Peterborough North

[Bogie]

Today I have managed to make a right mess of my back.   Hopefully it will be better in the morning. i can still sit here and post stuff though, so here is the last pre war twin still running in the West Riding in 1958.

WR twin.JPG

That's for the rolling stock fans, while down the other end we have something nice for the loco fans.

1657 1.JPG

 

I wanted to hit the "Like" button - but then thought you might think I was taking delight in your back problem.

 

So leaving that aside I do like the two (2) photos.

[Mallard60022]

Slightly OT but I have just heard from Southern Pride about a Gresley Corridor Artic set of etches. It would seem I can get a set on a fret as Dave is ordering now. If anyone wants a set of Gresley sides EB2 on the SP site then contact him now as the order is at the Etchers. I am not quite clear if the etch he is getting me includes a non gangwayed set as well (I'm paying £25 + P & P) as both come on one etch. If it does then £25 seems to be the cost for both so I shall have an EB1 spare at some time

Just for info in case anyone was interested.

Phil 

[great northern]

Very OT....sorry. G, is there short term Parking for collecting passengers arriving at Grantham.

Thanks

Phil

Yes Phil, about 12 twenty minute stay places.

[chaz]

 I have noted that a particular combination of locomotives goes down very well, and so this opportunity was not one to be missed.

SG and B17.JPG

and here is another one which comes out better in black and white.SG 3.JPG

Any views on added "noise" with this kind of shot? Does it enhance your viewing pleasure?

 

Since your asking, I think that fake grain rarely works and my own vote would be no - it's unlikely to enhance my viewing pleasure. But feel free to prove me wrong...

[great northern]

Two more pictures tonight. There is a slight problem with the first one though. Although it has the winning combination of A4 and B17, it also has a tension lock coupling lying about in plain sight, As usual I didn't notice that until after the picture was taken, and I don't know  how to get rid of it, and then replace the gap with something else. Nor do I know how it got there.

Please do your best to ignore it,and pass on to the shot below.

Dominion of Canada is now passing the K2 in the bay. If the driver is indeed Hoole, he is no doubt whistling furiously for the road. The signal remains obstinately at danger though, but you won't find out why until tomorrow.

Edited August 18, 2016 by great northern

[chaz]

Two more pictures tonight. There is a slight problem with the first one though. Although it has the winning combination of A4 and B17, it also has a tension lock coupling lying about in plain sight, As usual I didn't notice that until after the picture was taken, and I don't know  how to get rid of it, and then replace the gap with something else. Nor do I know how it got there.

SG and b17 2.JPG

Please do your best to ignore it,and pass on to the shot below.

SG and K2.JPG

Dominion of Canada is now passing the K2 in the bay. If the driver is indeed Hoole, he is no doubt whistling furiously for the road. The signal remains obstinately at danger though, but you won't find out why until tomorrow.

 

Was the Scotch Goods unique in Britain in using top-link locos for a freight? And given their well-known high speed exploits would a 9F have been a success on this service? I think we should be told. 

[jwealleans]

Was the Scotch Goods unique in Britain in using top-link locos for a freight?

No. Only, probably, the best known. Perishable freight had to be moved as quickly as possible in the days before refrigerated vehicles and was often given priority over passenger workings as well as a fast, powerful locomotive.

 

Quite apart from the requirements of balancing workings in diagrams, which might lead to ostensibly very odd-looking combinations of locomotive and train.

 

I'm sure an argument could be made around what defined a 'top link' locomotive as well. My understanding of the link system is that it was based around diagrams, or regular workings of certain trains to certain destinations. There's no direct requirement for what might be seen as the 'top' link of drivers to work the principal passenger trains or have the fastest, most powerful locomotives. I'm sure someone can come up with examples where this wasn't the case.

 

Strictly within the boundaries of the LNER, although Gresley built the A1/A3 and then A4 classes principally to handle the long distance express passenger traffic, he also ultimately created the V2 class, regarded as almost their equal, for fast freight work. 'Green Arrow' refers to a rapid freight consignment system which originated on the GWR and was adopted by all 4 railway companies in the 1930s in an effort to retain or win back goods traffic in the face of road competition.

[chaz]

Two more pictures tonight. There is a slight problem with the first one though. Although it has the winning combination of A4 and B17, it also has a tension lock coupling lying about in plain sight, As usual I didn't notice that until after the picture was taken, and I don't know  how to get rid of it, and then replace the gap with something else. Nor do I know how it got there.

SG and b17 2.JPG

Please do your best to ignore it,and pass on to the shot below.

SG and K2.JPG

Dominion of Canada is now passing the K2 in the bay. If the driver is indeed Hoole, he is no doubt whistling furiously for the road. The signal remains obstinately at danger though, but you won't find out why until tomorrow.

 

Some time ago I "borrowed" a friend's father's house to set up Dock Green for a photo and video session. One of the best photos was completely ruined by a prominent dental tool (which we use as uncoupling poles). It happens. I suppose a long session with Photoshop might have rescued it but I cut my losses and deleted the evidence.

 

Chaz

[great northern]

And so to the next enthralling episode. Why is Bill Hoole sitting looking at signals at danger? Why is the ECML's premier freight service being delayed in this way. The clue is in this panorama, the first taken from the "new" Spital Bridge.

[Mallard60022]

Was the Scotch Goods unique in Britain in using top-link locos for a freight? And given their well-known high speed exploits would a 9F have been a success on this service? I think we should be told. 

Not in the same league distance wise, however the LSWR route had a fully fitted, 42 Van express freight (probably meat from Smithfield for the west country) that ran west behind a Packet every weekday night and Saturday I think (but uncertain without checking). AFAIK water stop at Salisbury only.

I have not fathomed out the return working(s) of those vans.....yet.

Phil

Edited August 19, 2016 by Mallard60022

[Fat Controller]

Not in the same league distance wise, however the LSWR route had a fully fitted, 42 Van express freight (probably meat from Smithfield for the west country) that ran west behind a Packet every weekday night and Saturday I think (but uncertain without checking). AFAIK water stop at Salisbury only.

I have not fathomed out the return working(s) of those vans.....yet.

Phil

I have seen photos of ex-LMS Pacifics on fish and perishable workings from Heysham to London, and Castles on perishables from Milford and Fishguard.

Phil- I wonder if the train you mention is in fact conveying the returning empties from Smithfield to the numerous abattoirs served by the SR in the South West? There being a limited number of vans and containers for this traffic, their prompt return would be a priority.

[CUTLER2579]

And so to the next enthralling episode. Why is Bill Hoole sitting looking at signals at danger? Why is the ECML's premier freight service being delayed in this way. The clue is in this panorama, the first taken from the "new" Spital Bridge.

from Spital bridge.JPG

 

Well from memory 266 Down left Kings Cross Goods at 3.05 pm and the Talisman left Kings Cross at 4.00.However I can't believe Bill Hoole would have lost 55 minutes in covering 76 miles. So it is obviously being held for the passing of an express passenger headed by an A! ?. However which one my memory fails me on.

[great northern]

Well from memory 266 Down left Kings Cross Goods at 3.05 pm and the Talisman left Kings Cross at 4.00.However I can't believe Bill Hoole would have lost 55 minutes in covering 76 miles. So it is obviously being held for the passing of an express passenger headed by an A! ?. However which one my memory fails me on.

 My goods WTT is for 1956 Derek, and shows 266 Down leaving KX at 3.00pm, and arriving Peterborough at 4.59pm, where it is marked as crossing to the goods line. That I think would have been to allow precedence to the West Riding, which was timed to pass PN at 4.59pm too. However, by 1958 266 Down had been pathed to run somewhat later, 3.20pm I believe. If 266 arrived at PN at 5.19pm, it would be at odds with another express, and still get crossed to the Slow to allow precedence, hence the entry in the 1958 WTT, which shows goods line. Either way, it would be of little consequence, as 266 Down was timetabled to stop at Westwood Yard for examination in any event, so Bill Hoole would have got less than a mile further before stopping anyway.

[chaz]

Well from memory 266 Down left Kings Cross Goods at 3.05 pm and the Talisman left Kings Cross at 4.00.However I can't believe Bill Hoole would have lost 55 minutes in covering 76 miles. So it is obviously being held for the passing of an express passenger headed by an A! ?. However which one my memory fails me on.

 

In the Trains Illustrated Annual for 1960 there is an article by B Perren about 266 Down. Here is a quote from it...

 

"One story concerns that great personality Driver Bill Hoole. Because of a last minute defect on the engine, which was quickly repaired, departure from Kings Cross was 23 minutes late. Now Hoole realised that if he did not make a smart run down the main line he would soon be stowed in a loop to let the 'West Riding' and the 'Talisman' pass; this delay would probably mean that he would also be put inside for the 'Tees-Tyne Pullman at Grantham. He therefore forged ahead and by Hitchin had the train well on the move. He covered the 27 miles from Hitchin to Huntingdon in 20 minutes, the normal booked timing for the 'Talisman' between these stations, but unfortunately the wagons did not take kindly to these exertions and one developed a hot box. A special stop to detach the offender had to be made at Peterborough, during which time, to Bill's disgust, the two expresses passed through. However he was soon away again, making passenger train speeds up Stoke Bank; but at Grove Road signalbox he was brought to a stand - a freight checked by the 'Talisman'! Nevertheless Doncaster was passed right on time...."

 

Hope that's of interest.

 

Chaz

[Mallard60022]

I have seen photos of ex-LMS Pacifics on fish and perishable workings from Heysham to London, and Castles on perishables from Milford and Fishguard.

Phil- I wonder if the train you mention is in fact conveying the returning empties from Smithfield to the numerous abattoirs served by the SR in the South West? There being a limited number of vans and containers for this traffic, their prompt return would be a priority.

That's a point but I won't expand it here other than to say I'll have a look (any excuse) at my Various info books about the workings.

I know the NE Packet was used on an east bound later morning/early p.m. express.  

Thanks Brian

[great northern]

In the Trains Illustrated Annual for 1960 there is an article by B Perren about 266 Down. Here is a quote from it...

 

"One story concerns that great personality Driver Bill Hoole. Because of a last minute defect on the engine, which was quickly repaired, departure from Kings Cross was 23 minutes late. Now Hoole realised that if he did not make a smart run down the main line he would soon be stowed in a loop to let the 'West Riding' and the 'Talisman' pass; this delay would probably mean that he would also be put inside for the 'Tees-Tyne Pullman at Grantham. He therefore forged ahead and by Hitchin had the train well on the move. He covered the 27 miles from Hitchin to Huntingdon in 20 minutes, the normal booked timing for the 'Talisman' between these stations, but unfortunately the wagons did not take kindly to these exertions and one developed a hot box. A special stop to detach the offender had to be made at Peterborough, during which time, to Bill's disgust, the two expresses passed through. However he was soon away again, making passenger train speeds up Stoke Bank; but at Grove Road signalbox he was brought to a stand - a freight checked by the 'Talisman'! Nevertheless Doncaster was passed right on time...."

 

Hope that's of interest.

 

Chaz

Thanks Chaz, that was the occasion I was thinking of, but I couldn't remember where I had seen it. I can't lay my hands on the information that 266 had a slightly later path in 58 just now, but I'm sure I adjusted my sequence to cover that. 

 

Now I think about it more, I believe the original account of Bill's adventures was reconted by Gerry Fiennes.

[great northern]

  Next picture in the saga of 266 Down.

The A2/3 is on the Up Glasgow, and will be replaced by that shiny A4 in the bay. The reason for the hold up to the goods is getting closer.

[chaz]

  Next picture in the saga of 266 Down.

3 engimes.JPG

The A2/3 is on the Up Glasgow, and will be replaced by that shiny A4 in the bay. The reason for the hold up to the goods is getting closer.

 

Four Pacifics in one photograph, excellent! (even if one of them is one of Mr Thompson's). I imagine the only place where this would be a likely regular occurence would be The Cross (not counting sheds of course!).

 

I remember being out with my late father a mile or two north of Hatfield. He was taking a picture with his folding 620 Kodak of an approaching A4 on an up train. As he was getting ready to release the shutter a second "streak" swept out from under the bridge on which we were standing. He was lucky enough to capture them both although the down train was somewhat blurred. He was always very proud of that photo. As I recall the up loco was No. 17 (my favourite streak) - what the down one was I don't think we spotted. I like to think it might have been No. 4 - the only one I never saw.

 

Chaz

Edited August 19, 2016 by chaz

[Mallard60022]

I would like to see 4 Thompson Pacifics in one photo please. No clean ones or even half clean ones if that's OK?

E.Thompson

Edited August 19, 2016 by Mallard60022

[MidlandModeler]

Loving see this wonderful layouts developing, can't wait to see the finished product. Keep up the good work!

[New Haven Neil]

I would like to see 4 Thompson Pacifics in one photo please. No clean ones or even half clean ones if that's OK?

E.Thompson

 

Bring a bucket to collect all the broken smokebox saddle bolts, Phil!

[great northern]

My back says I'm not to play golf for the time being, so plenty of time for photo taking, and even a bit of modelling, possibly.

The mystery is now solved,and even Mr Hoole should not complain at waiting for this.

 

There is one small correction to make though - there are only three Pacifics on show in any of these images, plus distant views of a K2 and a V2.

[great northern]

I would like to see 4 Thompson Pacifics in one photo please. No clean ones or even half clean ones if that's OK?

E.Thompson

It is all this sitting about that is causing these aberrant, and some might say abhorrent thoughts, you naughty duck. And where am I going to find four filthy Thompsons?

[chaz]

My back says I'm not to play golf for the time being, so plenty of time for photo taking, and even a bit of modelling, possibly.

3 engines closer.JPG

The mystery is now solved,and even Mr Hoole should not complain at waiting for this.

closer still.JPG

 

There is one small correction to make though - there are only three Pacifics on show in any of these images, plus distant views of a K2 and a V2.

 

OOPS! It was that reference to the shiny A4 in the bay - but I boobed - the bay in question is at the far end of the station and not visible from 'ere. It's a fair cop, guv. How about it though, four Pacifics in one shot? Should be possible, you could replace that standby V2 with an A3....

 

But Mr Hoole will be fuming when, after charging up Stoke Bank he is brought to a stand as the 'Talisman' hasn't cleared the section. Tardy or what?

Edited August 19, 2016 by chaz

[chaz]

It is all this sitting about that is causing these aberrant, and some might say abhorrent thoughts, you naughty duck. And where am I going to find four filthy Thompsons?

 

Please don't try to hard, one filthy Thompson is quite enough to be getting on with.