York Queen St bridge - going, going ...

[Wheatley]

As part of the York Gateway project Queen Street bridge is finally going, 60-odd years after it ceased to serve any useful function. 

 

[Wheatley]

This is the alignment of the lines leading to George Hudson's first York Station, latterly West Offices and now City of York Council's offices. After the present Station was built the lines remained for carriage storage before being lifted in the 1960s for a staff car park. 

Edited April 30 by Wheatley

[31A]

I've been keeping an eye on this too; it's been quite remarkable to see how they've built the new 'temporary' road between the old bridge and the Railway Institute buildings and the minimal disruption that's been caused (as far as I know).  The road was closed completely over the past two weekends, firstly while the temporary road was connected up to the existing roads, and secondly while the spans of the old bridge were being demolished.

 

I wasn't adventurous enough to go up on the Walls, but here are a few pictures from ground level.

 

This one is looking as nearly as possible along the alignment of the lines which passed beneath the bridge and through the archway in the City Walls to the old station.  The car park entrance barriers have been repositioned, as the temporary road now passes behind the white cabins and through the original car park entrance.

 

 

Looking down Queen Street towards the station with the new temporary road passing in front of the Railway Institute and old locomotive works buildings on the left.

 

 

And traffic flowing along the temporary road, with the road up to the old bridge on the right.  I had not noticed the outward lean of the retaining wall before!

 

[russ p]

I'm still not sure what advantage its going to bring as carpark will be smaller than it was. With York being set in a rural area especially to the north and east its not that practicable for people to use public transport to get to the station and very little if any long term parking near by. Very few hotels have parking in York 

[Michael Hodgson]

Thanks for potsing those pics - it's been a while since I've been to York.

[Wheatley]

2 hours ago, russ p said:

I'm still not sure what advantage its going to bring as carpark will be smaller than it was. With York being set in a rural area especially to the north and east its not that practicable for people to use public transport to get to the station and very little if any long term parking near by. Very few hotels have parking in York 

 

I don't think the car park will  be that much smaller when they've finished, but no-one sane or not using a company account parks next to the station, it's £20 a day which is extortionate even by York prices (£19 in the ACPOA car park on the old Unipart site). The Park and Ride is only £3.80. 

 

It's to ease the flow of traffic outside the station, taking away the bridge will open up that corner into a sort of plaza around and under the Victorian arches through the city wall with the road through the middle and bus bays either side. Similar to now but more spread out using the space right up to the city walls and without a massive jerry built crumbling lump in the middle. You can see on my last photo the concrete Lego bricks inserted into one of the piers to stop it falling over, they were put in a few years ago (so I'm told). 

 

What's particularly interesting is that the bridge approach ramp is currently holding up that corner of the city wall, there is a lot of borehole drilling going on on the old roadway, I don't think they're quite sure what's under it ! There are also a lot of targets on sticks along the back of the city wall and some (presumably) laser scanning things on various buildings so they're keeping a close eye on any movement. 

 

https://www.howardcivileng.co.uk/case-studies/york-station-gateway/

Edited May 1 by Wheatley

[iands]

16 hours ago, Wheatley said:

... 60-odd years after it ceased to serve any useful function. 

Mmm... not quite. It still served a useful purpose for access from the station side to the old S&T workshops when they were still located the other side of the bar walls. I recall a few trips twixt the signal box and workshops in the mid/late 70s with a trolley full of relays etc. for servicing. Also was a useful cut-through for BR vehicles until it got fenced off sometime in the late 80s, but they  did provide an official walkway and pedestrian gate for easy staff access to Holgate Villa, Road Motors and of course the RI. 

[russ p]

I feel sorry for the residents of Queen Street who's houses were below and away form the road but will now be on it

I'm not looking forward to staying in the Premier Inn either 

[Boris]

2 hours ago, russ p said:

I feel sorry for the residents of Queen Street who's houses were below and away form the road but will now be on it

I'm not looking forward to staying in the Premier Inn either 

Don't use the Ibis either, all the rooms are in a first floor extension over the carpark and a huge bank of airconditioning units that are really noisy.  The Elmbank a little bit further up the road is good and the rooms are at the back away from the road.

[31A]

10 hours ago, russ p said:

I'm not looking forward to staying in the Premier Inn either 

 

Sorry Russ, but I can't see how it'll make any difference to the Premier Inn!  The new road will start well to the station side of it.

[Dunalastair]

My maternal grandfather used  to work in the offices at York during the war, until he joined up to work on railways in North Africa and Italy. I have an idea that he might also have been involved in fire-watching on the station roof during air raids. I don't suppose that he would recognise much of the area around the station now. 

[iands]

54 minutes ago, Dunalastair said:

... I don't suppose that he would recognise much of the area around the station now. 

Certainly not the old station within the bar walls. Almost unrecognisable to me now, and I only started at York in 1973!

[russ p]

1 hour ago, 31A said:

 

Sorry Russ, but I can't see how it'll make any difference to the Premier Inn!  The new road will start well to the station side of it.

 

Morning Steve,  I was thinking blossom Street north has an annex next to Queen Street and was not looking forward to noise of bridge being demolished 

[russ p]

9 hours ago, Boris said:

Don't use the Ibis either, all the rooms are in a first floor extension over the carpark and a huge bank of airconditioning units that are really noisy.  The Elmbank a little bit further up the road is good and the rooms are at the back away from the road.

 

I'm in the ibis this weekend,  not a nice place as if its warm loads of noise from road as you need windows open. We don't normally use it but premier Inn and park Inn are all full

[31A]

38 minutes ago, russ p said:

 

Morning Steve,  I was thinking blossom Street north has an annex next to Queen Street and was not looking forward to noise of bridge being demolished 

Oh I see what you mean, sorry Russ.   I’m not sure whether they’re actually working at nights (someone else might know better) but I live about 10 minutes walk away and have the window open at nights, and thought the other night I couldn’t hear any noise from it.   I may have just been lucky and the wind was in the other direction ….

[31A]

I went for a walk along the City Walls this afternoon, to see how this was coming along.

 

Here is a general view of the work site.  The old bridge has completely gone, but the ramp leading up to it is still there, on the left hand side.  Apparently it is being left for now, until a new retaining wall is built to stop the Walls collapsing!

 

 

This view is looking along the course of the lines to the old station, which formerly passed under the bridge and through the archway in the City Walls the I was standing on.  The new (temporary) entrance to the station car park, off the new (temporary) Queen Street can be seen.  At the moment pedestrians have to walk on the far side of the "Portakabin City".  For some reason, a fragment of one of the bridge piers remains, behind the digger's jib, and has had new block walls built on either side of it.  I've no idea what's inside, but I don't think it's there on the images of the finished project!

 

 

The third picture is looking towards the station buildings.

 

The building on the left is the present Train Crew Signing On Point, and the building to its right with the sloping roof  is the "Cycle Heaven" bike shop, formerly the Parcels Office.  This is the part of the station that was most damaged in the 1942 Air Raid, and these buildings were replacements for ones which were damaged.  You can see how the brickwork of the train shed wall is different, behind the Signing On Point.  Original window arches can be seen on the left hand wall of the Signing On Point (masked by the lean to lobby), but the rest of the buildings are from the1940s.  Both buildings are planned to be demolished as part of this redevelopment, and the plans show the new taxi rank in this area.

 

In the foreground are two strange cylindrical brick columns; one has a piece of board on top and the other is surrounded by temporary barriers.  I assume these were underneath the old bridge and invisible until it was demolished; I wonder whether they are to do with the drainage system?

 

The grey roof at the front is a bike shed which I think was provided for the Hudson House railway office building, which was behind the Walls and has now been replaced by some swanky modern flats and offices.

 

[Flying Pig]

13 minutes ago, 31A said:

For some reason, a fragment of one of the bridge piers remains, behind the digger's jib, and has had new block walls built on either side of it.  I've no idea what's inside, but I don't think it's there on the images of the finished project!

 

Aren't those the lego bricks inserted a few years ago that @Wheatley mentioned above?

[Wheatley]

Mr Rutter reckons the concrete Lego bricks were dropped into the bridge pier through a hole in the road about 20 years ago to stop it splaying outwards under the weight of the roadway, but its odd that they've left them. I wonder if they're actually protecting something?

 

The brick cylinders are in roughly the same place as a couple of manhole covers on Streetview, unfortunately my pics in that area were taken after work had started and they're obscured by plant or debris. But again, it's odd that they're still there. They diverted the services off the bridge and moved them under the new road, maybe not all the services yet ?

 

This is York though so they could be anything ! The height of the city wall at this point suggests that the ground surface has been lowered to build the railway rather than built up to create the ramps so they may be wells or something else predating the bridge.  But Hudson knocked part of the city wall down and rebuilt it with arches to get his trains through so its all been fiddled with ! I had always assumed that the 'top' car park above the coal drops in Branches Yard was made up ground to create the ramp up to the drops, but they were excavating graves in it when I poked my nose through the fence a couple of years ago. 

[russ p]

1 hour ago, 31A said:

I went for a walk along the City Walls this afternoon, to see how this was coming along.

 

Here is a general view of the work site.  The old bridge has completely gone, but the ramp leading up to it is still there, on the left hand side.  Apparently it is being left for now, until a new retaining wall is built to stop the Walls collapsing!

 

 

This view is looking along the course of the lines to the old station, which formerly passed under the bridge and through the archway in the City Walls the I was standing on.  The new (temporary) entrance to the station car park, off the new (temporary) Queen Street can be seen.  At the moment pedestrians have to walk on the far side of the "Portakabin City".  For some reason, a fragment of one of the bridge piers remains, behind the digger's jib, and has had new block walls built on either side of it.  I've no idea what's inside, but I don't think it's there on the images of the finished project!

 

 

The third picture is looking towards the station buildings.

 

The building on the left is the present Train Crew Signing On Point, and the building to its right with the sloping roof  is the "Cycle Heaven" bike shop, formerly the Parcels Office.  This is the part of the station that was most damaged in the 1942 Air Raid, and these buildings were replacements for ones which were damaged.  You can see how the brickwork of the train shed wall is different, behind the Signing On Point.  Original window arches can be seen on the left hand wall of the Signing On Point (masked by the lean to lobby), but the rest of the buildings are from the1940s.  Both buildings are planned to be demolished as part of this redevelopment, and the plans show the new taxi rank in this area.

 

In the foreground are two strange cylindrical brick columns; one has a piece of board on top and the other is surrounded by temporary barriers.  I assume these were underneath the old bridge and invisible until it was demolished; I wonder whether they are to do with the drainage system?

 

The grey roof at the front is a bike shed which I think was provided for the Hudson House railway office building, which was behind the Walls and has now been replaced by some swanky modern flats and offices.

 

 

Are they Wells Steve? 

[31A]

3 minutes ago, russ p said:

 

Are they Wells Steve? 

 

They do look a bit like wells!

[31A]

1 hour ago, Flying Pig said:

 

Aren't those the lego bricks inserted a few years ago that @Wheatley mentioned above?

 

1 hour ago, Wheatley said:

Mr Rutter reckons the concrete Lego bricks were dropped into the bridge pier through a hole in the road about 20 years ago to stop it splaying outwards under the weight of the roadway, but its odd that they've left them. I wonder if they're actually protecting something?

 

 

Sorry, I'd forgotten Mr. Wheatley had mentioned them already.  It does seem strange the way they've left them, though.

 

1 hour ago, Wheatley said:

The brick cylinders are in roughly the same place as a couple of manhole covers on Streetview, unfortunately my pics in that area were taken after work had started and they're obscured by plant or debris. But again, it's odd that they're still there. They diverted the services off the bridge and moved them under the new road, maybe not all the services yet ?

 

That makes sense, thanks!

 

When the old bridge approach ramp is taken away the walls at that point will seem very high above the new road!

 

[Neil]

On 02/05/2024 at 10:38, russ p said:

 

I'm in the ibis this weekend,  not a nice place as if its warm loads of noise from road as you need windows open. We don't normally use it but premier Inn and park Inn are all full

 

Recommend the Travelodge at the bottom of Micklegate, better placed for town and cheaper (can you tell I was born and bred in York).

[woodenhead]

About where that bit of bridge walling is left, there used to be a gate.

 

Perhaps it is being kept to cover and protect something historic?

[RichardT]

As I understand it, the remaining road embankment and bridge pier are being temporarily retained as piling platforms for the construction of a new retaining wall to support the base of the Bar wall embankment. After that’s constructed they’ll be removed and the new road laid.

 

York’s mediaeval Bar Walls* are somewhat unusual in that for most of their circumference they stand on top of a high earth embankment rather than rising straight up from ground level (e.g. as in Newcastle, London and Chester).  The earth embankment was raised up after the Norman Conquest to cover the remains of the Roman city wall - rather than try to demolish it - and the mediaeval walls built resting on top, initially in wood and later gradually replaced in stone. (The exposed Bar walls with arches in them were re-built to get the tracks into the old station, and go down much further to ground level than the rest of the walls). So maintaining the embankment is structurally necessary to keep the Bar Walls standing. It’s also mediaeval made ground, probably concealing a host of archaeological finds, and is also probably still concealing large chunks of Roman city wall, so it’s a scheduled ancient monument in its own right. As there’s no urgency, or money, to excavate the site at the moment the road project is protecting it for future archaeologists and whatever new investigative techniques they will bring.

 

The on-site archaeologists have already uncovered the pre-bridge Victorian paved road that crossed the lines on the level.  It’s known that the current station is on the site of a huge Roman cemetery, only some of which was destroyed during its construction, but again the archaeologists now are going to leave what’s left undisturbed. 
 

The old station site itself is on top of civilian Roman York’s forum and again a lot of that was destroyed in the station’s construction. I’ve not yet seen any accounts of this, but I am assuming that George Hudson and his architect GT Andrews demolished and removed (not personally!) a stretch of Roman wall when digging away the embankment to get the tracks into the old station.

 

Going back to York tomorrow for a former colleague’s birthday party and I’ll be intrigued to have a look at the works.

 

Richard

 

*Bar Walls are what the mediaeval city walls are traditionally called in York

 

 

Edited May 18 by RichardT
Spelling

[Wickham Green too]

My digs in Guildford were just below the cathedral ..... yes I remember the bells every Sunday !

 

As for fire alarms, I'd just booked into the Europa in Belfast a number of years ago when the alarms went off ........ it may have been the most bombed hotel in Europe but I judged that such things were in the past - and the alarm agreed with me and stopped.