Will's Ancient Wagons

[Kits from Somerset]

I believe that someone else brought out some other bodies which were supplied with the MAJ chassis as I built some of those too, Colin Ashby comes to mind but I'm not sure.

 

Regards

Phil Traxson

 

You are correct about Colin Ashby bringing them out, at one stage he had the underframe moulding tools there and had to clean all the rust of them before he could use them.

[Poor Old Bruce]

I still have the models but am steeling myself to sell them in the future as I no longer have a layout of my own to run them on, just can't decide what they are worth to me compared with what I can ask for them. A pretty normal problem I would think

As I have said before, "Nowt's worth owt 'til you want to flog it and then it's only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it". However, you know that I am always interested in decent kit-built wagons (as I know yours are) so can you put me on your list of possible customers when they want a new home.

 

Richard

 

p.s. even though the original moulds may not exist, presumably it's still a breach of copyright to make copies.

[Kits from Somerset]

 

Richard

 

p.s. even though the original moulds may not exist, presumably it's still a breach of copyright to make copies.

 

This will depend how you make the copies, if you are using the sides etc, to make masters for casting yes. But you make a new moulding tool by scaleing of the sides etc no.

[Blenheim]

Thanks for all the comments chaps! I hope to add some updated photos later but in the meantime but first...

 

Too late James! Railmatch Bauxite is a little browner than Halfords' Red Oxide, but it would probably look very similar under a bit of weathering, so thanks for the tip. It would certainly save some time and effort if a couple of coats of primer were all that's required... What do other people think? Is red oxide close enough to Bauxite?

 

Cheers,

 

Will

 

I will vote for Halfords' red oxide spray primer as being too red for "BR freight stock brown/bauxite", but will agree that under a heavy layer of weathering you can probably get away with it. I have found Phoenix Precision "BR Freight Wagon Bauxite (1948-65)" to look quite orange, but that may be because I used grey primer! Humbrol 133 (satin brown) is supposed to be a reasonable match for bauxite if you can still get it, and the Railmatch colour is OK, but not dead flat...

[Worsdell forever]

It seems ABS had them at one time, This is the card from the one I've been working on recently.

 

I would agree, a very good kit.

 

[Kits from Somerset]

It seems ABS had them at one time, This is the card from the one I've been working on recently.

 

I would agree, a very good kit.

 

 

He still owns them. (or what remains of them)

[Poor Old Bruce]

I thought ABS kits were (are) whitemetal. Does that mean they also produced plastic kits as well with totally different production techniques?

[Adam]

I thought ABS kits were (are) whitemetal. Does that mean they also produced plastic kits as well with totally different production techniques?

 

Yep and Adrian has had them for sale in the past, but not recently.

 

Adam

[Invicta]

That blue/white 'ABS Kits' packaging in Paul's pic definitely rings a bell-

 

As I recall, the underframe was available separately- I'd picked up one of these kits (the Loco Coal wagon) second-hand at an exhibition some years back, but had a mishap building it

 

At that time, Dave Cleal at Mainly Trains was still listing some of them in stock, including the L&Y underframe kit (think the roof door van was another one still listed), so I was able to get a replacement chassis- IIRC this would have been around 2002/3-ish.

As I'd included it in an order with quite a few other kits and bits, I didn't order any of the others that were listed at the time. When I tried to order some a couple of months later, they were out of stock.

 

As several people have commented, it's a pity they've fallen by the wayside- from my limited experience, they were nice kits- the loco coal wagon has a legible cast iron plate moulded into the bodyside in a similar fashion to the one-plank.

[jwealleans]

I agree with what's been said about the quality of those MAJ kits - I've built a couple and have another one in the pile. You do still see them on club stands at shows... I bought two at Middlesbrough only last year. This one is the longer roof door van.

 

 

The raised seams on the planking look very effective; I saw a photo of one of these recently and couldn't tell from that whether they really were raised in that manner or it was just an effect of the picture.

[CWJ]

It's been a while since I updated this! In the meantime I have been given a further three wagons to build - a second Airfix Esso tank wagon and two Airfix mineral wagons. I didn't take any photos of the assembly as it was very straightfoward. My only deviation from the instructions was to add metal wheels, bearings and tension lock couplings.

 

Here is one of the mineral wagons, along with its box which I'm sure will be familiar to some readers.

 

The underside of the mineral wagon, showing the bearings and the couplings which came (I think) from a Bachmann Class 08. The mountings, glued directly to the wagon underframe, seat the couplings at the right height.

 

This is the 'batch' of ancient wagon kits in various stages of construction. The first tank wagon has been painted in gloss black, ready for transfers, the second has since been undercoated. The two mineral wagons were constructed (in 22 minutes each - that's how easy they are!) and after this photo was taken they were undercoated in white primer. The other three wagons have been undercoated in red primer and the Bauxite areas painted by brush. The roof of the cattle wagon is just balancing for the photo.

 

The Prestwin tanker, GWR cattle wagon and LYR single-plank wagon have now had their underframes painted in matt black. I brush-painted these as it would have been trickier to mask off the bauxite bodies for spraying. The white interior of the cattle wagon has been given a wash of dirty gray/brown and the deck of the flat wagon painted the same colour (still wet in the photo).

[craigwelsh]

Brake shoes on a morton mineral should only be on the clutch side, you need to remove the other set, it was a mistake Airfix made. The effort to fix the 'working' hinges on these wagons makes them no longer worthwhile over a Bachmann now unless someone has a stash in my opinion.

 

The Prestwin still looks very impressive now considering how old it was, I wonder if Bachmann will eventually do some RTR following the Presflos?

[CWJ]

Thanks Craig - if I were trying to make a realistic model of a 16T mineral wagon I probably wouldn't start with this kit. Apart from the brake arrangement and the 'working' hinges on the side door, it would need turned metal buffers, scale drawhooks, scale brake rigging, scale body thickness and probably something a bit finer in the axlebox area. Oh, and something to replace the 4' 1" gauge wheelsets! All in all, better to start from scratch!

 

The Prestwin looks okay but it's a pig to get smooth joints between the various segments which make up the tanks without damaging the moulded-on pipework. I don't know why it comes in so many segments when RTR wagon bodies are produced in one moulding... maybe Airfix wanted to make it more of a challenge! There's certainly huge potential to make it more realistic by removing all the moulded detail and using metal pipework, valves, ladders etc.

 

If you're after a quick, cheap way of producing a long train of wagons which won't be individually scrutinised at close quarters, these kits are spot-on. Even wheels and transfers are included (albeit wonky plastic wheels on the older kits).

 

Cheers,

 

Will

 

 

[halfwit]

Brake shoes on a morton mineral should only be on the clutch side, you need to remove the other set, it was a mistake Airfix made.

 

Are you sure Craig? I always thought that the brake shoes on the Airfix wagon were on both sides and unconnected to represent a wagon fitted with bottom doors (which would foul the cross-shaft on a wagon fitted with single sided Morton brakes).

[hmrspaul]

Are you sure Craig? I always thought that the brake shoes on the Airfix wagon were on both sides and unconnected to represent a wagon fitted with bottom doors (which would foul the cross-shaft on a wagon fitted with single sided Morton brakes).

 

No the original correction was correct. The Airfix kit is of a diag 108 mineral and has only brake shoes on one side, with a rod connecting to the brake lever on the other side. The earlier steel minerals which had brake shoes on both side were independent brakes, so had twin V hangers on each side; quite different.

 

The Airfix kits were remarkably accurate - the Prestwin must still rank as one of the most accurate 4mm kits available (and I say that having measured the genuine article). And at 2 bob a go, even as kids we could afford to throw the bodies away and use the underframes for other models.

 

Paul Bartlett

[craigwelsh]

Are you sure Craig? I always thought that the brake shoes on the Airfix wagon were on both sides and unconnected to represent a wagon fitted with bottom doors (which would foul the cross-shaft on a wagon fitted with single sided Morton brakes).

Paul has answered most of your post for me but its worth mentioning that apart from double vee hangers on independent brakes the brakes as shown would push off the treads rather than on to them as modelled.. Something I also didn't realise until I designed my etched kit was that the push rods also slope inwards on a 1:20 towards the tyres from the vee matching the wheel coning.

 

CWJ - true that it would need a lot of work to get something a lot better, I was just pointout out something small that can be done to make that kit more accurate for anyone wanting a go. I don't think any steel mineral has scale body thickness unless etched due to it being sheet metal. I've been asked to do one but its really not worth it with the cost!

[halfwit]

Paul and Craig - thanks for putting me right (I'm always happy to be corrected). I think I'm getting these confused with the diagram 1/102 wagon in front of me (Peco kit). I see what you mean about the shoes pulling away from the wheels when the brakes are applied. I have 4 of the Airfix kits knocking and had already decided to replace the brakes.

[iL Dottore]

Some impressive work there. Of course, it helps to start with a high quality kit and many of the old kits were very, very good indeed and - for the most part - the instruction sheets were/are pretty good as well.

 

I've started to keep my eyes open for such kits at shows and will happily buy anything (even if not GWR/WR ) just for the pleasure of making such kits.

 

F

[griffgriff]

Paul and Craig - thanks for putting me right (I'm always happy to be corrected). I think I'm getting these confused with the diagram 1/102 wagon in front of me (Peco kit). I see what you mean about the shoes pulling away from the wheels when the brakes are applied. I have 4 of the Airfix kits knocking and had already decided to replace the brakes.

 

 

It is quite possible to model a diagram fitted with independent brakes - the clutch will need removing and the second set of brake rigging will need to be fitted in reverse so that it's the correct way round - no real need to do this these days of course unless you like wearing hair shirts

[CWJ]

Thanks for all the comments. All seven wagons have now been through the process of gloss varnishing, application of transfers, and matt varnishing (photo below).

 

 

The products used were as follows:

 

Tank Wagons

Halfords Red Oxide Primer (aerosol)

Halfords Gloss Black (two coats, aerosol)

Original Airfix transfers

Humbrol Matt Varnish (acrylic, aerosol)

 

Mineral Wagons

Halfords White Primer (aerosol) - NOTE: If I had grey primer in stock I would use this as both the primer and top coat - it's not quite the right shade but can be concealed by weathering.

Halfords Matt Black (aerosol) - underframe only, body masked off

Humbrol grey enamel for body, mixed by eye from light grey and a drop of black (brush painted)

Railmatch gloss varnish on side panels only (brush painted)

Original Airfix transfers

Humbrol Matt Varnish (enamel, aerosol)

 

Other Wagons

Halfords White Primer (aerosol) - interior of cattle wagon only

Halfords Red Oxide primer (aerosol)

Humbrol Matt Black (no.33) underframe (brush painted)

Railmatch BR Freight Wagon Bauxite (brush painted)

Humbrol dirty grey/brown wash for interior of cattle wagon (and cows). Same colour used undiluted for deck of flat wagon (brush painted)

Railmatch gloss varnish on selected areas (brush painted)

Original Airfix transfers on Prestwin, Modelmaster transfers on others (from BR wagons 1948-1965 sheet).

Humbrol Matt Varnish (enamel, aerosol)

 

This leaves me with a couple of issues to sort out (or cover up!) during the weathering stage:

1. In my haste (these wagons are needed for an exhibition next week) I sprayed the matt varnish on a little too thick, resulting in a white powdery appearance on the tank wagons. It's also present on the other wagons but much less visible.
2. The transfers which came with the mineral wagons are very yellow in their old age, and a couple became cracked during application. Those supplieed with the Prestwin and tank wagons, however, were in excellent condition.

Hopefully a bit of careful weathering will tone down the yellow transfers, but the finish on the tank wagons really needs resolving so I'll try a further thin coat of varnish. Hope to get these just about finished tonight for delivery on Monday. Watch this space!

 

Cheers,

 

Will

 

PS. I've just got back from a model railway exhibition held at the National Railway Museum - there were only a handful of layouts, plus displays from Hornby and Bachmann, but the layouts were all interesting and what a venue!

 

 

 

[CWJ]

...oh, and the roof of the cattle wagon is some Railmatch BR Roof Grey I had in aerosol form.

 

Will

[CWJ]

The wagons are finally complete, and have been sent to their new owner. Hopefully he won't be too disappointed! The photos below are after weathering was completed last night. Apologies for the poor quality, I didn't have much light available - the wagons look a bit better in the flesh, but then I would say that...

 

 

Weathering was by the George Dent method (see the recent edition of Model Rail with a feature on weathering) - i.e. brushing a wash of dirty dark grey/brown all over the model and then wiping it off with cotton buds dipped in white spirit. This is the first time I have used this method and I was really pleased with the way it looks on the timber, planked wagons (flat wagon and cattle wagon). As an unexpected bonus, the wiping action actually removed the film from the Modelmaster decals, leaving just the printed lettering! Needless to say this didn't work on the 40-year-old Airfix transfers...

 

However, it is less convincing on large, smooth surfaces where there are no nooks and crannies for the paint to settle. Thankfully, this technique seems to have obliterated the white misting effect on the tank wagons, created by my over-enthusiastic varnishing efforts earlier.

 

There is only one wagon I'm really uphappy with... one of the mineral wagons didn't take kindly to the weathering, and patches of the white undercoat became visible. I can't understand this, as both wagons were painted in exactly the same time and had ample (over 24 hours) time to dry. I have done my best to cover up the defects with extra weathering, but it doesn't look great.

 

Cheers,

 

Will

[James]

I can't understand this, as both wagons were painted in exactly the same time and had ample (over 24 hours) time to dry.

That's not ample time at all - it's fine if you are just re-coating but for weathering a few days minimum is desirable. Enamel paints may not have fully hardened, especially if they were thinned.

 

The advantage of waiting is that you can easily go back to wagons and remove more of the weathering with thinners if you want to without worrying about the livery beneath.

 

Hope that helps.

[CWJ]

That's not ample time at all - it's fine if you are just re-coating but for weathering a few days minimum is desirable. Enamel paints may not have fully hardened, especially if they were thinned.

 

The advantage of waiting is that you can easily go back to wagons and remove more of the weathering with thinners if you want to without worrying about the livery beneath.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Thanks for the advice James, I'll leave more drying time next time. Unfortunately I was working to a deadline... but as my technology teacher used to say, "there's no prize for finishing first"!

 

Cheers,

 

Will

[James]

Thanks for the advice James, I'll leave more drying time next time. Unfortunately I was working to a deadline...

Deadlines aren't good; one thing which can work is to use tinted varnishes as Pete Johnson described in MRJ a while back with various 16 ton moneral wagons as examples. Would reduce the risk of disturbing new paint too if you can't wait!

 

but as my technology teacher used to say, "there's no prize for finishing first"!

Unless you're an Olympic sprinter!