Peterborough North

[DaveF]

Again, after some thought I'll go for the J36.

 

The Atlantic isn a very close second though.

 

David

[New Haven Neil]

The J36 for me again please, plucky little locos.

[Metropolitan H]

Despite the attractions of the J36 and the Reid C10/C11 Atlantics, my vote for the most successful and influential goes to the Dugald Drummond "Abbotsford" - NBR Class M - 4-4-0s (later LNER D27 / D28). While they did not last long beyond the grouping they had set a design precedent for 4-4-0s that served the NBR well and was spread and refined further by Drummond on the Caledonian and LSWR.

 

Regards

Chris H

[Market65]

I’m going with the J36, such an excellent engine.

 

 Rob.

[Sandhole]

Has to be J36.

[jollysmart]

Unlike me I'm with the present crowd on this one, J36.

[jazzer]

On 20/04/2021 at 22:46, 31A said:

 

There's a good description of working such a train out of King's Cross in the book "2750 Legend of a Locomotive" (not a book many would have I imagine!), not in wartime, but following a derailment in the loco yard they decide to combine the 4.45pm Newcastle and 5pm Leeds trains to make a 24 coach train, rather than cancel one.  They drew one out of Platform 10 into the tunnel and set it back onto the other train (which is said to be in 12 which is odd as it would have been in the suburban station - may be artistic licence!); then the description covers how the right away is relayed to the train engine inside the tunnel and the train is banked out by the ECS J52.  It's a fictional book but pretty close to reality and written by a railwayman, so it is probably based on a real experience.

 

Hi Steve, 

Does the book give any explanation of how they did all this ? 
 

Assuming Clives calculations are more or less  correct ( and I have no reason to doubt them), if the loco is in the tunnel , that would not only memes the track circuits up, but the loco would be ahead of the starter signal which means it would have to be flagged off . However it seems highly improbable that a flag man would be allowed to enter the tunnel, so how was the right away communicated to the driver.  Was there some kind of local regulation ? Certainly it’s not something anyone would have the authority to devise on the spot .

 

The other thing that puzzles me if two trains were coupled together is the setting back. The second train would have to be drawn out of the station , almost completely into tunnel and then reversed under the direction of the guard by hand signals but would the driver be able to see the guard satisfactorily from almost a train length inside the  tunnel? If not how did they do it ? It all seems like a very dangerous  manoeuvre to me. 

[sandra]

Got to be the J37. They were strong engines and for me their greatest strength was that I actually saw one at Eliot Junction near Arbroath.

[great northern]

2P waiting for the off.

 

 

and a plonk, we haven't had one for a while. It is entitled "Nowt happening".

 

 

[31A]

2 hours ago, jazzer said:

Hi Steve, 

Does the book give any explanation of how they did all this ? 
 

Assuming Clives calculations are more or less  correct ( and I have no reason to doubt them), if the loco is in the tunnel , that would not only memes the track circuits up, but the loco would be ahead of the starter signal which means it would have to be flagged off . However it seems highly improbable that a flag man would be allowed to enter the tunnel, so how was the right away communicated to the driver.  Was there some kind of local regulation ? Certainly it’s not something anyone would have the authority to devise on the spot .

 

The other thing that puzzles me if two trains were coupled together is the setting back. The second train would have to be drawn out of the station , almost completely into tunnel and then reversed under the direction of the guard by hand signals but would the driver be able to see the guard satisfactorily from almost a train length inside the  tunnel? If not how did they do it ? It all seems like a very dangerous  manoeuvre to me. 

 

The chapter in the book does explain all that, yes.  The driver is asked to go to the phone in the platform inspector's office where he gets his instructions from the District Loco Superintendent.

 

"...2750 pulling out of Number 10 past the coaches of the 5 o'clock standing engineless and forlorn in Number 12, and on through the crossover just in front of the tunnel.  Clearing it, the train stopped and not without causing raised eyebrows and anxious glances from unenlightened passengers set slowly back into 12, the dull thud and bunching coaches indicating a clean lock of the buckeye coupling.  2750 stood in the tunnel - and in it by two coach lengths".

 

How they knew where to stop inside the tunnel isn't said, just that they did, and then set back onto the coaches of the other train.  If the guard was in the rear coach for example (or could see the rear end from where he was), he could have applied the brake when the rear end was clear of the points, or given hand signals to the loco, but that's just my supposition.

 

The fireman asks the driver: "'How are we going to get the "Right Away" in here?'  'A relief guard will come up to us.  Can you see the starting signal for Number 12?'  'Yes, and it's off'."

 

Perhaps some more artistic licence there as King's Cross probably had colour lights by then!  There might have been an "Off" indicator, or I think the roller blind route indicators may have shown the route set on both sides when the signal was clear.  

 

Then they waited.  "Not for long; a thin piping whistle sounded in the darkness of the tunnel and looking back he saw a guard approaching, vigorously waving his green flag.  'Right!' said Clark, arm outstretched.  A short blast on the whistle, answered from the other end; a soft tug on the regulator and the train began to move".

 

It's a semi fictitious book but most of the incidents described sound plausible enough.  The combining of two trains in this case was said to have arisen from a loco derailment, but I have read of that being done with the very long trains worked during wartime and they must have done  it in a similar way.  My edition says 'First Published 1953' so the events of wartime would have been quite recent, but whether that actually happened pre war as well I don't know.  No reason why it couldn't have, though.

 

[great northern]

Thane of Fife gets some passenger work, instead of all the parcels duty it has been employed on recently. Its only the 4.19 stopper from KX though, now at journey's end at Platform 6.

 

 

[2750Papyrus]

I have a soft spot for Atlantics and for the current poll am again tempted in that direction.   Romance aside, however, the most successfull NB loco in  terms of numbers and longevity has again to be an 0-6-0, in this case the J36. 

[great northern]

J36 wins the title of most successful design of the NBR with 8 votes.

 

Pop across to the west and tell us the most successful Caledonian design, please.

[30368]

20 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

We had next door's goats visit on Monday.....

 

What an interesting life you lead Clive....

 

How do you fit in any railway modelling? I'm sure you will come up with a creative answer..

 

Thanks for all the laughs! and the music too...

 

J37 it has to be... Thornton Junction shed was full of them and J38's. All those Fife Coal trains relied on these two classes.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[David Bell]

439 class 0-4-4T

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, 30368 said:

 

What an interesting life you lead Clive....

 

How do you fit in any railway modelling? I'm sure you will come up with a creative answer..

 

Thanks for all the laughs! and the music too...

 

J37 it has to be... Thornton Junction shed was full of them and J38's. All those Fife Coal trains relied on these two classes.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

Hi Richard

 

It all comes down to part of my means of living with depression. Reflect on events, you cannot change the past but you pull out the good bits and try not to worry on the bad. As for railway modelling that comes and goes with my mood. I am at my most creative as I build up to a bad patch, not sure if that is a good or bad thing. The worse is when I am not in a bad mood but can't be bothered with toy trains, what a waste of time.

[Flying Fox 34F]

16 hours ago, jazzer said:

Hi Steve, 

Does the book give any explanation of how they did all this ? 
 

Assuming Clives calculations are more or less  correct ( and I have no reason to doubt them), if the loco is in the tunnel , that would not only memes the track circuits up, but the loco would be ahead of the starter signal which means it would have to be flagged off . However it seems highly improbable that a flag man would be allowed to enter the tunnel, so how was the right away communicated to the driver.  Was there some kind of local regulation ? Certainly it’s not something anyone would have the authority to devise on the spot .

 

The other thing that puzzles me if two trains were coupled together is the setting back. The second train would have to be drawn out of the station , almost completely into tunnel and then reversed under the direction of the guard by hand signals but would the driver be able to see the guard satisfactorily from almost a train length inside the  tunnel? If not how did they do it ? It all seems like a very dangerous  manoeuvre to me. 

Jazzer,

 

I realise you are debating the details in a book, but my post about Driver Skerritt and the V2 seems to have instigated this.

The main piece of evidence in my post is the event was recorded in World War 2.  I may be wrong, but I’m sure I’ve read it was 1944.

During wartime many regulations were adjusted to suit the situation the country was in.  
Another example is a comment by Frank Dyer in an early edition of the MRJ.  He stated he had once observed a passenger train of considerable length with a four wheel open wagon in the middle of the rake?  At a minimum the wagon would have had to have a Through Vacuum Pipe, if not full automatic brakes!

Even today, we have situations arise that can challenge the best students of Rules and Regs.

 

Paul

[30368]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

It all comes down to part of my means of living with depression. Reflect on events, you cannot change the past but you pull out the good bits and try not to worry on the bad.

 

Hi Clive,

 

Amen to that. I have some personel and clinical experience of the condition. Keep up the really good and entertaining work that you share with us all. We kind of know that railway modelling is a waste of time at one level but its value, thanks to people like you, is incalculable. I note the contradiction but life is like that.

 

Kind regards and thanks.

 

Richard B

 

PS Thought about a PM but since you were brave enough to share your thoughts I thought I would too.

 

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, 30368 said:

 

Hi Clive,

 

Amen to that. I have some personel and clinical experience of the condition. Keep up the really good and entertaining work that you share with us all. We kind of know that railway modelling is a waste of time at one level but its value, thanks to people like you, is incalculable. I note the contradiction but life is like that.

 

Kind regards and thanks.

 

Richard B

 

PS Thought about a PM but since you were brave enough to share your thoughts I thought I would too.

 

Hi Richard

 

I am sure people will like to here the second situation not the first. Normally when I wake up the first thing that goes through my mind is "Oh (not an RMweb word) I am still alive".

 

Much better to say I was dreaming I was on a beach following two nice bottoms when I heard "Woof Woof". So I jumped out of bed in a rush to get Pluto out into the garden before he wet the floor, and hopefully enough time left for me to get to the loo before I wet the floor.....sod this getting old and having diuretic tablets.  Mrs M got there first today and she just beat me to the loo so I had to run very fast to the other one.

 

 

As for Caledonian Railway locos it has to be the River Class they bought off the Highland Railway.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Clive Mortimore

[sandra]

For the Caledonian Railway I’m going to vote for the River class they bought from the Highland Railway. I once read a little known fact about the CR. Apparently of all the pre-grouping companies more of their locomotives survived to reach BR than any other company. Apparently, and rather surprisingly considering electrification, the LBSCR came second. The locomotives of some companies such as the North Staffs were wiped out entirely.

[LNER4479]

I'm going to go for my previous nomination when we had a very similar poll - Dunalistair 4-4-0. Pointed the way forward with larger, higher pressure boiler.

[2750Papyrus]

3 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Mrs M got there first today and she just beat me to the loo so I had to run very fast to the other one.

 

 

Two loos le trek?

[FarrMan]

I will support Clive on this one. River Class.

 

Lloyd

[great northern]

Next on the Up, Abbotsford with the Queen of Scots.

 

 

 

 

[Metropolitan H]

Another vote for the "River" class 4-6-0.

 

Regards

Chris H