Peterborough North

[great northern]

Just a thought, but supposing the lamp irons WERE made from staples, would these be of any use incorporated into a lamp?

http://stores.ebay.c...fsub=2650870017

 

Or are they still too big?

 

Scratchbuilding something this small would be way beyond me Jeff. I think it falls into the same bracket as couplings. No-one has yet come up with a really convincing solution, so we have to do the best we can with what is available.

[great northern]

Especially considering a mere stones throw away is acres of wasteland that could accomodate a large chain hotel, with the GN hotel keeping its business clientéle. I digress though, have you developed your model of teh GN hotel since the last pics I saw?

 

No more progress on the station forecourt yet, though I'm looking forward to modelling the hotel garden eventually. The building itself had to be yet another compromise. I can't hope to model the extension, so I could either have asked Gravy Train just to do a blank back to what we can get in, or have some entirely fictitious detail. As it is very prominent when viewing from the operating well I decided on the latter. Another no win situation I guess, but I prefer it this way.

[workev2000]

No more progress on the station forecourt yet, though I'm looking forward to modelling the hotel garden eventually. The building itself had to be yet another compromise. I can't hope to model the extension, so I could either have asked Gravy Train just to do a blank back to what we can get in, or have some entirely fictitious detail. As it is very prominent when viewing from the operating well I decided on the latter. Another no win situation I guess, but I prefer it this way.

 

Do I detect a half-empty comment there?

 

You are setting yourself incredibly high standards and compromise will always be there. Accept it and move on.

 

Ian

 

PS I know a man who can help with Signal Interlocking and DCC operation....

[great northern]

Not much photography today, and concentrating mainly on the vexed question of lamps.

 

 

This is the Down White Rose, actually carrying the headboard for once, if you can make it out. I've had a go at the lamps - the near side one has had quite a big application of powder, but still looks a bit bright, while the other one has been toned down with marker pen. What do you think?

 

 

I'm also belatedly starting to photograph and archive on disc all of my locos and kit built stock for insurance purposes. This will mean a lot of loco portraits like this one, so I'll share at least some of them. Tracery was one of the star A3's, one of only two to exceed 2.5 million miles. It's hard to understand therefore why she spent time on the GC in the '50's, as the ones that went there weren't generally among the best. She got a double kylchap very early, again the circumstances being unusual, as it was done when in Plant for a casual repair, and as quite a high mileage loco. Did Top Shed get special treatment for one of their favourites? All the rest as far as I can see got them when in for a general overhaul.

 

 

Finally, here's one of Springside's LMS lamps, which is much smaller. I'm reliably informed in fact that it's too small. It seems therefore that there is no reason why they can't be made smaller, so why is the BR one over scale? Never mind.

[Coldgunner]

Still can't tell its in fact OO rather than EM or P4. The quality of the trackwork is a fantastic visual distraction.

[The Stationmaster]

The lamps definitely look better for a spot of 'grime'. The LM lamps were smaller than the BR version - but not, I think, that small. Part of the problem is the over-prominant handles and they were usually dirtier than the lamp body as they tended to be grabbed by Shunters with mucky gloves (and then by enginemen using a handful of waste to avoid getting covered in the Shunter's muck. You could of course quite legitimately use Eastern pattern lamps - I have a picture I took in 1958 of a very clean 60158, 'Aberdonian', at speed (and with a lot of youthful camera shake/shutter lag alas) sporting a pair of very grubby Eastern pattern lamps.

[great northern]

Do I detect a half-empty comment there?

 

You are setting yourself incredibly high standards and compromise will always be there. Accept it and move on.

 

Ian

 

PS I know a man who can help with Signal Interlocking and DCC operation....

 

Not really Ian. I knew from the start I couldn't do this to scale, or anywhere near for that matter. I wasn't intending to be negative, just registering that whatever decision I made would be "wrong" from a pedant's point of view. Anyway, i think I've chosen the best option. Love the postscript. Please tell me more....... soon!

[workev2000]

Oh I do like a grimy A3; they just look the part dont they? The Springside lamps are just not right; but seeing that they are the only ones currently available what choice do you have?

 

Personally I think they are both still too white; the powders are not enough; have you tried Oil paints (Winsor and Newton water based Oils)? I have found for weathering they are better than acrylics if you dont want to use enamels. They also stay wet long enough to get it right.

 

Your first picture of 60059 draws you to the lamps all the time, and away from the great weathering of the loco. Ask whoever does your weathring, if its not you ask what paints and techniques they use and try and use the same.

 

I'll email you re the signal interlockiing; might be tomorrow moving on to Dubai early in the morning!

 

Ian

[jonny777]

Not much photography today, and concentrating mainly on the vexed question of lamps.

 

 

This is the Down White Rose, actually carrying the headboard for once, if you can make it out. I've had a go at the lamps - the near side one has had quite a big application of powder, but still looks a bit bright, while the other one has been toned down with marker pen. What do you think?

 

 

I'm also belatedly starting to photograph and archive on disc all of my locos and kit built stock for insurance purposes. This will mean a lot of loco portraits like this one, so I'll share at least some of them. Tracery was one of the star A3's, one of only two to exceed 2.5 million miles. It's hard to understand therefore why she spent time on the GC in the '50's, as the ones that went there weren't generally among the best. She got a double kylchap very early, again the circumstances being unusual, as it was done when in Plant for a casual repair, and as quite a high mileage loco. Did Top Shed get special treatment for one of their favourites? All the rest as far as I can see got them when in for a general overhaul.

 

 

Finally, here's one of Springside's LMS lamps, which is much smaller. I'm reliably informed in fact that it's too small. It seems therefore that there is no reason why they can't be made smaller, so why is the BR one over scale? Never mind.

 

I love the photos, and am amazed how much detail and depth of field you get with what does not appear to be extra lighting.

A little more dirt and grime on the ballast and I would have difficulty telling the photo of the Standard and K3 from a real photo by Keith Pirt.

[davidw]

 

What do you think?

 

Beautiful A3!

[Coldgunner]

I still think I prefer BR A3's with the trough style deflectors. That being said the weathering is realistically subtle.

[workev2000]

I love the photos, and am amazed how much detail and depth of field you get with what does not appear to be extra lighting.

A little more dirt and grime on the ballast and I would have difficulty telling the photo of the Standard and K3 from a real photo by Keith Pirt.

 

Now that is great praise. I love KP's work, he was my inspiration for choosing Grantham, along with 61070's thread on lner.info forum.

 

Blimey, I can see Gilbert at next year's BAFTA's at this rate; you, Brad and George what a line up

 

Ian

[great northern]

I love the photos, and am amazed how much detail and depth of field you get with what does not appear to be extra lighting.

A little more dirt and grime on the ballast and I would have difficulty telling the photo of the Standard and K3 from a real photo by Keith Pirt.

 

Well, that takes my breath away a bit! More weathering of ballast is I think about number 23 on my list of "little" jobs to be done, but it will be done.....eventually. No extra lighting used, but it's a very good camera, and a South facing room with three large windows gives plenty of light. In fact if you look closely you can see that in place it gives rather too much of it.

[great northern]

Now that is great praise. I love KP's work, he was my inspiration for choosing Grantham, along with 61070's thread on lner.info forum.

 

Blimey, I can see Gilbert at next year's BAFTA's at this rate; you, Brad and George what a line up

 

Ian

 

Excuse me Ian, but could I line up next to Angelina Jolie please?

[Theakerr]

To make my Springside lamps a little weathered I dip my thumb and forefinger in black weathering powder and roll the lamp between them. Often happens naturally when I am drilling out the hole.

[HerbertHopkins]

And what's wrong with that?

 

Nothing at all wrong with the lack of profanities or you spending money on your hobbies. There might be a problem with the other issue though!

[gresley]

Not much photography today, and concentrating mainly on the vexed question of lamps.

 

 

This is the Down White Rose, actually carrying the headboard for once, if you can make it out. I've had a go at the lamps - the near side one has had quite a big application of powder, but still looks a bit bright, while the other one has been toned down with marker pen. What do you think?

 

 

I'm also belatedly starting to photograph and archive on disc all of my locos and kit built stock for insurance purposes. This will mean a lot of loco portraits like this one, so I'll share at least some of them. Tracery was one of the star A3's, one of only two to exceed 2.5 million miles. It's hard to understand therefore why she spent time on the GC in the '50's, as the ones that went there weren't generally among the best. She got a double kylchap very early, again the circumstances being unusual, as it was done when in Plant for a casual repair, and as quite a high mileage loco. Did Top Shed get special treatment for one of their favourites? All the rest as far as I can see got them when in for a general overhaul.

 

 

Finally, here's one of Springside's LMS lamps, which is much smaller. I'm reliably informed in fact that it's too small. It seems therefore that there is no reason why they can't be made smaller, so why is the BR one over scale? Never mind.

 

Gilbert,

 

I have been studying various photos and have discovered something which appears to have been overlooked. (It's usuallly the case that the answer is so simple, nobody sees it !!) I happen to have a packet of Springside LNER Loco lamps (Cat No DA 5), bought some 20+years ago. They differ from the BR lamps (Cat No DA 19) in one major item. The handles on the BR lamps go from left to right whereas the handles on the LNER lamps are from front to back. This make them less apparent. If you were then to blacken then somewhat, they would be even less obvious.

 

The photos I have checked all verify this. Whether the Springside Cat Nos quoted still apply I do not know.

 

Regards,

 

Stuart

[gresley]

Gilbert,

 

I have been studying various photos and have discovered something which appears to have been overlooked. (It's usuallly the case that the answer is so simple, nobody sees it !!) I happen to have a packet of Springside LNER Loco lamps (Cat No DA 5), bought some 20+years ago. They differ from the BR lamps (Cat No DA 19) in one major item. The handles on the BR lamps go from left to right whereas the handles on the LNER lamps are from front to back. This make them less apparent. If you were then to blacken then somewhat, they would be even less obvious.

 

The photos I have checked all verify this. Whether the Springside Cat Nos quoted still apply I do not know.

 

Regards,

 

Stuart

 

Gilbert,

 

Further to my last. I have just looked at 3 photos taken in 1960, and the locos are still carrying LNER pattern lamps. Locos are: A4 60028 at Grantham, A3 60110 on Stoke Bank and A1 60134 at Hadley Wood. So, you can safely use LNER pattern lamps for 1958.

 

Stuart

[landscapes]

Good Morning All

 

Great discussion on the cleanliness of loco lamps.

 

I personally like to see locomotive lamps clean and white.

 

Looking through colour photos of LNER locomotives in some of my reference books they seemed to be more of a clean white than a dirty shade of weathered white especially on express locomotives.

 

Like all natural weathering I am sure the lamps are clean when first fitted when a locomotive as it leaves the MPD to start out on its journey, and they get progressively dirty as it completes it's journey just like the loco.

 

When removed lamps I would have though are cleaned and put back into the MPD store and so it starts all over again.

 

Freight loco lamps do seem to be very weathered, but I believe that they still had pride in appearance even with loco lamps in the late fifties.

 

Regards

 

David

[JeffP]

Love the A3, I always thought they suited the GNR coalrail tender.

 

As for favouritism, why not?

 

I know that D9020, Nimbus, was Finsbury Park's favourite Deltic, so why shouldn't a steam loco have been someone else's?

[workev2000]

Excuse me Ian, but could I line up next to Angelina Jolie please?

 

You and everybody else.....

 

[great northern]

Gilbert,

 

I have been studying various photos and have discovered something which appears to have been overlooked. (It's usuallly the case that the answer is so simple, nobody sees it !!) I happen to have a packet of Springside LNER Loco lamps (Cat No DA 5), bought some 20+years ago. They differ from the BR lamps (Cat No DA 19) in one major item. The handles on the BR lamps go from left to right whereas the handles on the LNER lamps are from front to back. This make them less apparent. If you were then to blacken then somewhat, they would be even less obvious.

 

The photos I have checked all verify this. Whether the Springside Cat Nos quoted still apply I do not know.

 

Regards,

 

Stuart

 

Thanks Stuart. As it happens I could only get the LNER type when I last ordered some, so I shall be fitting some more when I can summon up enthusiasm to start drilling them out.I will then also try some more weathering ideas, and in particular Theakerr's useful tip.

You and everybody else.....

 

 

No Ian, you have to have more than 100,000 posts.

Edited February 14, 2012 by great northern

[great northern]

Love the A3, I always thought they suited the GNR coalrail tender.

 

As for favouritism, why not?

 

I know that D9020, Nimbus, was Finsbury Park's favourite Deltic, so why shouldn't a steam loco have been someone else's?

 

I agree about the GN tender Jeff, they look really good with it. I presume engines became "favourites" because they were particularly good ones. There's plenty of evidence that performance between members of a Class could vary considerably - Dominion of Canada is always mentioned as the worst of Top shed's locos till the double kylchap was fitted. I've always found it a bit strange that some locos were apparently always "good uns" and others were always poor, given that a major overhaul often resulted in replacement of a lot of vital parts. One would think that might have cured any problems, or transferred them to another loco, but apparently not. It would be very interesting if someone in the know would now spill the beans and tell us which ones were the real dogs!

[workev2000]

Thanks Stuart. As it happens I could only get the LNER type when i last ordered some, so I shall be fitting some more when I can summon up enthusiasm to start drilling them out.I will then also tyr some more weathering ideas, and in particular Theakerr's useful tip. No Ian, you have to have more than 100,000 posts.

 

Now, don't get all elitist on us.....

 

You know you started off this thread all humble and quiet; I fear the fame is already turning your head and your aspirations seem to be getting a little too high.....

[great northern]

Good Morning All

 

Great discussion on the cleanliness of loco lamps.

 

I personally like to see locomotive lamps clean and white.

 

Looking through colour photos of LNER locomotives in some of my reference books they seemed to be more of a clean white than a dirty shade of weathered white especially on express locomotives.

 

Like all natural weathering I am sure the lamps are clean when first fitted when a locomotive as it leaves the MPD to start out on its journey, and they get progressively dirty as it completes it's journey just like the loco.

 

When removed lamps I would have though are cleaned and put back into the MPD store and so it starts all over again.

 

Freight loco lamps do seem to be very weathered, but I believe that they still had pride in appearance even with loco lamps in the late fifties.

 

Regards

 

David

 

The problem is though Peter that what is right at full size can look wrong on the model, and sadly these lamps always do look not quite right to me. I'm sure the fact that they are overscale has a lot to do with it. They do, as has recently been pointed out. tend to draw attention to themselves rather than the loco. As you say, nothing stayed pristine for long on the old railway, especially on a murky day, so gleaming white would not have survived for long, especially in the hands of people doing a dirty job.