Peterborough North

[micklner]

Luverly jubbly

[CWJ]

And as fiddle yards aren't very inspiring...

 

I beg to differ! Your fiddle yard is very inspirational, especially the way you have used every square inch of available space and thought about how each siding will be used. I'm afraid I'm one of those sad people who tries to peek at the hidden parts of exhibition layouts; I find them almost as interesting as the scenic bits. Congratulations on completing your trackwork - I wish I was at the same stage!

 

Cheers,

 

Will

[millerhillboy]

mmmm A3s and A4s. Lovely lovely lovely.

[LNERGE]

We shall make sure that all of the signals are perpendicular when they are finally put in place.

 

17 signal seems to be nowhere near the line it applies to. Is it to be resited in due course?

[jwealleans]

Congratulations, Gilbert. It was a brave decision to make given how much work had gone into Mk 1 and I'm pleased to see it's starting to come together for you. I have enjoyed this thread over the last few months.

[S.A.C Martin]

Congratulations, Gilbert. It was a brave decision to make given how much work had gone into Mk 1 and I'm pleased to see it's starting to come together for you. I have enjoyed this thread over the last few months.

 

I'll second that. It's been terrific reading, certainly learned a lot in this thread

[gresley]

It gets my vote too. Brilliant. I must admit that if my layout was as god as No 1 was, I doubt if I would have had the courage to demolish it and start again.

 

Gilbert, what was it that Gunga Din said ?????

 

Stuart

[great northern]

17 signal seems to be nowhere near the line it applies to. Is it to be resited in due course?

 

Hi Richard,

 

According to the plan, it appears to be sited alongside the excursion line, though it relates to the Arcade bays.Looking at photos, it also seems to be behind the bracket signal with arms 6 7 and 8 on the Spital Junction diagram, so that is why Ken and I put it where it is. I would be grateful if you could indicate where you think it should be. Your knowledge in this area is much greater than mine, so your input is very valuable. And of course I want to get it right.

[great northern]

It gets my vote too. Brilliant. I must admit that if my layout was as god as No 1 was, I doubt if I would have had the courage to demolish it and start again.

 

Gilbert, what was it that Gunga Din said ?????

 

Stuart

 

I confess you've got me beaten with that one Stuart. Please enlighten me. As to MK1, it looked good , but it didn't operate well. Yesterday was pretty warm here, and about midday I went up in the loft in search of something. It was absolutely stifling up there, and if I had been intending to do some operating I would have beaten a hasty retreat. The new room in contrast was pleasantly warm, and with a lovely view outside as well. No contest I assure you, and yet another confirmation as far as I'm concerned that it was the right decision. I spent most of the afternoon working on the layout, and really enjoyed it. Today there have been four of us in there. Plenty of room, everything within reach- heaven.

[LNERGE]

Hi Richard,

 

According to the plan, it appears to be sited alongside the excursion line, though it relates to the Arcade bays.Looking at photos, it also seems to be behind the bracket signal with arms 6 7 and 8 on the Spital Junction diagram, so that is why Ken and I put it where it is. I would be grateful if you could indicate where you think it should be. Your knowledge in this area is much greater than mine, so your input is very valuable. And of course I want to get it right.

 

I'd place it somewhere near the fishplates between the common crossing and closure rails of 19 points, the connection between the Arcade Loop Line and Arcade Siding. Although you have simplified in this area i'm sure you have modelled this point.

 

 

The layout is looking fantastic. It is almost moving me to model a prototype location.. I'm no expert on Peterborough. I just have a humungas pile of paperwork covering KX - Stoke that one day i'll get sorted out properly and uploaded to the net.

[HerbertHopkins]

I confess you've got me beaten with that one Stuart.

 

I think this might be a misquote. The actual words of the poem, IIRC, were 'You're a better man than I am Gunga Din'. I think Stuart is paying you a compliment!

[great northern]

I'd place it somewhere near the fishplates between the common crossing and closure rails of 19 points, the connection between the Arcade Loop Line and Arcade Siding. Although you have simplified in this area i'm sure you have modelled this point.

 

 

The layout is looking fantastic. It is almost moving me to model a prototype location.. I'm no expert on Peterborough. I just have a humungas pile of paperwork covering KX - Stoke that one day i'll get sorted out properly and uploaded to the net.

 

Unfortunately the point you mention is one we had to leave out. In the end all we could do was take a single turnout off the Down main, then split it into the two bays. I've attached a couple of close up shots to show what I mean. As Signal 17 was behind Spital Bridge Signal 6/7/8, this effectively dictated that it went where it is. Unless I move the Spital Junction bracket a bit further back along the excursion line, in which case 17 could come a bit closer to the Arcade bays as well?

[log0008]

looks fantastic! I love it! U got a lot of signals

[LNERGE]

Unfortunately the point you mention is one we had to leave out. In the end all we could do was take a single turnout off the Down main, then split it into the two bays. I've attached a couple of close up shots to show what I mean. As Signal 17 was behind Spital Bridge Signal 6/7/8, this effectively dictated that it went where it is. Unless I move the Spital Junction bracket a bit further back along the excursion line, in which case 17 could come a bit closer to the Arcade bays as well?

 

As it stands the signal is not able to do it's job of controlling the exit from the Arcade Loop Line and Arcade Siding. Looking at you pictures there is a little scope to bring it back to the fouling point of these lines and the down main if you move 6/7/8 signal back a little perhaps?

[great northern]

As it stands the signal is not able to do it's job of controlling the exit from the Arcade Loop Line and Arcade Siding. Looking at you pictures there is a little scope to bring it back to the fouling point of these lines and the down main if you move 6/7/8 signal back a little perhaps?

 

Yes thanks Richard - that's the answer. Signal 6/7/8 will then be too close to the platform end if one wants to be pedantic, but it is an unavoidable consequence of the compression at this end of the layout. Sooner that than a signal in a totally wrong location. So, I will move Sig 17 back to where 6/7/8 is now, and move that one back about 9 inches.

[LNERGE]

Yes thanks Richard - that's the answer. Signal 6/7/8 will then be too close to the platform end if one wants to be pedantic, but it is an unavoidable consequence of the compression at this end of the layout. Sooner that than a signal in a totally wrong location. So, I will move Sig 17 back to where 6/7/8 is now, and move that one back about 9 inches.

 

Ouch. The only pictures i have found are in Eric Sawford's book 'Odd Corners of the Eastern'.. 17 signal does seem awkwardly placed. The whole arrangement seems rather awkward. Only the Arcade Loop Line was set up for passenger working and trains were started towards 17 by 12 disc. 17 could only be cleared if line clear was obtained from Spital Junction and Peterborough North had set the route.

 

Edit..

 

Is it possible you can take a photo looking north along the down main through the straight part of the platforms?

[S.A.C Martin]

Loving it - really looking tremendous that ballasting. The attention to detail is something for the rest of us to strive for, that's for certain!

[LNERGE]

I'm convinced now 17 is in front of 6/7/8.

[gresley]

I think this might be a misquote. The actual words of the poem, IIRC, were 'You're a better man than I am Gunga Din'. I think Stuart is paying you a compliment!

 

 

Herbert,

 

Quite right. Thanks for the correction. Old age is definitely here !!!!!!

 

Stuart

[Guest Tom F]

Very much enjoying looking at that track work, the ballasting looks particular nice

 

Whats your method for ballasting Gilbert, and what type/make do you use?

 

Tom

[great northern]

Very much enjoying looking at that track work, the ballasting looks particular nice

 

Whats your method for ballasting Gilbert, and what type/make do you use?

 

Tom

 

Hi Tom,

 

I can take no credit for the ballasting which was done professionally by Norman Saunders in his workshop.I don't know how he does it, but it's excellent. I particularly like the way he uses several different shades depending on the use and condition of the track. That's what makes it stand out for me, and I guess any of us can observe from photos and then try to recreate what we have seen. Not many colour photos in 1958 though, but the few we did find are what Norman has managed to recreate.

[great northern]

More progress has been made. Having finished laying all of the fiddle yard, I've been able to get a lot more locos down from the loft and out of their boxes for the first time in nearly two years. :D That has allowed me to start assessing whether my big ideas about the running of the layout will work in practice. If possible I want to run a sequence which follows the 1958 WTT, and to run correct loco diagrams as well. That means that a loco that goes North will return on a southbound train, but only after a suitable time has passed. It took a long time to get from Peterborough to Newcastle in those days, so some locos will only be seen once in a day. This is a very good excuse for having far more Pacifics than I would otherwise need. The idea is that before each operating session I will set up roads full of locos placed in order of use. So, there will I hope be designated roads for Up and Down Scottish expresses, and the same for Newcastle and West Riding trains. Locos can then just be driven onto the appropriate train. After use they will be transferred by a loco lift to under baseboard shelves, and the next loco will be moved up onto the layout.

These are the Up spurs for West Riding at the front, then Newcastle, then Scotland. And as some people like looking at locos, here's a closer view.

Tom has also been busy, and has created this masterpiece to sit above the fiddle yard. It's a straight steal from Stoke Summit, and will have large numerals on the sides identifying the storage roads when I can source some. It will allow more stock to be stored without constant bending to get at stuff from under the baseboards.

 

I've not quite decided yet how to use this space. My idea is that there is a storage area for each loco depot that supplied engines. Kings Cross for example will have 23 diagrams, all of which I have worked out and are on a database. It would be nice to vary them each time I get through the whole sequence, so that the same loco does not for ever work the same train. So, my Powerpoint programme, which will be running on a laptop will tell me for example that the next down Leeds will be worked by "KX 15". It's logical to have a shelf with all KX locos sitting in numbered bays for easy identification, but it's also sensible to have locos sitting on the bridge above the fiddle yard above the road that they will be going to work. I'll think about it. More to show later, but now I have to go out and enjoy myself.

[great northern]

Here are a few more photos, this time of the other end of the fiddle yard.

These will head the first five Scottish services Northbound. There are only seven in the full day's timetable, so these two spurs cover nearly everything, which is surprisingly good.

Next is the West Riding and Newcastle spurs. The gap is there because a Grantham loco on an early Up train will slot in for its return journey.

As you can see, that still leaves plenty of free space. I am now working out how to fill it.

I had to have this loco, as it was the only Scottish Pacific I ever saw on the daily running in turn from Doncaster Plant. She came through Retford one beautiful early August day in 1958, absolutely gleaming, and I've discovered that she actually stayed down South for some time. I even have a photo of her on New England shed, so I can justify this particular bit of nostalgia.

[LNERGE]

The 1960 sectional appendix shows a few interesting bits and pieces for Peterborough. Down trains of 12 coaches or more had to be assisted in rear when departing on the down main. Additionally trains for 11 coaches where sleeping cars were included in the formation could be also.

 

Working in wrong direction is authorised on the up main between Crescent Junction and Peterborough North but the vehicles must be drawn. Working in wrong direction is authorised also between Spital Junction and Arcade Loop Line and Arcade siding.

 

There are a few other mentions too. I'll be happy to forward the instructions if you want.

[great northern]

The 1960 sectional appendix shows a few interesting bits and pieces for Peterborough. Down trains of 12 coaches or more had to be assisted in rear when departing on the down main. Additionally trains for 11 coaches where sleeping cars were included in the formation could be also.

 

Working in wrong direction is authorised on the up main between Crescent Junction and Peterborough North but the vehicles must be drawn. Working in wrong direction is authorised also between Spital Junction and Arcade Loop Line and Arcade siding.

 

There are a few other mentions too. I'll be happy to forward the instructions if you want.

 

Thanks Richard, more fascinating information. I knew about bi directional working on the Up main, but not that vehicles had to be drawn. I had no idea about the Arcade though. As to the banking, I did know that too, but I'm still trying to work out how I could do it in practice, unless I have one pilot engine with no front coupling just for that purpose. Other than that, it's much easier to do with DCC of course. I'll take you up on your kind offer re the instructions please. You keep coming up with absolute gems of detail about the strange workings of this most peculiar station, where as far as I can see most of the "normal" rules didn't apply. Still, I suppose the overrriding need was to keep things running, despite all the problems caused by the layout, so common sense prevailed, provided safety wasn't really compromised. Never be allowed now of course.