Z21 queries

[Izzy]

I've now invested in a Z21 and there are a couple of queries I have that I can't find answers for. I should add that I had it up and running without issue and managed to find answers to the issues of sorting the loco library in the order I want - once I populate it! - and sharing it with other devices/backing it up.

 

But I can't find out whether the orange light that flashes continuously on the TP link router is correct. Is it just an indication there is no internet connection? Can it be turned off?  I have had no issues connecting through it so I guess so, but it would be nice to know. 

 

Secondly in the maintainence tool there is the option to alter the short circuit track response. But no details of what the range means. It's set to the left at 'normal'. the bar has the figure 20 in the middle, and 'fast' at the right hand limit. It says this adjustment is useful for N gauge. Do they mean set at 'fast'? Is this a lower voltage trip level? Confusingly there is also separate adjustment for the B-BUS but this has 5 as the middle figure. Sadly there is no mention of what the range of adjustment delivers. Does anybody know?

 

many thanks,

 

Bob

Edited February 24 by Izzy

[jpendle]

The orange light means that you're not connected to the Internet. That's normal, you shouldn't be connected to the Internet.

 

I've never adjusted the other 2. You would only need to alter the short circuit response time if your Z21 were tripping before a short circuit device attached to your bus tripped.

 

The B Bus stuff is only relevant if you have a separate booster attached to the B-Bus.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[Izzy]

17 hours ago, jpendle said:

The orange light means that you're not connected to the Internet. That's normal, you shouldn't be connected to the Internet.

 

I've never adjusted the other 2. You would only need to alter the short circuit response time if your Z21 were tripping before a short circuit device attached to your bus tripped.

 

The B Bus stuff is only relevant if you have a separate booster attached to the B-Bus.

 

Regards,

 

John P

 

Thanks. I guess the no internet warning is the downside of using a generic router rather than a dedicated one. No doubt I'll get used to it all but I wish they gave a bit more info on the various options. I'm still trying to work out all the loco library options.  Having multiple layout sets is one way I've discovered. Sadly I've lost the RMweb thread detailing how to sort individual libraries into the order preferred rather than how they were loaded. I thought I knew how it worked but apparently not. Or I can't get it too. That I'm swapping between android and apple devices of different screen sizes trying to sort it out probably doesn't help, nor that the guides all seem to use the previous app rather than the latest version. 

 

Bob

[Neils WRX]

I must be honest I prefer the previous version of the APP. I use the old version for Belgian MPD and the new App for the Czech layout.

 

I would like to be able to change the Czech layout to the old APP but I’d have to recreate the loco library of 40+ locos and redo all the point control.

 

The route setting is great and a major selling point for me. It’s so easy to use and get to work.

 

Any questions please ask.

 

Thanks,

 

Neil

[Izzy]

I have looked at the old app, which is still available for apple but not for android, but do prefer the latest version. Perhaps it's what you get used to. I've also now managed to work out how to alter the loco library order. Press the pen symbol in vehicles and then hold down your finger over the menu on the right and move up/down. The menu is hard to see and if you just touch it then the next screen pops up. I do think the legibility of some aspects could be better. Like so many apps once you work them out it all seems so easy ........

 

Now to try and load images ......

 

Bob

[jpendle]

The biggest and perhaps only complaint I have about the app is that it's meant to be intuitive and as a result there are no instructions.

 

I just take photos of my locos when they arrive and I'm programming them for the first time, but it helps that the Z21 was the first system that I bought.

 

And if you haven't already played around with the Normal/Differential steering control in the app settings you should. I always have mine set to differential so I don't need to look at my phone while driving to see what position the slider is in.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[WIMorrison]

Have you checked the webpages for the Z21 system? There are several videos there about the app and oodles of documentation for the whole Z21 system, plus the FAQs cover lots and lots of questions. Finally Roco is actually very helpful if you email them.

 

Though for 99.9% of the time it is simply switch on and use 

Edited February 25 by WIMorrison

[Izzy]

2 hours ago, jpendle said:

 

  ……but it helps that the Z21 was the first system that I bought.

 

And if you haven't already played around with the Normal/Differential steering control in the app settings you should. I always have mine set to differential so I don't need to look at my phone while driving to see what position the slider is in.

 

Regards,

 

John P

Since 2010 I’ve used a Prodigy PA2 alongside a Sprog with which I do all programming so the comparisons are interesting. The main benefits are the ease of control with sound locos in respect to functions, no hassle trying to remember what each particular locos are, and the adjustments such as track power levels etc. indeed it was the latter which was one major impetus to get the Z21. 

 

I have discovered the difference in control with the slider with as you say the differential being much better. It’s perhaps surprising there are no alternative throttle options as with JMRI/Engine Driver/ WiThrottle, speed steps etc. but perhaps the slider is considered more than adequate on its own. Those who don’t like it having options for various handsets with rotary controls. 
 

One very slight downside I have encountered is that it appears the system doesn’t provide bi-direction signals ( I think that’s the correct term) as the Prodigy. So now locos fitted with the early Hornby TTS diesel chips will only work one way around on the track. Nothing is ever perfect is it?

 

Bob

[smokebox]

I think the early TTS chips were faulty.  They could be returned for reprogramming. 

[WIMorrison]

40 minutes ago, Izzy said:

One very slight downside I have encountered is that it appears the system doesn’t provide bi-direction signals ( I think that’s the correct term) as the Prodigy. So now locos fitted with the early Hornby TTS diesel chips will only work one way around on the track. Nothing is ever perfect is it?

can you explain this more please? The Z21 and Z21 app will control locos in both directions, as it will with any hand throttle connected.

[Izzy]

40 minutes ago, smokebox said:

I think the early TTS chips were faulty.  They could be returned for reprogramming. 

Yes, but as they worked okay on the Prodigy I didn’t bother. Totally forgot about the issue until now. 

 

9 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

can you explain this more please? The Z21 and Z21 app will control locos in both directions, as it will with any hand throttle connected.

As said above it was an issue with the early TTS decoders which would only work one way around on certain systems. Something about them only reading signals in one direction whereas decoders generally read them both ways. Apparently this also applies to DCC systems. Some send bi-directional, others don’t. I think I have this correct. So on directional systems these particular decoders had to match the signal direction from the system otherwise it seemed the decoder was dead/faulty and wouldn’t work, which they were in comparison to others. For a while today I couldn’t work out why these locos wouldn’t work as I tried to enter them into the loco library. Thankfully it occurred to me just as I was about to strip the first one down…..

 

Bob

[WIMorrison]

Sorry, but I still don't understand what this directional/bi-directional reference means 😒

[Nigelcliffe]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

I have discovered the difference in control with the slider with as you say the differential being much better. It’s perhaps surprising there are no alternative throttle options as with JMRI/Engine Driver/ WiThrottle, speed steps etc. but perhaps the slider is considered more than adequate on its own. Those who don’t like it having options for various handsets with rotary controls. 

 

If you want control via JMRI, and thus EngineDriver/WiThrottle,   then its available: 
https://www.jmri.org/help/en/html/hardware/roco/z21/index.shtml

 

 

15 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

Sorry, but I still don't understand what this directional/bi-directional reference means 😒

 

I think it translates as this:

 

1 hour ago, smokebox said:

I think the early TTS chips were faulty.  They could be returned for reprogramming. 

 

 

 

[Izzy]

13 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

Have you checked the webpages for the Z21 system? There are several videos there about the app and oodles of documentation for the whole Z21 system, plus the FAQs cover lots and lots of questions. Finally Roco is actually very helpful if you email them.

 

Though for 99.9% of the time it is simply switch on and use 

Yes, thanks, I have tried to read up all I could find on the system. Both before I obtained it, just to make sure I was making the right choice, and since. Much of the emphasis seems to be on getting things all connected up in the first place. This I found very simple and easy. Up and working in 5-10mins with either the cheap dedicated android phone I bought to use just as a throttle (Redmi A1 £59 Curry’s) or my iPhone/ipad. 
 

I will contact Roco with my query re the short circuit setting, thanks for the suggestion. It would be nice to know for just reference if nothing else.

 

Bob

[WIMorrison]

Bob,

 

I have found over the many years of operating using a Z21 and their boosters that using the defaults is perfectly adequate and other than running the track from the boosters and the accessories from the Z21 I haven’t needed to change a single setting.

 

Using the defaults proved extremely useful at one exhibition when a power cut at an exhibition caused other layouts to loose custom settings in various devices because I was using the defaults everything came back up and ran perfectly as soon as the power was restored 😀

[jamesed]

3 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

Bob,

 

I have found over the many years of operating using a Z21 and their boosters that using the defaults is perfectly adequate and other than running the track from the boosters and the accessories from the Z21 I haven’t needed to change a single setting.

 

Using the defaults proved extremely useful at one exhibition when a power cut at an exhibition caused other layouts to loose custom settings in various devices because I was using the defaults everything came back up and ran perfectly as soon as the power was restored 😀

 

Ditto.

 

Both my Z21 and my club's Z21 use the default settings and I've never found there to be any need to change that.  The default trip time seems to be just about as right as it could be. 

 

There's a lot to be said for interchangeability. Because there is no layout programming stored in the Z21 itself you can always swap one unit over for another if using default settings.  Quite recently we lent our club Z21 to Peco for a couple of days as they had a problem with a Z21 being used on a demonstration layout. It was a seemless swap for them and got them back up and running quickly. 

 

Using the Z21 and Z21 App is extremely intuitive despite being a very powerful control system, given its capabilities. 

[Izzy]

I fully understand that for most users the default settings for track power and CB will work just fine, and I'm grateful  for the comments. However I actually chose the Z21 with the express purpose of using lower track levels and - hopefully - lower amp ratings for the CB. I presume the fast setting trips at a lower amp level. It's the parameters of the latter that I would like to find more details of. This is in connection with a subject that I won't expand upon here.  So in this respect it's an experiment that might or not prove of benefit to me, only time will tell. 

 

What I can say is that irrespective of that I already find that obtaining the Z21 is not something I regret. That I got it for less than I paid for the Prodigy all those years ago was just a bonus. I actually picked it up in person from my nearest/local railway model shop, Scograil, who retail them for a special price. They are in the same unit as Coastal DCC and Orwell Model railways in Ipswich so it's very handy.

 

Bob

[WIMorrison]

Faster is generally quicker in terms of the time taken for something tripping, not a lower current value  - what  is CB?

[carlwooduk]

Hopefully there is a Z21 Wlanmaus expert on the forum that can help please with an issue I am stuck on.

 

I have set up my Z21 black and it  works fine on my Ipad and Laptop using JMRI. So far so good. I have a WLANmaus and when I turn that on, the screen only shows in German NEU ? and LOK 1.

I am seeking to get the Language options up to set it to English before doing the wi fi connection

 

My attempts to reset  by pressing Menu and  shift simultaneously  and a brief press on OK to return to factory reset  turn the unit off , no sign of a Lauguage menu option ;  when I turn it back on it shows the same NEU ? or LOK 1.

 

I can access all the Menus 1- 8 that are in German is there a solution going into one of those?

 

My search on line of the  manual and other tips have not led to a solution; any ideas folks?

 

 

[WIMorrison]

Page 69 of the manual here - Z21 WLANMAUS Manual (DE, EN)

 

 

 

Look at the numbers at the bottom of the screen and then you will know you are in the correct place irrespective of whatever language you are looking at now.

 

This is the German equivalent of the above (page 26 in the link).

 

Edited February 26 by WIMorrison

[Izzy]

58 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

Faster is generally quicker in terms of the time taken for something tripping, not a lower current value  - what  is CB?

Circuit Breaker

[carlwooduk]

52 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

Page 69 of the manual here - Z21 WLANMAUS Manual (DE, EN)

 

 

 

Look at the numbers at the bottom of the screen and then you will know you are in the correct place irrespective of whatever language you are looking at now.

 

This is the German equivalent of the above (page 26 in the link).

 

Iain, you are a star.  I am now in English so wish me luck on the wi- fi  set up.

[sjrixon]

I've got a Z21, cabled controller and using an Android tablet to control the points. As some others have said, not a huge fan of the android loco controller. It's just doesn't feel as responsive as EngineDriver etc.

 

I moved from JMRI with a Sprog. My main reason is a 1st world problem, it just took too long for the JMRI PC to spin up, being able to just flick the Z21 on and off really does mean I 'play' more often. I also like the physical controller with the Z21, shunting is just so much more enjoyable with a physical wheel!

 

Looking at the Bachmann dcc could be interesting.. ;)

[Izzy]

43 minutes ago, sjrixon said:

I've got a Z21, cabled controller and using an Android tablet to control the points. As some others have said, not a huge fan of the android loco controller. It's just doesn't feel as responsive as EngineDriver etc

I have just discovered the speed curves option in the normal slider position. A similar option to that of speed curves for motor control. That as well as the pre-set ones you can adjust any of them to suit. Stretching the lower values for finer control/ larger movement between speed steps is helpful I have found. I don’t want a tethered handset of any type but I have no idea how responsive the WlanMaus is with its rotary knob. Or even whether it’s a potentiometer or encoder one. It looks like it’s centre off so most probably the former. 

Bob

 

[sjrixon]

2 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I have just discovered the speed curves option in the normal slider position. A similar option to that of speed curves for motor control. That as well as the pre-set ones you can adjust any of them to suit. Stretching the lower values for finer control/ larger movement between speed steps is helpful I have found. I don’t want a tethered handset of any type but I have no idea how responsive the WlanMaus is with its rotary knob. Or even whether it’s a potentiometer or encoder one. It looks like it’s centre off so most probably the former. 

Bob

 

I've always had mine on Differential.. So never played with the curve, I'll take a look.

 

I assume, the WlanMaus is the same as the red physical one, so it's centre off.