Padstow traffic 2024

[KDG]

A what if.....

 

What if the Padstow branch had remained open, was still connected to Network Rail?  Which services would still arrive and depart? Would there be any remaining freight traffic?

 

I'd like to think First Great Western would roster a sleeper service from Paddington, perhaps arriving on weekend mornings. Twice daily HST's from London, Voyagers from the NW / NE, Sprinters from Plymouth and Penzance.

 

In my mind, there's a weekly freight flow of dredged sea sand in box wagons too.

 

Anyone else have any ideas, thoughts, or suggestions? (don't fret about the finances of it)

[Mol_PMB]

A couple of run-down sprinters wheezing back and forth, usually missing the connections with the main-line trains (if they run at all). Perhaps the promise of an even older recycled D-stock train with batteries underneath, if they ever get it working? In the meantime, it'll be a bus substitution that takes twice as long as the train ought to, and won't carry any bikes/pushchairs/wheelchairs/luggage.

 

As for non-passenger services, you might hope that the RHTT unit visits a couple of times a week in the autumn and the TRU once a year.

 

Or are things better in the south west than they are in the north west?

[phil-b259]

18 minutes ago, KDG said:

A what if.....

 

What if the Padstow branch had remained open, was still connected to Network Rail?  Which services would still arrive and depart? Would there be any remaining freight traffic?

 

I'd like to think First Great Western would roster a sleeper service from Paddington, perhaps arriving on weekend mornings. Twice daily HST's from London, Voyagers from the NW / NE, Sprinters from Plymouth and Penzance.

 

In my mind, there's a weekly freight flow of dredged sea sand in box wagons too.

 

Anyone else have any ideas, thoughts, or suggestions? (don't fret about the finances of it)

 

Given the need to reverse at Bodmin (General) and the constrained station there you can rule out pretty much everything other than 1st or 2nd generation DMUs and ceratinly no through trains*

 

* Though a Voyager might fit you need to remember that before them you had HSTs and 7 coach Mk2 rakes - neither of which would fit at Bodmin. HSTs (and now IETs) to Newquay were (/ are) only possible because the branch infrastructure could cope with them from the outset (i.e. no need to reverse at a short station on route)

 

In 2024 it would be worked by the same units used on the St Ives branch (i.e. a15X DMU) - and in fact given the popularity of both resorts the amount of custom would probably be similar 

 

In terms of freight - its the same story, the need to reverse put significant limits on train lengths while the tightly curved China Clay branch to Wedford Bridge would not accept long wheelbase wagons. Thus the only non-passenger workings you would see would, as with the St Ives branch, be the occasional visit by a weedkilling train in the summer.

 

As such it would be a relatively boring  model, but deffinatly one which would have been worth keeping open  - unlike some of the other routes in the area...

 

 

Edited March 20 by phil-b259

[KDG]

1 minute ago, Mol_PMB said:

A couple of run-down sprinters wheezing back and forth, usually missing the connections with the main-line trains (if they run at all). Perhaps the promise of an even older recycled D-stock train with batteries underneath, if they ever get it working? In the meantime, it'll be a bus substitution that takes twice as long as the train ought to, and won't carry any bikes/pushchairs/wheelchairs/luggage.

 

As for non-passenger services, you might hope that the RHTT unit visits a couple of times a week in the autumn and the TRU once a year.

 

Or are things better in the south west than they are in the north west?

Oh yes, much better. Far less rainy.  Thanks for the reply though. I have my rose-tinted on...

[phil-b259]

3 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

 

Or are things better in the south west than they are in the north west?

 

I get the impression that pre Covid / DfT imposed cuts / Industrial relations collapsing (due to DfT meddling) GWR did actually care about its SW branches plus the condition of their fleets and the management / staff would do their best to put on a decent service using the 15X fleet.

[KDG]

3 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Given the need to reverse at Bodmin (General) and the constrained station there you can rule out pretty much everything other than 1st or 2nd generation DMUs and ceratinly no through trains*

 

* Though a Voyager might fit you need to remember that before them you had HSTs and 7 coach Mk2 rakes - neither of which would fit at Bodmin. HSTs (and now IETs) to Newquay were (/ are) only possible because the branch infrastructure could cope with them from the outset (i.e. no need to reverse at a short station on route)

 

In 2024 it would be worked by the same units used on the St Ives branch (i.e. a15X DMU)

 

In terms of freight - its the same story the need to reverse put significant limits on train lengths - while the tightly curved China Clay branch to Wedford Bridge would not accept long wheelbase wagons. The only non-passenger workings would most be the occasional visit by a weedkilling train in the summer.

 

As such it would be a relatively boring  model....

 

 

Thanks for the reply Phil. In my utopian world, the thing that ended the Padstow branch and other parts of the network didn't happen, and the UK needs and want trains. So the real world constraints you reminded me of aren't there.... in my admittedly contrived plan.

[cctransuk]

5 minutes ago, KDG said:

Oh yes, much better. Far less rainy.  Thanks for the reply though. I have my rose-tinted on...

 

After this winter - rose-tinted? - blindfold, more like!! 🥺

 

CJI (Bodmin).

[phil-b259]

6 minutes ago, KDG said:

Thanks for the reply Phil. In my utopian world, the thing that ended the Padstow branch and other parts of the network didn't happen, and the UK needs and want trains. So the real world constraints you reminded me of aren't there.... in my admittedly contrived plan.

 

The biggest constraint you have (strategic decisions aside) is the need to reverse at Bodmin General on every trip.

 

Even if you plot a different course in terms of politics and rail strategy etc then that constraint isn't going to vanish - its a physical constraint rather than the result of a policy decision and still rule out long trains like full sized HSTs...

 

OK you can imagine infrastructure improvements happened but the more you deviate from reality the less like a model of Padstow it becomes....

 

If you want to model longer trains (and trains with more variety)  then to be honest the Newquay branch is a far better bet if you are looking for a real world location to model.

Edited March 20 by phil-b259

[KDG]

Just now, cctransuk said:

 

After this winter - rose-tinted? - blindfold, more like!! 🥺

 

CJI (Bodmin).

Hi CJI, thanks for the reply. The rose tinted are for the state of the rail network, not the weather lol. Living on a farm, where most of our land is on clay.... you get the picture... had to get the little lambs in the other day, they were so muddy they were cold.

[KDG]

3 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

The biggest constraint you have (strategic decisions aside) is the need to reverse at Bodmin General on every trip.

 

Even if you plot a different course in terms of politics and rail strategy etc then that constraint is still going to limit you and rule out long trains like full sized HSTs...

 

If you want to model the latter in train terms then to be honest the Newquay branch is a far better bet if you are looking for a real world location to model.

Fair point Phil.

[Mol_PMB]

I did a bit of work associated with the Bourne End to Marlow renewals a few years ago. That branch of course also has a reversal with a very short train length limitation. I don't think it's even long enough for two 66s top-and-tailing one ballast wagon. Even so, there were some loco-hauled infrastructure trains to Marlow during the renewals, but they were short and probably a faff to shunt.

[phil-b259]

Oh and just to say I know Padstow was a LSWR / SR terminus but even with the best rose tinted specs you can buy there is simply no way in the world the North Cornwall Railway via Camelford etc would have remained open even with the most optmistic hindsight! You cannot dis-invent the motor car nor expect the UKs road system to be perpetually stuck in the 1920s....

 

If Padstow did keep a rail link it would be in the form of trains to Bodmin Parkway connecting with GWR services not to slow trains meandering through sparsely populated Cornwall and Devon to Oakhampton / Exteter / Waterloo....

[phil-b259]

4 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

I did a bit of work associated with the Bourne End to Marlow renewals a few years ago. That branch of course also has a reversal with a very short train length limitation. I don't think it's even long enough for two 66s top-and-tailing one ballast wagon. Even so, there were some loco-hauled infrastructure trains to Marlow during the renewals, but they were short and probably a faff to shunt.

 

I think Bodmin General is a bit better than Bourne End - I estimate Bodmin General to be able to take about 5 Mk1s and a loco (leaving space for it to run round)

 

A single Voyager unit or one of the shorterned HST sets opperated by GWR would fit too as would 2x 15X or 16X units

Edited March 20 by phil-b259

[Mol_PMB]

Thanks to Pete Robins on Flickr, here's the evidence. The ballast train was 5 autoballasters topped and tailed by 66s, but had to be split in half to shunt at Bourne End.

So there you go, you can run a train that's too long to fit in the reversal!

 

(back to near-reality, be bl00dy glad there aren't any 142s left to inflict on Padstow...)

[Kris]

4 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

I think Bodmin General is a bit better than Bourne End - I estimate Bodmin General to be able to take about 5 Mk1s and a loco (leaving space for it to run round)

 

A single Voyager unit or one of the shorterned HST sets opperated by GWR would fit too as would 2x 15X or 16X units

According to google there is about 550ft between the buffers and the points down to Boscarne junction. 

[Wickham Green too]

15 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

The biggest constraint you have (strategic decisions aside) is the need to reverse at Bodmin General on every trip. ...

Really ? ........ the LSWR and Southern managed to get to Padstow without reversing at Bodmin !

[cctransuk]

56 minutes ago, KDG said:

A what if.....

 

What if the Padstow branch had remained open, was still connected to Network Rail?  Which services would still arrive and depart? Would there be any remaining freight traffic?

 

I'd like to think First Great Western would roster a sleeper service from Paddington, perhaps arriving on weekend mornings. Twice daily HST's from London, Voyagers from the NW / NE, Sprinters from Plymouth and Penzance.

 

In my mind, there's a weekly freight flow of dredged sea sand in box wagons too.

 

Anyone else have any ideas, thoughts, or suggestions? (don't fret about the finances of it)

 

Given the volume of traffic converging on Padstow / Rock / Polzeath in the summer, a Park & Ride service a la St. Ives would be a viable proposition, IMHO - but only as a 'preservation' operation.

 

Running from Boscarne Junction - the current end of the line for the B&WR - to Padstow could command ridership figures to rival the Festiniog & Welsh Highland Railways.

 

There is adequate land adjacent to Boscarne Junction for a P&R carpark - indeed, there is already a limited facility for the Camel Trail.

 

Moreover, immediately adjacent, there is an excellent family pub - the 'Borough Arms'.

 

The site of Padstow Station is a soulless car / coach park, which could readily be transformed back to its original purpose.

 

HOWEVER - the fly-in-the-ointment is two-fold : -

 

i] SUSTRANS had the Boscarne Junction to Padstow trackbed converted to the Camel Trail - and this is a deservedly popular walking and cycling trail. Despite claims to the contrary, there is no realistic possibility of the Camel Trail and a reinstated railway co-existing.

 

ii] the trackbed through Wadebridge has been extensively repurposed - think housing, a Co-op supermarket, a now-vital link road, etc. (The station and goods shed buildings still exist, however).

 

I'm afraid that it is a case of 'If only there had been a little foresight' - but, too late now!

 

The Wenford Bridge Branch - again, a distinct possibility as a preserved railway - think Beattie Well Tanks or small ex-GWR 0-6-0PT / 0-4-2Ts, and converted brakevan chassis for passenger accommodation.

 

But - once again - SUSTRANS got there first, and we are too late!

 

A very great shame, and opportunities lost!

 

CJI.

Edited March 20 by cctransuk

[Rivercider]

12 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Really ? ........ the LSWR and Southern managed to get to Padstow without reversing at Bodmin !

I think that had Padstow managed to retain a rail connection it was always going to be via Bodmin Road, and Bodmin General. The LSWR route to Padstow via Launceston and Wadebridge had been on borrowed time.

Bude would have been a more likely rail survivor in my opinion.

 

cheers

[KDG]

18 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Thanks to Pete Robins on Flickr, here's the evidence. The ballast train was 5 autoballasters topped and tailed by 66s, but had to be split in half to shunt at Bourne End.

So there you go, you can run a train that's too long to fit in the reversal!

 

(back to near-reality, be bl00dy glad there aren't any 142s left to inflict on Padstow...)

Fortunately, I don't have any 4mm 142's.. (too bussy)

[KDG]

11 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Given the volume of traffic converging on Padstow / Rock / Polzeath in the summer, a Park & Ride service a la St. Ives would be a viable proposition, IMHO - but only as a 'preservation' opetation.

 

Running from Boscarne Junction - the current end of the line for the B&WR - to Padstow could command ridership figures to rival the Festiniog & Welah Highland Railways.

 

There is adequate land adjacent to Boscarne Junction for a P&R carpark - indeed, there is already a limited facility for the Camel Trail, along the trackbed.

 

Moreover, immediately adjacent, there is an excellent family pub - the 'Borough Arms'.

 

The site of Padstow Station is a soulless car / coach park, which could readily be transformed back to its original purpose.

 

HOWEVER - the fly-in-the-ointment is two-fold : -

 

i] SUSTRANS had the Boscarne Junction to Padstow trackbed converted to the Camel Trail - and this is a deservedly popular walking and cycling trail. Despite claims to the contrary, there is no realistic possibility of the Camel Trail and a reinstated railway co-existing.

 

ii] the trackbed through Wadebridge has been extensively repurposed - think housing, a Co-op supermarket, a now-vital link road, etc. (The station and goods shed buildings still exist, however).

 

I'm afraid that it is a case of 'If only there had been a little foresight' - but, too late now!

 

The Wenford Bridge Branch - again, a distinct possibility as a preserved railway - think Beattie Well Tanks or small ex-GWR 0-6-0PT / 0-4-2Ts, and converted brakevan chassis for passenger accommodation.

 

But - once again - SUSTRANS got there first, and we are too late!

 

A very great shame, and opportunities lost!

 

CJI.

In the real world that's all correct, in my scheme though, I'm not reinstating services to Padstow, they never stopped.

[phil-b259]

17 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Really ? ........ the LSWR and Southern managed to get to Padstow without reversing at Bodmin !

 

Of course they didn't - but anyone with any degree of sense would realise that the only realistic way Padstow could have ever survived until the present day is as a feeder to the GWR line at Bodmin Parkway.

 

So although obviously people are free to model what they like if you want to produce a convincing model of Padstow as it might be today then you cannot discount the effects of the widespread growth in car ownership or the call for improved roads which that generated, all of which points towards the only rail link having any chance of being retained being through to the GWR

[cctransuk]

Just now, KDG said:

In the real world that's all correct, in my scheme though, I'm not reinstating services to Padstow, they never stopped.

 

In which case, it's just as well that Wadebridge got a bypass - the town traffic in summer is quite bad enough without the railway!

 

However, I prefer your scenario over what was bequeathed to us.

 

CJI.

[LBRJ]

The closest real life modern example, at least for operating purposes, would be the Plymouth to Gunnislake branch.

So nowadays  it would be a steady diet of Class 150 units running  from the mainline at Bodmin Parkway to Padstow via Bodmin General, and back.

Through running from further afield wouldn't be an option unless you totally rebuilt and re-laid Parkway's track layout; let alone the  constraints of platform capacity at General.

I suppose that if it was still there, the line may be suitable for Class 158 operation, so you may also see the odd one of those on the branch.

 

[phil-b259]

1 minute ago, KDG said:

In the real world that's all correct, in my scheme though, I'm not reinstating services to Padstow, they never stopped.

 

Indeed - but that doesn't mean you sit there pretending time stood still in all other respects than they type of trains used!

 

The big 4 and even pre-grouping lines were not adverse to closing lines if they lost too much money - there were a whole load of them in the 1930s after the wall street crash and general economic slump.

 

BR was axing unprofitable lines well before Beeching arrived on the scene too!

 

Even in countries like France which did not have a Beeching like purge lines continued to be shut throughout the 60s, 70s 80s, 90s, 2000s, etc as passenger and freight volumes continued to be abstracted by the car and lorry.

 

SO with respect to Padstow, however you cut it by 2024 the ONLY line that would have ever stood a chance of staying open (and thus what you should be basing your scenario around if you are seeking to portray such a reality)  is the GWR link via Bodmin General.

 

 

[cctransuk]

1 minute ago, LBRJ said:

The closest real life modern example, at least for operating purposes, would be the Plymouth to Gunnislake branch.

So nowadays  it would be a steady diet of Class 150 units running  from the mainline at Bodmin Parkway to Padstow via Bodmin General, and back.

Through running from further afield wouldn't be an option unless you totally rebuilt and re-laid Parkway's track layout; let alone the  constraints of platform capacity at General.

I suppose that if it was still there, the line may be suitable for Class 158 operation, so you may also see the odd one of those on the branch.

 

 

 

For a short period in the 2020s - shortie HSTs to Padstow from Exeter?

 

CJI.