Which airbrush

[Torper]

On 15/02/2024 at 01:23, bluestag said:

Back to the topic at hand:   I recently purchased https://spraygunner.com/holiday-gift-ideas/gifts-for-kids/gsi-creos-mr-airbrush-procon-boy-ps-290/    Apparently it is built in the same factory as the Iwata.   I like the trigger.    I will likely buy a larger cup for it.   I'll see, as I try to paint my 7mm six wheel coaches.   I have failed to get enamels to work in either my Iwata or Mr Airbrush.   I have successfully sprayed lacquer with a smooth finish.    For $100 I think I did well.

 

 I like a trigger airbrush as well, though perhaps a conventional push-button one is better fro fine spraying in awkward places.  Maybe that's why I'v got both kinds.

 

As to enamels, the secret is to thin them appropriately.  I use white spirit (mineral spirits in the USA) as a thinner (as did the late and much missed Mick Bonwick) and mix it woth enamel paint until the right consistency is reached.  Basically, add thinner a few drops at the time with a pipette or something similar.  Repeat this, stirring each time, until the paint mix has achived the consistency of semi skimmed milk.  George Dent suggests that you check each time by dipping a spatula into the mix and when the paint falls from it in small self contained blobs it's ready for use.  If it just runs straight off the spatula it's too thin.  Contrary to your experience, I only use enamels - I've heard so many stories of clogging that I'm reluctant to let acrylics anywhere near my airbrush

[bluestag]

On 16/02/2024 at 15:14, Torper said:

 

.  Contrary to your experience, I only use enamels - I've heard so many stories of clogging that I'm reluctant to let acrylics anywhere near my airbrush

Not acrylics.   Lacquers.   My understanding is that they behave a lot like cellulose.   They certainly dry quickly.   And they lay down well.  I do not have orange peel or grain when I spray with them.    I get a very smooth finish.

[dj_crisp]

On 16/02/2024 at 23:14, Torper said:

 

 I like a trigger airbrush as well, though perhaps a conventional push-button one is better fro fine spraying in awkward places.  Maybe that's why I'v got both kinds.

 

As to enamels, the secret is to thin them appropriately.  I use white spirit (mineral spirits in the USA) as a thinner (as did the late and much missed Mick Bonwick) and mix it woth enamel paint until the right consistency is reached.  Basically, add thinner a few drops at the time with a pipette or something similar.  Repeat this, stirring each time, until the paint mix has achived the consistency of semi skimmed milk.  George Dent suggests that you check each time by dipping a spatula into the mix and when the paint falls from it in small self contained blobs it's ready for use.  If it just runs straight off the spatula it's too thin.  Contrary to your experience, I only use enamels - I've heard so many stories of clogging that I'm reluctant to let acrylics anywhere near my airbrush

 

Agree with all this. One advantage I find with enamels is the ability to fix my mess ups post spraying if I've not got my masking right! Certainly with weathering enamels are an advantage if spraying. I do like acrylics but tend to brush paint those.

[Torper]

14 hours ago, bluestag said:

Not acrylics.   Lacquers.   My understanding is that they behave a lot like cellulose.   They certainly dry quickly.   And they lay down well.  I do not have orange peel or grain when I spray with them.    I get a very smooth finish.

 

I've never used lacquer paints - in fact, they're not very common over here, at least not in the model railway world.  I know of Tamiya lacquers and Mr Hobby lacquers, both of which are available in the UK. The latter are not commonly stocked though can be easily found online - correct me if I'm wrong, people!  The situation is further complicated by there being solvent lacquers and acrylic lacquers - I think that Mr Hobby Colors are solvcent based.  I'm encouraged to try some as they're clearly highly thought of.

[bluestag]

1 hour ago, Torper said:

 

I've never used lacquer paints - in fact, they're not very common over here, at least not in the model railway world.  I know of Tamiya lacquers and Mr Hobby lacquers, both of which are available in the UK. The latter are not commonly stocked though can be easily found online - correct me if I'm wrong, people!  The situation is further complicated by there being solvent lacquers and acrylic lacquers - I think that Mr Hobby Colors are solvcent based.  I'm encouraged to try some as they're clearly highly thought of.

I have two miles from home one of America's best stocked (in paints especially) hobby shops.   Yes, it is Mr Hobby solvent based lacquers that I use.   They also make a water based lacquer, although I have not experience of that.  They offer no railway colors, surprise surprise, and only some if it is gloss.   There is a lot of military colors.   There is gloss that one can add to satin or flat colors, but that tends to make the color translucent.    I am going to paint my LNWR coaches in a plum (purple brown) made  up of gloss purple and satin red-brown, with a dosh of gloss.   They are primered in red oxide, which the plum should cover reasonably well.    But I am ready to apply two coats to get a dense enough coverage.  The white panels will be painted with old Cherry paint I have from 25 years ago.   It has aged just fine.  With a brush.   Again, I'm prepared to apply two coats.   Nobody said painting coaches was easy

 

We don't have cellulose over here, at least not in California.

 

Edited February 18 by bluestag
More info

[bluestag]

On 15/02/2024 at 09:33, Hibelroad said:

I’ve used Iwata airbrushes for the last 20 years and never had any problem spraying any modellers paint type. Coupled to a decent compressor l would recommend Iwata to the OP. 

Yes, I don't think it has anything to do with my airbrush.  I just can't get the dilution right.   Either it is too far away or too dry, as I get a grainy surface.

[DevilsAdvocate]

Harder & Steenbeck take some beating

Quality airbrush at around £200 ish. I’ve had mine years

 

Expensive, but remember you get what you pay for

[ROSSPOP]

So.......

 

The tail end of last year I began a rest period from railway modelling (40 years of irt so far) and purchased  three cheapo Fengda airbrushes FE180, 183, and II6 trigger brush ( each one less than £25) in order to restart some aircraft modelling last done back in the 1960`s.

 

The main aims have been twofold.... to improve my airbrushing skills.... and to move from enamels to modern acrylic paints for both aircraft and train modelling.

 

What have I learnt about airbrushing?   and airbrushes !!!

 

Well cheapo airbrushes will work almost as well as the mega expensive brands if you know how to fettle them into shape. That means using beeswax or chinese thread sealant ( or PTFE plumbers tape) to stop the air leaks at the nozzle cap threads. Polish the needle using polishing cream to improve the trigger smoothness and paint flow. Cleaning and Lubrication of all moving parts.

 

Unfortunately cheapo airbrushes decline with use because the chrome finish starts to come off. The threads deteriorate  quickly if you use lacquer or solvent products  as all the rubber seals will dry , crack and perish The only PTFE seal on a cheap brush is usually the needle packing bush.

 

But..... I was able to learn a lot about stripping airbrushes down and fettling them into good working order as well as experimenting with various types of acrylic paint and how to thin them for use with various nozzle needle sizes.

 

First all airbrushed ( using acrylics and cheapo airbrushes)  1/48 Spitfire kit since my youth

 

 

 

 

Which then led me on to upgrading my airbrush collection over the past 6months....

 

 

Top to bottom........

 

Harder and Steenbeck Evolution CR plus Solo 0.28 version .  £135 from Everything Airbrush

 

Gaahleri Premium Mobius 0.3 ( new chinese company causing a stir in the Youtube airbrushing community,    £59 including postage from the USA.

 

Harder and Steenbeck Ultra 2024. 0.45  £82 from GraphicAir.

 

Iwata Revolution CR3. 0.3    £ 120. from SnMStuff

 

All excellent products and performance........

 

BUTT.... Which of these arrived needing absolutely NO fettling to work properly ??????

[Hibelroad]

If that’s a question then my answer would be Iwata since I have never had a problem with this brand, they work well straight out of the box. Having wasted countless hours in the past fiddling about with airbrushes I am not a fan of fettling, in my experience an airbrush either works well or doesn’t work at all. If simple cleaning doesn’t solve any issue then it’s not a usable item. So my advice, for its worth, would be always buy quality and also get a good controllable air supply. Armed with these even the beginner (and we all start as beginners) can easily achieve a good result. 

[Torper]

I've got airbrushes from Sparmax (2) and Harder & Steenbeck. None of them required any "fettling" to get them to work properly.

[Barclay]

I have the Expo tools pack that includes an airbrush and compressor, and it's been very good, for both colour coats and weathering. I clean it by blasting through with white spirit then cellulose thinner, then a final go with white spirit to wash away the cellulose. Very occasionally it has needed taking apart and cleaning properly. Only used for enamel paint. I accept in general that you get what you pay for but must admit there's nothing I need this to do that it doesn't.

[ROSSPOP]

2 hours ago, Hibelroad said:

If that’s a question then my answer would be Iwata since I have never had a problem with this brand, they work well straight out of the box. Having wasted countless hours in the past fiddling about with airbrushes I am not a fan of fettling, in my experience an airbrush either works well or doesn’t work at all. If simple cleaning doesn’t solve any issue then it’s not a usable item. So my advice, for its worth, would be always buy quality and also get a good controllable air supply. Armed with these even the beginner (and we all start as beginners) can easily achieve a good result. 

 

Yes , the Iwata CR3 and the Mobius 0.3 worked straight out of the box with absolutely no Quality Control issues.

 

I consider the two remaining H&S airbrushes to be slightly ahead on design and performance.

I know that H&S have been underpressure in supplying these two new 2024 products and I had to wait 3 months for my Ultra 2024 to arrive..

 

Perhaps because of this my Ultra 2024 had  the most QC issues  that had been ignored at the  final assembly test,  as the needle chucking nut was jammed so tight I had to use penetrating oil to undo it by hand . The problem being a roughly produced thread which I was able to sort myself. The second issue was that the main needle packing screw and PTFE bearing was set too tight , preventing the needle to slide easily through it. I stripped it all down and tweaked the packing screw to relieve the tightness.

 

There was a minor issue with the 2024 Evolution  CR Plus.  Again , I needed to use penetrating oil to release the  jammed  thread  on the rear chrome body piece.

 

Oh well!! Ya pays ya money !!

[Izzy]

I just recently discovered that Harder & Steenbeck are now owned by Iwata. Down the years I've acquired a few different airbrushes. Badger 200 (inherited from my son when he left home to make his way in the world), a couple of different sized Paasche single action bottom cups with a range of interchangable needles, and in more recent times a little gravity feed double action Iwata Neo along with a cheaper clone like one that came with the Expo tools compressor I also bought to use instead of the very heavy duty Aztec studio compressor (up to 80psi) I find is now just too heavy (15Kg ) to easily lug around. After nearly 40 years it's earned it's keep.

 

There is no doubt the Iwata looks and feels much superior in the quality stakes than the others, but then it's much newer. The clone works okay-ish. Both are 0.3mm needle size so not for big jobs and large area coverage. Where they score with their gravity feed is the ability just to load a single brushful of paint for small touch-up jobs and weathering.

 

However perhaps the most useful acquisition in recent years has been the Iwata cleaning/spray-out jar. That you can also hang the airbrush off it helps make it so useful, both while spraying, and with cleaning between colours or when finished. Everything contained so there is little or no mess. Wouldn't be without mine now.

 

Bob

[Smalltrainsgreatpains]

Sorry to but in, but may I ask if there are trigger activated single action brushes? 

[Hibelroad]

Single action trigger operated brushes can be found with a simple internet search, they have their place but a dual action brush gives far greater control for model painting