Peterborough North

[31A]

3 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

As for the time taken to have the passengers board the train could be speeded up if the train was in two halves and once loaded one half was pulled into the tunnel and reversed on to the other one, but the station throat would have still be blocked.

 

I think I've read that that is exactly what they did do with the very long trains during wartime.  I suppose it might have still been worth doing if they could work a single big train with one loco and crew, saving a path and resources compared with running two separate trains.  I would imagine the timetable went out of the window in the circumstances!

 

[great northern]

4 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

I think I've read that that is exactly what they did do with the very long trains during wartime.  I suppose it might have still been worth doing if they could work a single big train with one loco and crew, saving a path and resources compared with running two separate trains.  I would imagine the timetable went out of the window in the circumstances!

 

Thanks Steve. I thought I'd read that too, but I wasn't totally sure.

[LNER4479]

7 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

I suppose it might have still been worth doing if they could work a single big train with one loco and crew, saving a path and resources compared with running two separate trains.  I would imagine the timetable went out of the window in the circumstances!

 

Yes, that is the key point - saving a path. Top priority - very obviously - was for vital goods traffic transporting materials, supplies, armaments and goodness know what else. Hence the famous 'is your journey really necessary?' posters. The ECML was particularly constricted because there was still the double-track section through Hadley Wood at the time.

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by LNER4479

[31A]

16 minutes ago, great northern said:

Thanks Steve. I thought I'd read that too, but I wasn't totally sure.

 

There's a good description of working such a train out of King's Cross in the book "2750 Legend of a Locomotive" (not a book many would have I imagine!), not in wartime, but following a derailment in the loco yard they decide to combine the 4.45pm Newcastle and 5pm Leeds trains to make a 24 coach train, rather than cancel one.  They drew one out of Platform 10 into the tunnel and set it back onto the other train (which is said to be in 12 which is odd as it would have been in the suburban station - may be artistic licence!); then the description covers how the right away is relayed to the train engine inside the tunnel and the train is banked out by the ECS J52.  It's a fictional book but pretty close to reality and written by a railwayman, so it is probably based on a real experience.

 

[drmditch]

Has to be the V2 please. 
Probably the best product of the LNER design team under SNG.

I do like the B16/2 as well. Sensible use of a pre-grouping design

And then the J39 also, although why an improved K2 rather than a small-wheeled K3 wasn't suggested at that time makes for an interesting discussion........

 

[Woodcock29]

I can see reasons why both V4 and K4 could have been included in this pole.

 

Howvever, without doubt the winner ought to be V2. So V2 for me.

Andrew

[2750Papyrus]

10 hours ago, 31A said:

 

There's a good description of working such a train out of King's Cross in the book "2750 Legend of a Locomotive" (not a book many would have I imagine!), not in wartime, but following a derailment in the loco yard they decide to combine the 4.45pm Newcastle and 5pm Leeds trains to make a 24 coach train, rather than cancel one.  They drew one out of Platform 10 into the tunnel and set it back onto the other train (which is said to be in 12 which is odd as it would have been in the suburban station - may be artistic licence!); then the description covers how the right away is relayed to the train engine inside the tunnel and the train is banked out by the ECS J52.  It's a fictional book but pretty close to reality and written by a railwayman, so it is probably based on a real experience.

 

I believe it has been reprinted in paper back format.  A book which did most to stimulate my interest in railways and steam trains.

 

A biography of the author, Henry Charles Webster, was written and published a few years ago and is worth reading.

[great northern]

The J50 has disappeared into the vastness of the yards, which allows the next load of coal to set off for Ferme Park.

 

 

[2750Papyrus]

Having been away for a few days, I have missed several polls! 

 

Though I love the looks of the B17, I would have had to vote for the N2, probably the "most seen" class of locomotive when I was young.  I attended the unveiling of the SNG statue a few years ago and was able to spend some time on the footplate of the preserved N2 and could quite imagine myself driving or firing it up from Stroud Green to Crouch End!  

 

For the current poll, whilst I like the looks and concept of the V4 and appreciate the contribution of the K3s (and K2s) over many years, my choice has to be the V2, surely one of the best all-round UK locomotive designs.

[jwealleans]

11 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

with 26 coaches behind the loco, it would be about 80 yards into Gas Works tunnel.

 

Wasn't there an accident caused by exactly this, when the loco slipped, the train slid backwards and the driver didn't realise in the dark?   ISTR there was quite a nasty impact when the rear end went into the buffer stops.

 

Edit - found it and not quite.  the train (17 on)  started short of Gasworks but slipped and slid backwards once inside it.   A signalman tried to divert it to avoid a collision but threw the points under the rear carriage which turned over and went into a structure.

 

https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=838

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by jwealleans

[jwealleans]

11 hours ago, 31A said:

the book "2750 Legend of a Locomotive" (not a book many would have I imagine!),

 

It was reissued relatively recently - my copy is only two or three years old.

[jollysmart]

11 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

 

It was reissued relatively recently - my copy is only two or three years old.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2750-Legend-of-a-Locomotive-by-H-C-Webster-illus-R-B-Way-2nd-Edition-Aug-2016/131990829108?epid=26043608934&hash=item1ebb443834:g:WU8AAOSwHMJYGdgd

 

More than 10 copies available £16.99 plus postage.

[great northern]

Runaway poll winner was the V2, with 18 votes. Nothing else really got a look in.

 

And so we come to Gresley goods designs, and a far narrower field of choice. Having very carefully looked through my Ian Allans, I come to the conclusion that there are only four contenders. 01 02 J38 and J50. Unless, of course, Clive knows otherwise. J38, by the way, was classified solely as a freight engine, which surprised me, given its similarity to the J39, but there we are.

[LNER4479]

O2 for me.

 

Quite an exotic type for a freight loco and the prototype No.461 is of course famous as being the first use of the conjugated valve gear.

 

It surprised me when I came to look (as part of the Grantham project) how late on some of the last members of the class were built.

Edited April 21, 2021 by LNER4479

[Jon4470]

Are we allowed the P1?

[great northern]

1 minute ago, Jon4470 said:

Are we allowed the P1?

Yep. Forgot that one. (or two)

[drmditch]

Difficult this - because probably the 'most typical' goods/freight locomotive for the LNER (although perhaps not all areas) would be what became the O4 and it's derivatives.

The one Gresley presumably liked best (because he wanted to build more of them even in the early days of the war) must have been the O2.

 

So - I'll go for the O2 please.

 

(I would have gone for the P1 if ever the Operating department had worked out how to use them properly!) 

[Clive Mortimore]

Dear Mr Greatnorthern

 

I have noticed that the J6 has been omitted. I understand that Sir Nige's built locos were a tad different to Mr Bullyboy's father -in law's.

 

I am still not playing after being disqualified yesterday.

[New Haven Neil]

A difficult one for me, but as a half-Scot, with Scots names, it has to be the J38, which IIRC were all allocated in Jockalia.

[LNER4479]

On 20/04/2021 at 10:58, great northern said:

Now Sir Nigel's most successful mixed traffic design. The runners are as follows:-

 

J6 B16/2 J39 K2 K3 and V2.

 

16 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Dear Mr Greatnorthern

 

I have noticed that the J6 has been omitted. I understand that Sir Nige's built locos were a tad different to Mr Bullyboy's father -in law's.

 

I am still not playing after being disqualified yesterday.

They woz included in yesterday's mixed traffic group, Clive. A victim of their own success presumably, due to their relatively frequent use on passenger trains?

 

C'mon, don't let yourself be beaten - why not suggest the U1? (two O2s joined back-to-back)

Edited April 21, 2021 by LNER4479

[Metropolitan H]

Another vote for the O2.

 

Regards

Chris H

[Mallard60022]

[great northern]

44 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Dear Mr Greatnorthern

 

I have noticed that the J6 has been omitted. I understand that Sir Nige's built locos were a tad different to Mr Bullyboy's father -in law's.

 

I am still not playing after being disqualified yesterday.

But the J6 was included in the mixed traffic poll Clive, as they did quite a lot of passenger work as well as freight. So you could have voted for it yesterday, and then you would not have been disqualified. Actually, you weren't anyway, you could have voted again for something which was allowed. So there,

[2750Papyrus]

I'd really like to vote for the P1 but if the criterion is success, then I have to recognise it was probably ahead of it's time.  I therefore have to vote for the O2.

[Clive Mortimore]

15 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

 

They woz included in yesterday's mixed traffic group, Clive. A victim of their own success presumably, due to their relatively frequent use on passenger trains?

 

C'mon, don't let yourself be beaten - why not suggest the U1? (two O2s joined back-to-back)

No the U1 was useless, the Bromsgrove crews proved that Big Bertha was better, and that was an older Fowler design.