Seeking TT Inspiration

[George91]

I'm a long-time observer and enthusiast with no discernible modelling skills. Nonetheless, I've been really intrigued by the possibilities of TT, especially as I have a vacant fully converted loft space in my house. With the Duchess and green 08 now imminent, and Black 5, 9F and 47 in the pipeline, the idea of a 1960s North West of England layout has started to intrigue me. 

 

The space I'd love to have a layout in I think is sizeable but tight: a length of just over 12ft by just under 4ft- with a "lip" at 3ft high- note cat for scale! I suspect this would allow for a decent main line running length, but possibly some unachievably tight curves. 

 

In an ideal world, I'd like to combine the best of both of main line running and shunting to keep me entertained: possibly a station plus goods yard on a secondary route. I thought I'd post here to see if others could give me some thoughts and inspiration. 

 

 

[Jeff Smith]

The advice I offer to people attempting their first layout is to not be too ambitious.  From personal experience, my large OO loft layout started off being just the branchline terminus - for various reasons including a house move and a change of gauge, the rest never got built!

 

The shelf shown in your picture looks to be about a foot wide and maybe 12ft long.  You could fit a Minories type layout in TT:120.  I believe this could be built on three (portable) boards using Hornby track and minimal scenic structures and including a sector plate fiddle yard.  The 08, J50 and a pacific or two, some Mk1 coaches and coal wagons could be run.

 

This has some operational interest and does not include tight unrealistic radii.  You could use DC or DCC control but with DC you would need isolated sections to hold the pacific while the shunter pulls the coaches back.

[Gresley-4498]

It sounds like you have a good space there and trains could run round the room (I had one of these as a kid and they are fantastic.)

 

I would say for the first stage you are looking at is mostly joinery and collecting track.  (though if you prefer, you can get some units to a height that is comfortable for you (get a comfortable chair to test) and lay the boards across the top), however a flat / level complete base that fits your space is something to think about.  You can include some lowered sections in you want to include some bridges if you like.

 

With a base board in place, that can become the starting point of working out where you would like your track to go.

 

If you are going with the Hornby bluetooth decoders (I am with tt) then you can have digital and sound in the larger locos (and probably in the smaller ones eventually). The decoders support abc shuttles (braking modules TramFabriek's is around £4 each) which you can use to make you trains stop at stations, wait a while then head off, or configure a shunter and a wagon to go backwards and forth in a goods yard or a light loco between a coaling stage and a water tower.

 

The Settle and Carslile buildings would probably work with your ex-LMS theme as well, but there may be more to come from peco - the ready to plant buildings are good if you haven't done a lot of modelling in past and don't want assembling building kits to be your hobby.  

 

I would echo that it's easy to get too ambitious at the beginning.

 

 

 

 

 

[froobyone]

26 minutes ago, Gresley-4498 said:

It sounds like you have a good space there and trains could run round the room (I had one of these as a kid and they are fantastic.)

 

I would say for the first stage you are looking at is mostly joinery and collecting track.  (though if you prefer, you can get some units to a height that is comfortable for you (get a comfortable chair to test) and lay the boards across the top), however a flat / level complete base that fits your space is something to think about.  You can include some lowered sections in you want to include some bridges if you like.

 

With a base board in place, that can become the starting point of working out where you would like your track to go.

 

If you are going with the Hornby bluetooth decoders (I am with tt) then you can have digital and sound in the larger locos (and probably in the smaller ones eventually). The decoders support abc shuttles (braking modules TramFabriek's is around £4 each) which you can use to make you trains stop at stations, wait a while then head off, or configure a shunter and a wagon to go backwards and forth in a goods yard or a light loco between a coaling stage and a water tower.

 

The Settle and Carslile buildings would probably work with your ex-LMS theme as well, but there may be more to come from peco - the ready to plant buildings are good if you haven't done a lot of modelling in past and don't want assembling building kits to be your hobby.  

 

I would echo that it's easy to get too ambitious at the beginning.

 

 

 

 

 

This is what I fitted into a similar size. This is 23" wider, but same length. Mine will be split across the length with a backscene and have two separate environments. The far corners will be under hills. The foreground corners will carry appropriate speed restrictions. 

My only advice would be to visualise what you want to see. What specific thing about railways makes you happiest. Then fit that into your space. There will always be compromises. Modelling is about compromises. That is until someone develops little 3D people that buy tickets and board trains. Just remember that it's supposed to be fun. Don't worry about a corner radius that you can hide behind a hill. :)

Best and good luck

Dan

[Jeff Smith]

For me it is the extreme curves that exist in roundy layouts that spoil it.  But essential if you want to watch the trains go by......  Out and back layouts are more realistic but limited by the run length - it's a choice only you can make......

[DCB]

5 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

For me it is the extreme curves that exist in roundy layouts that spoil it.  But essential if you want to watch the trains go by......  Out and back layouts are more realistic but limited by the run length - it's a choice only you can make......

That's a criticism of Table layouts, ones with "A Baseboard" as seen from inside its not obvious how tight the curves are.  My loft is / was around 8 or 9 ft by 13 usable at 3ft above floor and the roof slope causes problems.   One side the baseboard is around  1 ft wide due to where the loft hatch is, the other 4ft in places.  On  the 1ft side my head is uncomfortably close to the roof.   Its 00 and horribly over complicated.   Work stopped around 20 years ago,  it has done service as a test track, it holds 10 coaches and 22 wagons in each of 3 storage loops and has 3 very long sidings (8ft plus) and a short one.    The current shed layout 7ft 6" wide inside has a 2ft 6" operating well which is 6" too narrow, even with all controls on a level below the track work.  The shed is a nominal 8ft wide and we didn't realise it was 7ft 6" inside until design was complete and we slimmed down the operating well to compensate.
I would not touch TT 120 with a barge pole, it's Hornby Dublo 3 rail  over again, limited range, 4 express engines , Goods engine, 2-6-4 and 0-6-2 tanks were the entire steam range 35 years after initial launch, or Triang TT...     If the range increases then fine, but Hornby missed a trick by  not going 1;100   TT3 and in your space I would go for N gauge where you can get a decent range of stock and not be reliant on Hornby staying in business.

[Jeff Smith]

3 hours ago, DCB said:

That's a criticism of Table layouts, ones with "A Baseboard" as seen from inside its not obvious how tight the curves are. 

That is certainly true with short wheelbase stock but bogie stock emphasizes it with the overhang.

[peak experience]

in that space, i'd forego a station, or if you must have one, go for a small wayside station with a goods yard for the daily pick up/trip working, and a passenger services consisting of a small tank/small diesel loco and three coaches on the local stoppers. non stop expresses can whizz through.  your layout wont be dominated by a station running the full length of the boards. alternatively, you could make a mainline station the whole of the layout and use a bridge/tunnel at either end - sheffield is a good example of such a station. have a look on google maps and you can see that it has a small servicing depot which could be reimagined as a goods yard. whatever you go for, try and hide some of the tight curves. 

[moawkwrd]

As a newcomer also drawn in by TT back in late 2022, I really think there's a lot of value in building something small to start with. Get one of the scale model scenery baseboard kits and put together a shunting layout - with TT their baseboards are plenty big enough. Use that as a test bed to learn layout building skills and also whether you enjoy shunting or not.

 

At the same time you could put together a simple baseboard a similar size to the Hornby TrackMat layout (6ft x 3ft I think it is) to throw a loop or two of track onto (most of which you'll get in a starter set + track packs) for round and round if you wanted. Such a layout is also useful for running in purposes - even if you don't fix the track down and pack it all away each time.

 

I know people on here typically advise new modellers to steer clear of sets as a starting point as a false economy but I don't think that applies as much in TT due to the range of rolling stock and the fact that the sets are a good value for rolling stock the same standard as what's available separately. The track in most cases ends up being essentially free so if you use it later on or not it doesn't really matter.

 

The worst thing would be to embark on some grand plan and then find out you hate it and want something completely different, or getting frustrated with electrics of either flavour/scenery/track laying/etc and losing your optimism. It is after all supposed to be a fun hobby. At least with above, most is reuseable, and it'll be a good use of time whilst the TT range continues to expand.

 

Then in time you'll know what you want from a big round the room layout, you'll have the skills to build it properly, and you won't make expensive mistakes that you might have made otherwise - speaking from experience!

 

I've got 2 layouts on the go in TT (a shelf layout and a roundy roundy) but both are replacements for false starts I made when I didn't know any better and now I'm taking my time.

Edited May 8 by moawkwrd

[Jeff Smith]

I have not tried the controller that came with my DC Easterner mainly because it is for 240v.  Instead I used a Gaugemaster.  It ran well but I have heard the set controllers are not very good......  If so this is not good for new set owners!

[Legend]

I must admit I like a roundy roundy because I want to run an HST and see it build speed . You just can't do that  with an end to end layout .  It really depends on what people want . There are attractions to a Minories type layout because operationally it's satisfying . Ideally Id combine both . Keeping an eye on Froobyones progress above and also on YouTube with "That Model Railway Guy" who is doing a TT120 layout with terminus and continuous run in 8ft by 2.5 feet 

[moawkwrd]

28 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said:

I have not tried the controller that came with my DC Easterner mainly because it is for 240v.  Instead I used a Gaugemaster.  It ran well but I have heard the set controllers are not very good......  If so this is not good for new set owners!

It’s the same as what’s in the OO sets, but then such controllers have never been great.

[Jeff Smith]

21 minutes ago, moawkwrd said:

It’s the same as what’s in the OO sets, but then such controllers have never been great.

Perhaps off putting for first timers!

[britishcolumbian]

On 07/05/2024 at 10:16, DCB said:

Hornby missed a trick by  not going 1;100   TT3

And then they would've lost out on all the Continental sales they've made by adapting a proper worldwide scale... sales which, to gather from the various German, Hungarian, Czech etc groups I'm in, have not been insignificant. I wouldn't be here, either. Using an established global standard scale was part of the genius of the idea... finally something British and RTR that you can say is correct scale to gauge.

 

Edit to add: a big part of the hobby in Germany is just simply collecting - that's why the manufacturers release things like French and Belgian and Italian steamers... nobody really models SNCF or SNCB in 1:120, but there are plenty who will buy the model to add it to their collection. Hornby are going to do well with something as iconic as the HST, with such sales.

Edited May 8 by britishcolumbian

[Gresley-4498]

2 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

I have not tried the controller that came with my DC Easterner mainly because it is for 240v.  Instead I used a Gaugemaster.  It ran well but I have heard the set controllers are not very good......  If so this is not good for new set owners!

 

The modern option is the DCC Sound version that controls the trains with an phone app through bluetooth. this does work really well, so I'm using this for the tt layout.  Trainset controllers tend to be cheap and cheerful for the most part.  I think there is a very limited market for a premium DC controller these days.

[Jeff Smith]

2 hours ago, Gresley-4498 said:

 

The modern option is the DCC Sound version that controls the trains with an phone app through bluetooth. this does work really well, so I'm using this for the tt layout.  Trainset controllers tend to be cheap and cheerful for the most part.  I think there is a very limited market for a premium DC controller these days.

Yes, but DCC is added expense for layouts that don't really need it. eg, simple double track oval layouts for watching the trains go by, or branch line terminii which were generally one engine in steam......

 

DCC is great for complex layouts with multiple locos, MPDs, double heading etc but every loco costs more plus a DCC controller if required.....

[Glob-Ally]

Hi @George91 , in case you aren’t aware there is also a “layout and track design” forum on rmweb that is frequented by some people who are fantastic at this stuff so you might want to also consider posting there. That said, you will probably get even more ideas and questions flung back at you than here so make sure you’re ready for that!

 

FWIW my take would be that you are right to focus on the width. One important question is whether that “lip” shelf is included in your just under four foot measurement, and another is whether it is at a height where you would be happy to put the layout on top of it, or if you are looking for something lower that you sit down to operate. 

 

Beyond that, I would say the issue is less curves and more fitting yourself (and any guests) in. In TT120 a double track with 3rd and 4th radius curves only needs about 85cm of width so if you want a loop around the edge of your space that’s perfectly feasible. But it does mean you have to fit boards down both sides and yourself in the middle of it. I would test out with some tables how narrow a space you feel comfortable being stood/sat in, potentially for an extended period of time. And be honest with yourself! For me (short and slim-ish) it would be about 70cm, which would leave you 45ish cm combined for your boards on either side. That’s not a lot, even in TT120, but would allow for example the use of the narrow scale model scenery boards down each side. Or you could run a very narrow purely scenic section (people have even used ikea picture rails) down one wall, giving you slightly more space for a more realistic depiction of a station and goods yard on the opposite side. What I think you would struggle to do is to have a sizeable off-scene storage area/fiddle yard down one side and a station/goods yard down the other side (unless the lip shelf is not included in your original calculation). So if a fiddle yard space is important to you, you might be well advised to go for an end to end setup as some others have suggested.

 

I apologise that the title of your thread is about inspiration and I have jumped straight to practicalities! But it’s worth thinking about! And if it helps, I’m very jealous of you having that space available!

[peak experience]

18 hours ago, Legend said:

I must admit I like a roundy roundy because I want to run an HST and see it build speed . You just can't do that  with an end to end layout .  It really depends on what people want . There are attractions to a Minories type layout because operationally it's satisfying . Ideally Id combine both . Keeping an eye on Froobyones progress above and also on YouTube with "That Model Railway Guy" who is doing a TT120 layout with terminus and continuous run in 8ft by 2.5 feet 

I always thought Minories would work great as a through station too. There's no reason one couldn't use the plan and extend the tracks under the station roof and have a 'roundy roundy'. on the original plan, no one can see if there are buffer stops or not. 

[woodenhead]

16 minutes ago, peak experience said:

I always thought Minories would work great as a through station too. There's no reason one couldn't use the plan and extend the tracks under the station roof and have a 'roundy roundy'. on the original plan, no one can see if there are buffer stops or not. 

Which is why the MRC extended it to a roundy roundy:

https://www.themodelrailwayclub.org/layouts/minories/

 

 

 

[rekoboy]

My L-shaped German TT attic layout on two levels (2.5 if you include the tram route!) is 2.20m in length by 1m at one end, 1.80m at the other. It has hidden sidings on level 1 and level 2 and offers loads of operating fun, including tail-chasing and point-to-point - and also because the freight yard is laid out as a time-saver. See the German Railways section here on RM Web, Kirchheim.

[Gresley-4498]

17 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

Yes, but DCC is added expense for layouts that don't really need it. eg, simple double track oval layouts for watching the trains go by, or branch line terminii which were generally one engine in steam......

 

DCC is great for complex layouts with multiple locos, MPDs, double heading etc but every loco costs more plus a DCC controller if required.....

 

With the Digital option of the starter set, the transformer plugs directly into the track, and the control signals come from your phone, so you don't need to buy a controller. The locomotives need a chip each, but that gives them sound (£60 for bluetooth and sound is a very good price) and abc shuttle support, so the double oval you describe could have trains that stop at a station, wait a while then continue. while there are a few other locomotives milling about in sidings.

 

I have included a picture of the simple layout that I am building at the moment, which still has some track to arrive.

 

The blue sections denote abc sections that can stop a locomotive, which can then resume in an appropriate direction after an appropriate delay through configuration that is on the locomotive.  ABC modules from tramfabriek are around £5 each 

 

 

 

I'm thinking at the moment that the 2 ovals would make the trains stop and then continue, whilst the line beside the engine shed would move from a coaling stage to a water tower. With the 3 at the bottom, one could shunt a wagon into a goods shed while the other options are still tbd.

[Jeff Smith]

This seems to be a slippery slope to full automation.....where's the fun in that?

 

Seriously - I'm happy controlling one DC loco at a time - I must be old fashioned....😀

[DCB]

The Bluetooth system  is hopefully the future,   The stakes are high as so many people are heavily invested in basically obsolete and very expensive Track signal DCC and could be left out on a limb like 20volt AC modellers in the 1950s .   

2 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

This seems to be a slippery slope to full automation.....where's the fun in that?

 

Seriously - I'm happy controlling one DC loco at a time - I must be old fashioned....😀

I think the peak of automation was 60 years ago when some pioneering  3 rail  layouts had track circuiting. automatic colour light signalling etc operated by government surplus ex military and ex GPO  relays etc.  Two  rail and track  signal DCC makes automation more difficult  OK  a fully automated ,layout has its advantages, you could set it going and go for a ride on your Hardly Ableson or visit  your local night club while live streaming the layout activity  to some one in Middlesboro'   what can't sleep, but you might just as well have a Hornby Virtual Railway in that case

[Gresley-4498]

16 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

This seems to be a slippery slope to full automation.....where's the fun in that?

 

Seriously - I'm happy controlling one DC loco at a time - I must be old fashioned....😀

 

Well some of the fun is in dodging all those other moving trains with the one that you are driving.  🙂 

 

I don't think it's one or the other, probably about 1/3rd of my locos are chipped.  (across 00/HO/G/N/TT)

[britishcolumbian]

On 09/05/2024 at 23:41, Jeff Smith said:

This seems to be a slippery slope to full automation.....where's the fun in that?

 

Actually, it would be a brilliant tool if I could automate all the passenger train movements per a timetable, and then concentrate on doing the goods/shunting work myself.