I have approximately 45 point motors to wire and don’t know where to start.

[RikkiGTR]

@ITG yes the entire layout is laid, I ensured there was a hole drilled for each point motor pin as I went around laying the track. I’m unable to flip the boards up though so I will be fixing them in situ. 

[Siberian Snooper]

I would start by making up a local control panel for the fiddleyard, this will get you started. I would then follow up with a local panel for the dock or scrap works. By breaking the layout down into smaller chunks, it becomes less intimidating to wire up.

 

One problem you may encounter is point motors on bridges, you may need to fit the motors remote to the turnouts, unless you can hide them in the piers.

 

 

[Siberian Snooper]

5 minutes ago, RikkiGTR said:

@ITG yes the entire layout is laid, I ensured there was a hole drilled for each point motor pin as I went around laying the track. I’m unable to flip the boards up though so I will be fixing them in situ. 

 

I don't envy you doing all those point motors from underneath, enjoy!

 

[KingEdwardII]

1 hour ago, ITG said:

wiring 45 points upside down under the board is a challenge if you cannot flip the boards.

I installed and wired my 30+ point motors from underneath my boards without much hassle. The main thing is to provide yourself with a good means of support so that you are relatively close to the underside of the boards rather than stretching from the floor. Cushions from an old sofa are one idea...

 

I agree about the need to do all the pre-drilling of holes for the point motors before the turnouts are installed.

 

Yours, Mike.

[BluenGreyAnorak]

When I started to build my layout, garage sized with around 50 or so points, I spent quite a lot of time deciding how I wanted to control it and what those controls should look like as this dictates, to a large degree, how the wiring needs to be arranged. The first control panel I'd ever built was this one, which controls my fiddle yard:

 

 

I wanted it to be as simple to operate as possible and so it works on the basis of route setting. However, the downside to this is that much of it is driven by diode matrices and so inside is rather less sleek:

 

 

It took me a good while to build all of this, which included learning what a diode matrix is and how to build one, and the design directly dictated what the wiring to the points looks like, e.g. those for the two yards incorporate switches for LED indicators whilst those for the junction don't. All of the points are electrofrog and all are switched by frog juicers.

 

Conversely, my control panels for the operational side of the layout use Cobalt point levers as I wanted them to have the look and feel of a signal box:

 

 

The point motors that they control are also different - some are servo and some are slow action - which again dictates the wiring arrangements. With a couple of exceptions, the frog polarities of all of these points are changed by switches in or on the motors. The particular panel above currently controls servo motors so the inside must accommodate that:

 

 

This has taken years to put together and I've, of necessity, had to learn all sorts of new things along the way (which is part of the fun). Electronics isn't part of my day job and I'd never used a soldering iron before embarking on this little adventure.

 

The point I'm slowly getting to here is twofold: firstly, decide early on how you want your layout to be controlled, both in terms of panel design and location and secondly, break it down into manageable chunks so it doesn't feel like a huge, single mountain to climb. Unfortunately, all of this stuff is necessary to make your railway work, so if it really doesn't look like fun, or at least a manageable means to and end task, then you need to reevaluate your plans.

 

Good luck.

Edited April 7 by BluenGreyAnorak

[RikkiGTR]

@Siberian Snooper the “points on the bridge” will not actually be an issue as only the front single line will be a girder bridge - the back mainline will run over another embankment with perhaps a small water outlet below it, so easy enough to disguise the motors. 
 

@BluenGreyAnorak as much as this task is daunting, it’s also extremely exciting as well. I’m not remotely put off by the amount of work ahead of me to realise my ambitions with this layout, and I’ve no doubt that once I start I’ll get my head around it. I’ve just been unsure *where* to start. Your control systems look incredible though, and it’s a lot of inspiration for me. 

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

I don't envy you doing all those point motors from underneath, enjoy!

Been there done that, Tortoises driven by Switch-8s

[BluenGreyAnorak]

9 hours ago, RikkiGTR said:

@BluenGreyAnorak as much as this task is daunting, it’s also extremely exciting as well. I’m not remotely put off by the amount of work ahead of me to realise my ambitions with this layout, and I’ve no doubt that once I start I’ll get my head around it. I’ve just been unsure *where* to start. Your control systems look incredible though, and it’s a lot of inspiration for me. 

Thanks. There are a million ways to do this sort of thing so the key really is to decide what you want out of it. For example, I decided very early on that I wanted LED indication of how points are set and for that indication to be driven by the point motors rather than just the panel. It's a belt and braces approach that results in even more wiring, but makes me happy.

 

One of the things that I found really helped was to keep detailed notes. I spent an age planning the wiring, using a combination of Excel spread sheets and hand drawn diagrams of individual circuits. Given the timespan (first panel built about 8 years ago, final one under construction now), these have proved absolutely invaluable.

 

 

 

How you do it has got to suit you but don't skimp on this stage.

[john new]

19 hours ago, BluenGreyAnorak said:

Thanks. There are a million ways to do this sort of thing so the key really is to decide what you want out of it. For example, I decided very early on that I wanted LED indication of how points are set and for that indication to be driven by the point motors rather than just the panel. It's a belt and braces approach that results in even more wiring, but makes me happy.

 

One of the things that I found really helped was to keep detailed notes. I spent an age planning the wiring, using a combination of Excel spread sheets and hand drawn diagrams of individual circuits. Given the timespan (first panel built about 8 years ago, final one under construction now), these have proved absolutely invaluable.

 

 

 

How you do it has got to suit you but don't skimp on this stage.

I cannot fault the statement above about not skimping on record keeping to aid future fault finding etc. As you are a beginner with regard to layout electrics though the main point from everything above is adopt the KISS principle - by that I mean don’t add in the need to learn other new things over and above the minimum circuit(s) for each device. Good luck with this.

[TomCrewe]

I hope your points are dcc ready? or you may have to take them all up again to mod them!

[RikkiGTR]

43 minutes ago, TomCrewe said:

I hope your points are dcc ready? or you may have to take them all up again to mod them!

Yes I’ve seen a few things about this, but the points seem to be working fine here with no mods unless it’s something that will happen with continued DCC use? 
 

Only issue I’ve noticed so far is when I’ve accidentally run a loco over a point that’s set the wrong way - I get an overload. What else will happen? 

Edited April 8 by RikkiGTR

[PaulCheffus]

17 minutes ago, RikkiGTR said:

Yes I’ve seen a few things about this, but the points seem to be working fine here with no mods unless it’s something that will happen with continued DCC use? 
 

Only issue I’ve noticed so far is when I’ve accidentally run a loco over a point that’s set the wrong way - I get an overload. What else will happen? 

Hi

 

Don’t bother. This advice is generally for OO points. I have sixty unmodified Peco code 55 N gauge points on my layout and have not had any issues in the last twenty years.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Siberian Snooper]

One thing I would do, before fitting, is to solder on lengths of wire to each motor of around 6 inches/150mm and use connection blocks to join them to the main cabling. This saves soldering upside down, helps fault finding and allows easier changing out faulty units.

 

 

[RikkiGTR]

1 hour ago, PaulCheffus said:

Hi

 

Don’t bother. This advice is generally for OO points. I have sixty unmodified Peco code 55 N gauge points on my layout and have not had any issues in the last twenty years.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

Yeah I really didn’t fancy it at this point, they seem to be working fine even if they are manually operated for now. 

 

32 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

One thing I would do, before fitting, is to solder on lengths of wire to each motor of around 6 inches/150mm and use connection blocks to join them to the main cabling. This saves soldering upside down, helps fault finding and allows easier changing out faulty units.

 

 

Yep! Something I had planned to do anyway was do any soldering “above ground” before fitting the motors underneath the base boards. 

[WIMorrison]

3 hours ago, TomCrewe said:

I hope your points are dcc ready? or you may have to take them all up again to mod them!

 

There is no such thing as DCC ready, or even DCC turnouts. You can wire turnouts for better reliability and performance that will improve their use on DC as well as DCC - indeed many people were wiring turnouts in the manner now called 'DCC Ready' 60 years ago (and probably more, I can only vouch for 60 years) and long before anyone had thought of DCC.

Edited April 8 by WIMorrison