TOPS loco data panel

[Arunit]

What does each data panel marking represent

ETH, Brake force tonne etc

[Hal Nail]

Are you asking what they mean or what is on there?

 

Weight of the loco, brake force is a measure of how much stuff it can stop, eth is an indication of the electric power it can supply to the train, ra is what routes it can run on, and its top speed.

 

Below is the depot code.

 

Edited May 17 by Hal Nail

[Jeremy Cumberland]

ETH is electric train heat (it is blank on locos without ETH generators). Each coach has an ETH rating, and the loco rating has to be higher than the sum of the ETH rating of all the coaches.

 

Brake force is for working unfitted or partially fitted trains. The guard had to assess the weight of each wagon. There were different values for empty, half full, full and very full (I forget the exact wording). If there was a fitted head the guard would add on the brake force of each wagon to that of the locomotive. The guard then checked that the two values, load and brake force, were within what was permitted for the locomotive and the route. The numbers were given to the driver who used  them to judge how much braking the train would require. @The Johnster can tell you all about this, since it used to be his job as a goods guard.

 

RA (route availability) says what lines the locomotive is permitted to run on. RA 1 is the lowest and can run anywhere. I think RA 9 is the highest and is restricted to the heaviest main lines, but I can't offhand recall anything above a 7. Quite a lot of the the tendrils at the edges of the network are RA 5, good for classes 20, 24-27, 37 and 55 and not much else as I recall.

[Arunit]

Thank you so much.please help me with the rooftop and underframe components of the class 92 .

  

[The Stationmaster]

4 hours ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

 

 

Brake force is for working unfitted or partially fitted trains. The guard had to assess the weight of each wagon. There were different values for empty, half full, full and very full (I forget the exact wording). If there was a fitted head the guard would add on the brake force of each wagon to that of the locomotive. The guard then checked that the two values, load and brake force, were within what was permitted for the locomotive and the route. The numbers were given to the driver who used  them to judge how much braking the train would require. @The Johnster can tell you all about this, since it used to be his job as a goods guard.

 

 

Brake Force is for all freight trains, including those which are fully fitted, because  the loco always provides part of the braking effort for the entire train.  Wagon weights were Empty, Light, Medium, and Heavy and the Brake force of a wagon varied according to its loading status but far more important were the wagon weights.

 

So when the train was prepared the person doing the preparation (befopre TOPS did it for him) added all the wagon weights together to get the total load and all the Brake Force numbers to get the total braking effort on the wagons.    The loco was then added to get the total Brake Force of the entire train.   There were then two things to check off printed tables - could the loco manage the load (LoadsTable) and did the entire train, including the loco, have sufficient Brake Force for the  maximum speed at which it was permitted to run (the latter also depended on the Class of train).

 

The load was absolute - it was either 'go' or 'no go' and depended on the power of the loco.  The Brake Force tables allowed a bit of wriggle room such as reducing the train to a lower head code/speed to match its stopping power.; but also a 'no go' situation if the. Brake Force was inadequate to fit into a permitted range.

 

For example if a fully fitted freight had a total Brake Force of 200 tonnes it was allowed a trailing load of 1250 tonnes at 35mph max speed.  But the load was restricted to 680 tonnes at 60mph maximum speed

[Arunit]

16 hours ago, Arunit said:

Thank you so much.please help me with the rooftop and underframe components of the class 92 .

  

Can someone please point out the different components on the rooftop of the class 92 please. 

[Arunit]

13 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Brake Force is for all freight trains, including those which are fully fitted, because  the loco always provides part of the braking effort for the entire train.  Wagon weights were Empty, Light, Medium, and Heavy and the Brake force of a wagon varied according to its loading status but far more important were the wagon weights.

 

So when the train was prepared the person doing the preparation (befopre TOPS did it for him) added all the wagon weights together to get the total load and all the Brake Force numbers to get the total braking effort on the wagons.    The loco was then added to get the total Brake Force of the entire train.   There were then two things to check off printed tables - could the loco manage the load (LoadsTable) and did the entire train, including the loco, have sufficient Brake Force for the  maximum speed at which it was permitted to run (the latter also depended on the Class of train).

 

The load was absolute - it was either 'go' or 'no go' and depended on the power of the loco.  The Brake Force tables allowed a bit of wriggle room such as reducing the train to a lower head code/speed to match its stopping power.; but also a 'no go' situation if the. Brake Force was inadequate to fit into a permitted range.

 

For example if a fully fitted freight had a total Brake Force of 200 tonnes it was allowed a trailing load of 1250 tonnes at 35mph max speed.  But the load was restricted to 680 tonnes at 60mph maximum speed

Thank you for the detailed explanation.

  please explain the data panel entries for class 92 especially the last two 

[Arunit]

Anyone with technical knowledge of class 92 Please identify the marked components.

 

[Arunit]

16 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Brake Force is for all freight trains, including those which are fully fitted, because  the loco always provides part of the braking effort for the entire train.  Wagon weights were Empty, Light, Medium, and Heavy and the Brake force of a wagon varied according to its loading status but far more important were the wagon weights.

 

So when the train was prepared the person doing the preparation (befopre TOPS did it for him) added all the wagon weights together to get the total load and all the Brake Force numbers to get the total braking effort on the wagons.    The loco was then added to get the total Brake Force of the entire train.   There were then two things to check off printed tables - could the loco manage the load (LoadsTable) and did the entire train, including the loco, have sufficient Brake Force for the  maximum speed at which it was permitted to run (the latter also depended on the Class of train).

 

The load was absolute - it was either 'go' or 'no go' and depended on the power of the loco.  The Brake Force tables allowed a bit of wriggle room such as reducing the train to a lower head code/speed to match its stopping power.; but also a 'no go' situation if the. Brake Force was inadequate to fit into a permitted range.

 

For example if a fully fitted freight had a total Brake Force of 200 tonnes it was allowed a trailing load of 1250 tonnes at 35mph max speed.  But the load was restricted to 680 tonnes at 60mph maximum speed

Why is the unit of brake force in tonnes and not Newton?

[Jeremy Cumberland]

2 hours ago, Arunit said:

Why is the unit of brake force in tonnes and not Newton?

 

Unless you are doing calculations involving mass (and goods guards were not calculating deceleration or stopping times, they were looking up values in tables), the unit of force does not matter, and in the context of goods trains, it is more important that the numbers are in a sensible range that are easy to add up, without worrying about copying down the wrong number of zeroes.

 

In pre-metric days, engineers and scientists (mostly) used poundals when working with mass in pounds, but a poundal is a ridiculously small unit to use for train braking, and the imperial system had no convenient multipliers like kilo- or mega-. Alternatively, you could use pounds-force (lbf) for force, and with this method you could use different units (tons-force, for example), to give numbers in a convenient range. So the railways used tons-force, and called them tons (as did almost everyone else outside of a science or engineering context - there rarely being any need to distinguish between mass and force).

 

1 imperial long ton, as was used in Britain, is almost exactly 1 metric tonne (there is 1.6% difference), so there was no problem in going from imperial tons to metric tonnes, and most values remained the same.

['CHARD]

6 hours ago, Arunit said:

Thank you for the detailed explanation.

  please explain the data panel entries for class 92 especially the last two 

 

The Data panel on a Class 92 gives its different ETH ratings that apply if it's taking power from the overhead line at 25kVAC (180?) or third rail at 750V DC (108). 

 

The loco is mixed traffic, and has different brake system settings for passenger mode or goods mode, hence the two different brake force values are shown. The rating for passenger trains is the higher of the two.

[Arunit]

16 minutes ago, 'CHARD said:

 

The Data panel on a Class 92 gives its different ETH ratings that apply if it's taking power from the overhead line at 25kVAC (180?) or third rail at 750V DC (108). 

 

The loco is mixed traffic, and has different brake system settings for passenger mode or goods mode, hence the two different brake force values are shown. The rating for passenger trains is the higher of the two.

can you please explain brake weight technically.

 Kindly assist in identifying the components of the class 92 that I have posted if possible

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, Arunit said:

can you please explain brake weight technically.

 Kindly assist in identifying the components of the class 92 that I have posted if possible

Put very simply the brake force is the amount of the adhesive weight of a vehicle or loco which is available as stopping power.   The idea was undoubtedly to use commonly understood units (the ton when the system was first introduced in 1968) so that anyone would understand the numbers and relationship between them.

 

Don't forget that this system had to be trained-in to 'ordinary working people' although they all had a degree of intelligence in order to have qualified for the jobs they were doing.  What, in 1968, was called 'the New Freight Train Loads System' was applied nationally across BR and replaced various previous methods of calculating loads for freight trains.  It also introduced the concept of brake force measured in tons as a more accurate way of assessing the braking power of a freight train compared with the previous practice of simply counting the number of wagons fitted with continuous brakes and matching that to particular classes of train and hence maximum permitted speed.  

 

The original training was a very straightforward one day course (it had a second day for some grades but that was almost entirely practical exercises) to explain the system and how it worked.   It was an interesting and enjoyable day as far as I was concerned and the course I attended was held in  a room in Reading Signal Works so handy for the canteen.  Having had several moves and shake outs of paperwork I think I dumped all my course notes a long time ago. 

 

I might somewhere have a Class 92 training guide or fault guide so i'll see if I can find it   In the 1990s I was creating Loads Tables (in tons, not tonnes) and calculating ETH loadings for them but it's just as well they never had to be used to give ETH power on the 3rd rail Channel Tunnel routes as the cross-channel night stock had very high ETH loads.

[The Johnster]

10 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Don't forget that this system had to be trained-in to 'ordinary working people' although they all had a degree of intelligence in order to have qualified for the jobs they were doing.

Remembering some of my colleages at Canton in the 70s (did you ever encounter ‘Harpic’*, Mike?), this is an interesing comment!  A minority of us to be fair, but they did not induce confidence in the selection process…

 

 

*he drove you clean around the bend.  

[Arunit]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Put very simply the brake force is the amount of the adhesive weight of a vehicle or loco which is available as stopping power.   The idea was undoubtedly to use commonly understood units (the ton when the system was first introduced in 1968) so that anyone would understand the numbers and relationship between them.

 

Don't forget that this system had to be trained-in to 'ordinary working people' although they all had a degree of intelligence in order to have qualified for the jobs they were doing.  What, in 1968, was called 'the New Freight Train Loads System' was applied nationally across BR and replaced various previous methods of calculating loads for freight trains.  It also introduced the concept of brake force measured in tons as a more accurate way of assessing the braking power of a freight train compared with the previous practice of simply counting the number of wagons fitted with continuous brakes and matching that to particular classes of train and hence maximum permitted speed.  

 

The original training was a very straightforward one day course (it had a second day for some grades but that was almost entirely practical exercises) to explain the system and how it worked.   It was an interesting and enjoyable day as far as I was concerned and the course I attended was held in  a room in Reading Signal Works so handy for the canteen.  Having had several moves and shake outs of paperwork I think I dumped all my course notes a long time ago. 

 

I might somewhere have a Class 92 training guide or fault guide so i'll see if I can find it   In the 1990s I was creating Loads Tables (in tons, not tonnes) and calculating ETH loadings for them but it's just as well they never had to be used to give ETH power on the 3rd rail Channel Tunnel routes as the cross-channel night stock had very high ETH loads.

Can you help me with the components on the rooftop of the class 92 and on the underframe. I have posted the photos above

[Arunit]

12 hours ago, Arunit said:

Anyone with technical knowledge of class 92 Please identify the marked components.

 

@The StationmasterPlease assist me with the components

[The Stationmaster]

59 minutes ago, Arunit said:

@The StationmasterPlease assist me with the components

I'll see if I have any info but anything I will have is more likely to be interior stuff plus any exterior access points - if I have got the guide pamphlets that is.t

[Arunit]

32 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

I'll see if I have any info but anything I will have is more likely to be interior stuff plus any exterior access points - if I have got the guide pamphlets that is.t

Thanks. If you know someone who can assist please mention

[F-UnitMad]

6 hours ago, Arunit said:

Thanks. If you know someone who can assist please mention

This is a big forum, it can take time for people to see your posts. You have also changed your request within hours from the one in the title, to Class 92 components, & repeated that request several times.

To get that answer, edit the title - done by going back to your opening post & open that in Edit mode. Or, start another topic with that specific question. EDIT - I see you have. 

Unfortunately, I have no idea what the answers are; 92s are well outside my interests (but TOPS data panels are of interest, which is why I read your topic).

Edited May 18 by F-UnitMad

[AY Mod]

Locked.

 

The topic is carnage.

 

Please repost with focussed questions - and don't keep badgering people. 🤬