38, Wherry Lines said:

For me, the original plan with 3 points looks much better. It appears to flow far more nicely. 

 

There is an Ian Futers variation of Victoria Park for freight only too:

The freight plan works well, I could see it as a large parcels depot. Sticking with passenger operation for now though. I'm thinking of using a three way point to save space, then a medium for the kickback ssiding. It has to fit on a 52" board as that's the width of the back seat of my car.

[sb67]

How did you get on with this @simon b? I've just found the thread, I used the same plan for my layout but extended the kickback siding into the fiddle yard and made it a run round loop. I found it gives me various ways of operating, either with the run round or just as the original was planned. It's a nice plan with a lot of operating potential.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[33C]

On 04/01/2024 at 09:35, simon b said:

Hi all.

 

In a thread recently Victoria Park was suggested to me as a good basis for a micro layout, I decided to take another look at it and it does seem to tick all the boxes. Just wondering how many of you have used this plan, and what are your thoughts when operating it?

 

This is the original:

 

 

And a version with three platforms which is probably what i would do:

Like a mini Minories!

[t-b-g]

I started work on a version of this a while ago, with an island platform between the lower two tracks and leaving the uppermost track as a goods siding.

 

I think it is a really nice design and gives a decent level of operational interest for a layout with only 3 points.

 

Mine is 8ft long by 1ft wide in 4mm scale EM gauge, which probably takes it out of a true "micro" category but that allows me to run 4 bogie carriages plus a small tender loco, or 5 plus a tank loco. These are short pre-grouping carriages rather than Mk 1s. The extra length also allows a short length of track (around 2ft) between the first point and the exit to the fiddle yard, so lots of shunting moves can take place on scene without going into the fiddle yard, plus the loco spur is lengthened and will hold a couple of locos.

[simon b]

On 22/02/2024 at 19:06, sb67 said:

How did you get on with this @simon b? I've just found the thread, I used the same plan for my layout but extended the kickback siding into the fiddle yard and made it a run round loop. I found it gives me various ways of operating, either with the run round or just as the original was planned. It's a nice plan with a lot of operating potential.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now that looks intriguing! Anything with blue diesels is a winner for me, any more pics or a layout thread on here somewhere? 

 

I've got a half started layout I made a few years ago before the house move (which is where the trouble started), which I think is a candidate for rebuilding into the Victoria park plan. This is currently on a 6ft x 18" board, but I think it could be shrunk down to fit the 52" long layout I'm aiming for. 

 

 

[snitchthebudgie]

Here's my N gauge version, 4' long and a sort of cross between Victoria Park, and PMP's Shelfie 3.  The short track is long enough for a 2-car EMU, or some parcels stock.  The longest platform will take 4 or 5 coaches.  I've laid most of the track now (with British Finescale code 40) and next will be point motors and wiring.  I'm looking forward to the scenery, all inner city, with the station on brick arches.

 

[sb67]

18 hours ago, simon b said:

Now that looks intriguing! Anything with blue diesels is a winner for me, any more pics or a layout thread on here somewhere? 

 

Thanks Simon, the layout is called Docklands Sidings, very simple and with the ability to run a variety of stock. 

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/index.php?/topic/157858-docklands-sidings-opinions-sought/

 

Just looked and a lot of he photo's are not there, not sure how to replace them. I'll try and add some more pcs too.

Edited February 26 by sb67

[simon b]

14 hours ago, sb67 said:

 

Thanks Simon, the layout is called Docklands Sidings, very simple and with the ability to run a variety of stock. 

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/index.php?/topic/157858-docklands-sidings-opinions-sought/

 

Just looked and a lot of he photo's are not there, not sure how to replace them. I'll try and add some more pcs too.

 

Yes please, I'd love to see some recent pics. Will have to have a proper read through when I get a chance.

[simon b]

On 25/02/2024 at 20:10, snitchthebudgie said:

Here's my N gauge version, 4' long and a sort of cross between Victoria Park, and PMP's Shelfie 3.  The short track is long enough for a 2-car EMU, or some parcels stock.  The longest platform will take 4 or 5 coaches.  I've laid most of the track now (with British Finescale code 40) and next will be point motors and wiring.  I'm looking forward to the scenery, all inner city, with the station on brick arches.

 

 

Inner city arches, just my cup of tea! Is there a platform at the rea, or just the island in the middle?  Will enjoy following progress on your build.

[lapford34102]

My take on the 3 pointer idea.

 

This is a parcels based operation with a run-round via the fiddle yard. There's more here if anyone's interested.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/178424-albert-street-parcels-oo-south-east-60s/#comment-5439807

 

Stu

 

 

 

[snitchthebudgie]

10 hours ago, simon b said:

 

Inner city arches, just my cup of tea! Is there a platform at the rea, or just the island in the middle?  Will enjoy following progress on your build.

 

A long platform at the rear, plus the island.  I thought that three full platforms would be too much visually for a single track station, so I choose a short parcels bay.

 

And I've learnt a new swear word - "Code 40 fishplate".  They're lovely but oh so fiddly!

Edited February 27 by snitchthebudgie

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, snitchthebudgie said:

And I've learnt a new swear word - "Code 40 fishplate".  They're lovely but oh so fiddly!

 

I use these in EM, very useful for the sausage fingered amongst us!

 

https://westhillwagonworks.com/layout-accessories/634-rail-joiner-mate-n-gauge-handy-track-laying-accessory-pack-of-2.html

 

Mike.

[Geep7]

On 27/02/2024 at 09:41, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I use these in EM, very useful for the sausage fingered amongst us!

 

https://westhillwagonworks.com/layout-accessories/634-rail-joiner-mate-n-gauge-handy-track-laying-accessory-pack-of-2.html

 

Mike.

Having just finished laying a load of code 55 track, my fingers could have done with them...... 😆

[simon b]

On 26/02/2024 at 22:11, lapford34102 said:

My take on the 3 pointer idea.

 

This is a parcels based operation with a run-round via the fiddle yard. There's more here if anyone's interested.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/178424-albert-street-parcels-oo-south-east-60s/#comment-5439807

 

Stu

 

 

 

I've just had a read of Albert Street, that's a fantastic little layout. Changing the lights is a very effective idea to date the period.

[hartleymartin]

Ian Futers' "Victoria Park" plan with 3-points is basically what you get on a prototype if you have a single-line version of the classic layout scheme "Minories." You just need to have both facing and trailing cross-overs on the approach to the station throat so that all platforms can be used for both up and down trains. If it is a single track line, you basically have an "Inglenook" with a kick-back siding.

[Oldddudders]

I have a phobia about terminal stations without a run-round. I see operations beyond multiple-units or pull-push being awkward at best. Clearly I have missed something. 

[woodenhead]

6 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

I have a phobia about terminal stations without a run-round. I see operations beyond multiple-units or pull-push being awkward at best. Clearly I have missed something. 

Yes, for modellers it means you need at least two engines to operate it.

 

I seem to recall Manchester Central had rather nice run round lines between platforms, but by the early 1960s were redundant, Manchester Piccadilly (not London Rd) only had one set of points I think for running round on one platform and generally the loco sat at the blocks till the train departed again.

 

London Euston - trains would back out ECS to the coach sidings or even be pushed in to avoid too many trapped locos.

 

So beyond a branchline I don't think you need run rounds but they are nice to have perhaps one somewhere in the station.

[5BarVT]

2 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Manchester Piccadilly (not London Rd) only had one set of points I think for running round on one platform and generally the loco sat at the blocks till the train departed again.

Used by the Harwich boat train I recall, where the same diesel loco ran round and took the return working back.

All other passenger were either electric or DMU.

Paul.

[Izzy]

 

8 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

I have a phobia about terminal stations without a run-round. I see operations beyond multiple-units or pull-push being awkward at best. Clearly I have missed something. 

 

If you watch the video's of Ian's layout in action you will see a shunter is used to release locos. This adds I think to these kind of minimum space layouts set as secondary terminus affairs in increasing the play value where the owner just hasn't the real estate to build a larger layout with a loop. There are many others such as myself in this situation at times. I find using the fiddle as the other half of the run round is also very useful when that design can be employed as with the layouts shown here. All these ideas are 'needs must when the devil drives' kind of thing.

 

Bob

[Lacathedrale]

I agree with your latter point, @Izzy - I had a branch line terminus layout which got into the scenic stage but I just couldn't cope with constantly shuffling my trains off-stage for shunting or runaround moves: it completely killed any kind of immersion or suspension of disbelief. I guess that's just something you have to make peace with, in a confined space. My Edwardian layout, despite being about 15' long - has this problem to some degree too.

 

 

[PMP]

4 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

I agree with your latter point, @Izzy - I had a branch line terminus layout which got into the scenic stage but I just couldn't cope with constantly shuffling my trains off-stage for shunting or runaround moves: it completely killed any kind of immersion or suspension of disbelief. I guess that's just something you have to make peace with, in a confined space. My Edwardian layout, despite being about 15' long - has this problem to some degree too.

 

 

That’s one reason I always try to have either a full run round loop, or all the core operations fully visible. That obviously means compromise and choosing an appropriate prototype. My Shelfie and Albion Yard layouts are all compromised, however to get happy with those designs I do spend a large amount of time ensuring the design really works by operating them before final track fix.