Strange looking Belgian combination

[jjb1970]

Use of modern double deck motor and driving vehicles with much older single deck intermediate coaches, it looked very odd. 

 

[Stefan88]

Happens in other countries too, usually when there is a shortage of stock. In Austria for example they mix double deck stock with old single deck stock to allow some element of the train to have platform level entry as there isn't enough double deck stock (which has platform level entries) to meet demand, these formations are locally known as a camel.

In this case though it looks like the matching double deck centre coaches are out of use for what ever reason, unless they have been repurposed for other uses? Still looks very unusual though given that it is an EMU formation.

Edited May 1 by Stefan88

[Morello Cherry]

It is quite common in Romania, it is one of those things that I've seen loads but never photographed and when I came to look for photos on flickr it was hard to find any.

 

Tends to often be the really really slow local services that call at every Halta going, and also where you are likely to have a punch up with a pensioner over the 'curent'.

 

Cluj to Sighet

 

 

 

Bacau to Piatra Neamt.

 

[Ian Morgan]

[Erichill16]

Interestingly the SBB IC 2000 stock will not be seen coupled to ordinary stock as the inter coach gangway is set high up at the upper deck level.

[Talltim]

Shades of the BR mk3 based EMU design here

 

Mixed stock happens in the US a lot too

Created: Taken on 30 May 2017

Updated: 2020-09-06 02:38:11

License: CC BY-SA 4.0

Credit: Own work | Pi.1415926535

Usage terms:Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 4.0

[Mike Buckner]

Can anyone say which station that is in the first photograph?

[jjb1970]

Gare du Midi/Zuid. I was over for a business trip last week and found a little time for train watching.

Edited May 3 by jjb1970

[Mike Buckner]

Thanks for the clarification.

 

Perhaps it's a train of motley rolling stock en route to a depot for cleaning of graffiti, as most of the vehicles seem to have marks on the front or the side we can see, maybe there are more marks on the other side.

 

The end vehicles suggest part of a double-deck EMU - of a type I haven't seen before. There are no running numbers visible on the end vehicles - perhaps they are brand new.

[Talltim]

I'm assuming that the power cars must be standalone vehicles rather than part of an EMU, in the same way the Swiss often had single power units, sometimes with only one cab, that work with other power cars, hauled stock and driving trailers or even locos. Oh, for standard couplers and control systems...

I think the running number is on the blue stripe at the bottom, in the middle of the vehicle.

 

Edit: Dunno why I didn't google before, anyway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NMBS/SNCB_M7_railcar

It seems the power cars are Bmx!

Edited May 3 by Talltim

[Mike Buckner]

13 minutes ago, Talltim said:

I'm assuming that the power cars must be standalone vehicles rather than part of an EMU, in the same way the Swiss often had single power units, sometimes with only one cab, that work with other power cars, hauled stock and driving trailers or even locos. Oh, for standard couplers and control systems...

I think the running number is on the blue stripe at the bottom, in the middle of the vehicle.

 

Edit: Dunno why I didn't google before, anyway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NMBS/SNCB_M7_railcar

It seems the power cars are Bmx!

 

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

They're certainly odd-looking beasts.  Judging  by  this photo, it seems single-deck/double-deck lash-ups with multiple end-units are a commonplace:

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:M7_BDx.jpg 

 

[jjb1970]

3 hours ago, Mike Buckner said:

Perhaps it's a train of motley rolling stock en route to a depot for cleaning of graffiti, as most of the vehicles seem to have marks on the front or the side we can see, maybe there are more marks on the other side.

 

Belgian trains seem terrible for graffiti, I don't know whether part of it is the Singapore effect (graffiti here is exceedingly rare so it stands out like a sore thumb when you see any) but Europe terrible for it now. Which is a shame as Belgium has a superb rail system. When I worked in London I didn't notice it so much and tuned a lot of it out but now when I visit London I see it everywhere. Germany is dreadful for graffiti. Here are some more.

 

[pete_mcfarlane]

49 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

 

Belgian trains seem terrible for graffiti, I don't know whether part of it is the Singapore effect (graffiti here is exceedingly rare so it stands out like a sore thumb when you see any) but Europe terrible for it now. Which is a shame as Belgium has a superb rail system. When I worked in London I didn't notice it so much and tuned a lot of it out but now when I visit London I see it everywhere. Germany is dreadful for graffiti. Here are some more.

It's still extremely rare to see a British passenger train in service with graffiti on it. Wagons are a different case, as some of them get left at remote spots overnight etc.

 

The worrying example is the bottom one, 08559, where it looks as though the graffiti has worn away from multiple passes through the carriage washer, as if it's been on there a while and nobody can be arsed to remove it. 

 

[5944]

7 hours ago, Erichill16 said:

Interestingly the SBB IC 2000 stock will not be seen coupled to ordinary stock as the inter coach gangway is set high up at the upper deck level.

It does happen very occasionally! Of course the double deck stock is often strengthened adding single deck coaches in front of the driving trailer.

 

https://flic.kr/p/2mEJ4j9

 

The high level gangway allows a trolley service to be operated - the carriage behind the loco has a door at the end which allows the trolleys to be loaded and lifted up to the upper deck.

[stewartingram]

On 01/05/2024 at 12:38, Stefan88 said:

Happens in other countries too, usually when there is a shortage of stock. In Austria for example they mix double deck stock with old single deck stock to allow some element of the train to have platform level entry as there isn't enough double deck stock (which has platform level entries) to meet demand, these formations are locally known as a camel.

In this case though it looks like the matching double deck centre coaches are out of use for what ever reason, unless they have been repurposed for other uses? Still looks very unusual though given that it is an EMU formation.

Probably not fitted with CDL and their ORR has intervened 😄

[Morello Cherry]

TBF Belgian stations are pretty grim. There are plenty of candidates for the derelict stations thread. Midi/Zuid is a bit of a dump.

 

@Talltim - the AM80 always looks very British to me. I can't quite place my finger on it. There is something that reminds me of the BR AC EMUs and oddly, a little bit of the Midland Pullman

 

 

I am happy to accept that I am seeing things that probably aren't there

[Erichill16]

7 minutes ago, Morello Cherry said:

TBF Belgian stations are pretty grim. There are plenty of candidates for the derelict stations thread. Midi/Zuid is a bit of a dump.

 

@Talltim - the AM80 always looks very British to me. I can't quite place my finger on it. There is something that reminds me of the BR AC EMUs and oddly, a little bit of the Midland Pullman

 

 

I am happy to accept that I am seeing things that probably aren't there

Funnily enough I thought about the Pullman unit even before seeing the lower picture.

 

[jjb1970]

Belgium has one of the best railway systems I've used. The trains aren't particularly special and tend to be quite basic and they don't major on high speed exotica, but they have an extremely well developed service pattern which allows you to get anywhere on the network easily with logical and easy to understand operating patterns, fares and cheap, it seems reliable and it all 'just works'. From a user perspective its better than other European railways which garner more attention because of their flag ship high speed lines and scenic vistas but which in some cases aren't particularly great when you try and use them to get from A to B.

 

On stations, Belgian people I met were horrified when I said I wanted to go to the station for a bit to take a few snaps and watch trains and advised against it. Gare du Midi/Zuid has always been problematic, being in a bad area and with a lot of petty crime but things seem to have deteriorated and it looked like there was a more generalized problem with homelessness, begging and petty crime around stations which was much worse than when I was a regular visitor before the pandemic. Which isn't an SNCB issue, that's a societal problem but unfortunately (as with other things) the railway gets lumbered with a very visible manifestation of a deeper problem.

 

That said, Antwerp has possibly the most impressive station in the world. Not just the famous old station building (the cathedral of rail travel) but the modern multi-level station is stunning.

 

I must admit that even though I think standard locomotive platforms like Vectron and Traxx have made European railways a bit boring compared to when each railway had its own distinct locomotive designs I do like the Belgian class 18. It's interesting too that Belgium still seems to see value in high visibility yellow ends.

 

 

[jjb1970]

On odd looking trains, the Swiss practice which I find strange looking is adding an extra 2 or 3 coaches including a driving vehicle onto fixed formation push pull sets to add more capacity. So there'll be a driving coach then a few more coaches with another driving coach. Sometimes using single deck coaches to strengthen double deck sets.

[Morello Cherry]

I find the Austrian practice of coupling two railjet trains together so that they have coaches-loco-coaches-loco a bit odd.

 

I have to admit to being biased against Brussels. We had our suitcase stolen from the train at Brussels Centraal one xmas while I was putting the baby into the carrier to get out a Midi/Zuid and then spent ages trying to report it to the police while station security were less use than a chocolate teapot. Annoying when you see the guys walking down the platform with your suitcase. Ironically despite it being xmas it was mostly full of baby clothes and cheese so frankly the worst haul possible.

[Southernman46]

13 hours ago, Morello Cherry said:

TBF Belgian stations are pretty grim. There are plenty of candidates for the derelict stations thread. Midi/Zuid is a bit of a dump.

 

@Talltim - the AM80 always looks very British to me. I can't quite place my finger on it. There is something that reminds me of the BR AC EMUs and oddly, a little bit of the Midland Pullman

 

 

I am happy to accept that I am seeing things that probably aren't there

or even 321 which is what they remind me of ...................

 

Seeing that graffiti makes me glad I experienced the SNCB when it was interesting and not suffering from that kind of issue became so prevalent .................

[jjb1970]

I have a love/hate relationship with Brussels. There are things I criticize but there are beautiful areas, the food is superb and I find the people friendly.  The area around Gare du Midi is best avoided but most cities have their problem areas. That said, I prefer Antwerp, I love Antwerp.

[roythebus1]

There's a Facebook group NMBS/SNCB that could provide answers to questions about mixing dd and sd stock.

 

The "old" DB was mixing dd and sd stock just after the fall of the Berlin wall. They had some DR dd stock as well as new electric locos on lease for a few years. They were used on the Rhine-Ruhr Sbahn services.

Edited May 5 by roythebus1

[Morello Cherry]

On 04/05/2024 at 13:33, jjb1970 said:

I have a love/hate relationship with Brussels. There are things I criticize but there are beautiful areas, the food is superb and I find the people friendly.  The area around Gare du Midi is best avoided but most cities have their problem areas. That said, I prefer Antwerp, I love Antwerp.

 

I think it is just one of those things that the area around most stations - not matter how much planners try to gentrify, will always end up being area to be avoided or at worst not somewhere you want to hang around in. Paris Nord, any of the Vienna stations, Gara de Nord,  Keleti, even the VIA rail station in Vancouver was pretty grim.

 

Midi is a funny station, the layout for anyone arriving on an international train is weird so it is hard to get your bearings initially. There are all these high end shops but then large parts of the station are really dark and run down, the platforms are weirdly basic and very narrow. The general state of things on SNCB does give an air of decay sadly.

 

It is an interesting place for watching trains - there can't be too many places where you can see TGV, Thalys, Eurostar, ICE, loco hauled international and national trains and the local EMUs.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

On 04/05/2024 at 13:33, jjb1970 said:

I have a love/hate relationship with Brussels. There are things I criticize but there are beautiful areas, the food is superb and I find the people friendly.  The area around Gare du Midi is best avoided but most cities have their problem areas. That said, I prefer Antwerp, I love Antwerp.

 

Having to run the gauntlet of the dealers and pimps hanging around Rue d' Aerschot while trying to get into Nord station is always interesting....  

 

On my last visit I made a point of visiting Congrès which has been pretty much abandoned for over 20 years.  It has a certain je ne sais quoi about it.