Frankland: N gauge Southern Railway

[Southernboy]

Thanks again for comments gents - and added banter too

 

As to eating one's own clothes - Stan Laurel promises to eat Ollie's hat in

... and having now seen the trailer I really must go and watch it Edited April 17, 2012 by Southernboy

[devondynosoar118]

That's another fine mess you've gotten me into Stanley.....

More of a Harold Lloyd man myself,

Edited April 18, 2012 by devondynosoar118

[L49]

WOW!!! I can't think of any other word to describe the progress on the layout. It looks absolutely fantastic. I love the torn fly posters on the viaduct, and the glazed brickwork under the bridges. This really captures the atmosphere.

 

It's refreshing to see a layout which doesn't major on one set scene, either the nice clean area along the main road, or the grotty fly posted back streets, but manages to combine the two harmoniously. You really get the feeling that you could walk under the arch and accidentally take a wrong turning and end up in a lot of bother!

 

Are you ever planning on exhibiting this? I would love to see it in the flesh (as it were!)

[devondynosoar118]

Thank you, thank you to everyone for your very kind comments.

 

You know, I really do enjoy my modelling, and the little stories that go with it. I find it very relaxing.

 

The fact that I can share it with so many people I've never met out there on the internet - and that positive comments flow back makes it all the more rewarding again

 

In reply to a few posts:

 

 

 

Kevin Walsh

I'm afraid Frankland is a stay-at-home layout. But I like to think you probably see more and get to understand it better through the occasional broadcasts than you would by standing behind a barrier in some large exhibition

 

 

Thanks again for your comments one and all

 

 

Mark

[Southernboy]

L49

"It's refreshing to see a layout which doesn't major on one set scene ... "

 

Thanks, that reminds me of a question I came across a few years back (I'm paraphrasing here):

"How do model change from one scenic type area to another (eg, town to country) on a small layout where there is little room for areas of transition between the two".

 

That question interested me very much and I'm trying to resolve the challenge here on Frankland. The obvious answer is to use scenic breaks, plus what I call 'blockers' (items which deliberately interrupt sight-lines), and similarly focal points, which draw or distract the eye in predetermined directions.

 

Frankland is zoned into the following areas:

* Speculative development bordering agricultural land.

* Then moving through the key stages of development to more intensive urbanisation.

* Plus this meeting 'Old Town'.

* And then the latter two areas bordering onto the outskirts of the traditional city.

 

For me it completes the journey by train from city to countryside and my trains and passengers will be 'going somewhere'.

 

When viewing the layout as a whole from above this 'zoning' may not be so evident, but when seen from different vantage points at eye level I hope each of the key scenes above can be viewed in isolation and the different stories told ... these zones and their 'transitions' will not really become apparent until nearer the layout's completion ... but it's an aim I hope to achieve.

 

 

Thanks again for asking that question!

 

EDIT: I'll post a picture later which I hope will show what I mean.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Southernboy

[Southernboy]

Ok, so here we go:

 

Speculative development bordering agricultural land = green (front and centre)

Moving through key stages of development to more intensive urbanisation = orange

Old Town = brown (on the right)

City outskirts = blue

 

 

You may notice the section over the controller is earmarked 'Speculative Development'. That's because eventually a scenic board will be positioned here.

 

The control panel is on runners. In the photograph here it is pictured in it's 'closed' position, but it pulls out beyond the area that will be covered by the scenic board.

The reason for this is to keep the layout/controls as compact as possible when not in 'play mode' (it's not a large room).

[bmthtrains - David]

We evidently think alike Mark - I apply the same considerations on my own layouts. You explain it exceptionally well though, breaking the layout into visual blocks that create distinctive scenes that the eye focuses on, helping with that difficult transition between scenic types, as you describe it. So many layouts get this wrong, and no matter how good the modelling, the sense of unreality spoils them in my view.

 

it is another aspect of your modelling that puts it in the very top bracket - you understand the conceptual aspects of composition, and execute it with superb modelling.

 

This is a masterclass in both the art and science of modelling - a balance very few people get right. The combination of fully understood theory and artistic skill is what creates a masterpiece - such as this is.

 

David

[Southernboy]

Thank you David - yes we do think alike in that respect - and your comments are really very much appreciated indeed

 

The one thing I know Frankland sadly lacks in the overall picture is some proper trains, and that's something I hope to redress before the year is out. That would really start to complete the picture.

[Black Sheep]

Sorry to be turning back time a little here, I was wondering how you had done the tram track and road as I'm looking at putting a stretch of tram line in that goes along my 'high st'

 

Is it just some flexi track and then the road surface built up using card / plaster etc?

 

thanks

[Southernboy]

Hello Black Sheep,

 

For the road I initially experimented with plain plaster mixed with grey paint in order to get that proper 'Tarmac' look. I was quite pleased with the experiments.

 

 

 

 

But no matter how scientific my approach, I found it impossible to mix batches of plaster and paint which matched consistently in colour and so was unable to use the technique in a modular way across the layout as a whole. Eventually I resorted to just painting the surface and later adding weathering powders as appropriate. It was a bit of a disappointment. In the future I'd like to experiment with mixing something like ballast in plaster, tamping it down, then painting it, and finally sanding it back just a little to give that smooth but variable 'Tarmac texture'.

 

I used plaster not only because I wanted to experiment with texture, but also because I wanted to be able to sand it back to the right camber, and in particular get correct the intersecting cambers where roads converged, and I thought this would be easier to achieve using plaster rather than card or plastic.

 

Other thoughts to road surfaces include JimSW's use of Suedcote.

 

 

For tram track I used some old lengths of code 80 track from my previous layout. If you are interested in modelling conduit, I used brass U section. It wasn't cheap and cost me nearly £40.00! But conduit was a key visual ingredient for Frankland - and it was around my birthday at the time - so I indulged myself

 

I had tried plastic U section, but trying to paint this a metallic colour crisply and cleanly without getting any on the road was impossible - so proper metal it had to be!

 

The road was built up using two or three layers of plaster. In the picture below you can see the early days of the process - when Frankland was still surrounded by fields. It looks to be a crisp and misty Spring morning ( I think there's still dew on the ground when this photo was taken)

 

 

 

 

Finally, I also attempted an area of tram track set in wooden 'setts', with cobbled gutters too (both using Slaters brick sheet).

 

 

Again, it didn't quite live up to my hopes. The 'bite' in Slaters Bricksheet is insufficient to take a wash which lends definition between the setts or cobbles, and trying to dry-brush in situ is just impossible.

 

In future I'd consider various options: Making lengths of street as 'drop in sections' which I would construct on my desk / maybe scribing the setts by hand / or using etched sheets of setts (which would have to be commissioned) ...

 

As it stand I'm not unhappy with my roads - but I know another time they could be better

 

Hopefully that covers all quarters and more.

 

Mark

[artizen]

I have had the same problem with batching when making the 28,000 bricks for my 1:24 minimum gauge layout. In the end it was obvious, stop making individual pots of plaster with cement oxides and make a really large amount (3 litre rice dispenser bottle!) with the oxides blended in according to a written list of ingredients. Worked a treat. Now I can batch 120 bricks at a time (they are dry enough to remove from the moulds every 45 minutes) so I can theoretically produce over 3,000 bricks a week and the colour and texture is consistent. Of course, I am working with dry ingredients which can be stored for as long as necessary. So I now have cement mortar (light grey), sandstone, Tuscany brick and dark red brick blends ready for use. Poster powders could be an alternative. Also, I build all the messy parts of the layout as a drop in module (much like you hinted at with building roads on the bench).

[Black Sheep]

I love how in that photo it makes the railway look as though it's on a gradient!

 

were the pavements in position before plastering or put in place after?

 

Is it just normal household 'fill that crack and slap a bit of paint on it before the estate agent comes' plaster?

Edited April 25, 2012 by Black Sheep

[BernardTPM]

The moulded Peco brick sheets have sharper definition; I used these 30 odd years ago to pave much of the yard area on Brigenshaw. IIRC the thickness is about right as it comes to infill between the tracks without packing. The downsides are joining the sheets and filing the thick material round curves!

[F-UnitMad]

I love the "When it was all fields around here" photo..!!!

[Southernboy]

artizen:

Neat thinking - I may have a go with that solution at some point. Thank you.

 

Black Sheep:

Yes, I used normal everyday plaster for the roads. I'd probably look into better quality materials another time though. Pavements were positioned after the road was finished.

 

BernardTPM:

Thanks for suggesting the Peco moulded sheets - although as you say, the drawback is how to deal with curves (especially sharp curves): In this respect even the thinner Plasticard sheets can be tricky.

 

F-UnitMad:

 

"I love the "When it was all fields around here" photo..!!!"

 

Me too

 

I think my next layout will be constructed more deliberately to reflect 'the march of time' through a locality: ie. where I know it may be a year or two before I get round to constructing buildings for specific stretches of the layout, I will put in a basic representation of the countryside that was there first.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Southernboy

[Red Devil]

If you need a consistant grey coloured plaster, Wickes do a ready mixed patching plaster in a 5l drum. It's very easy to work and will smooth down nicely, easy to scribe, also takes an acrylic paint wash nicely if you want to darken it. I've posted this picture before so hope it's not a case of 'oh no not again' ! Oh yeah also comes in handy for sorting out bits of DIY too

 

[Black Sheep]

I think I'll get away with the tarmac being a bit patchy, probably will, if I've not mixed enough, make some sections to fill in later as though the road has been repaired, being set in '47-'49 then I'll explain it as repairs to bomb damage

 

with regards to shaping plasticard, (you may already know) that making formers and heating with hairdryer to soften or rubber bands holding it to the formers and in a pan of boiling water to soften it.

[Southernboy]

Thank you Gents,

 

Red Devil:

Good suggestion, I appreciate that (and am always happy to see pictures of your tramway, repeated or not!)

 

Black Sheep:

Yes, warm water or hair dryers are good for shaping Plasticard - but (thinking out loud rather than from practical experience) - are we thinking of scenarios where a curved section will be sort of held to shape by it being welded between other parts (like in a building or arch of a bridge) which ensure it doesn't warp or bend back out of shape over time?

 

In particular the infill sections for a tramway, whilst glued down to the top of sleepers, would not necessarily be wedged between anything else to ensure they retained their precise curvature over time ... at least that would be my concern, unless you were using 'proper' grooved tram track, which I don't think exists in N gauge (?) If it did then that's not so much of a problem.

 

I'm not knocking your suggestion ... just thinking it through out loud

 

Thanks again,

 

Mark

[Black Sheep]

I attended many useful lectures on modeling with plasticard during my time at Wakefield model railway club, one of their members used to build everything out of the stuff and had many molds for making loco boilers and could happily produce batches of them on a camping stove in the club house!

 

I've always been under the impression that once formed the plasticard will retain it's new shape, although some shaping wil be easier than others.

 

Speaking of plasticard, how are your pavements produced?

or has that been covered in an update i've missed when scanning quickly back through the thread?

Edited May 1, 2012 by Black Sheep

[Southernboy]

Hello Black Sheep,

 

thanks for the additional information: Still within me is some discomfort about infilling tram track with Plasticard. I can't explain it, and maybe at some later point I may be persuaded otherwise, but right here-and-now I don't feel comfortable with it - sorry!

 

As to pavements: yes, it's in the following post

 

http://www.rmweb.co....ay/page__st__25

 

Thanks again for your interest.

[0121modeller]

Top level modelling here, a fantastic achievement in N gauge.

 

I especially like those 2 girder bridges, the real bridge (bridge with arched girders underside) itself looks impressive in real & so your replication of that in particular is awesome - modelling at its finest.

[Black Sheep]

How's progress?

 

Looking forward to further broadcasts from Frankland

[Claude_Dreyfus]

I am interested to know how you are getting on with those Worsley EMUs featured a while ago. Those etchings look extremely fine, however they look to include the carriage floor, which may be an issue with motorising them...any thoughts on how you may get around this?

 

My interest stems from a plan I am formulating involving LBSCR SL sets and Wolsey look to be the only reasonable option available to me.

 

Final query...in some early photos - none of which are on this version of the thread, you had an early open top bus; the design possibly dating from the 1900s? Is this an available kit, or one of the old Lesney offerings?

 

Thanks

[Black Sheep]

this one?

 

[Southernboy]

Hello Claude_Dreyfus,

 

I'm sorry to say my answer may not be of much help to you...

 

I've not yet started on the etchings because I'm waiting on the N Gauge Society Southern Railway steam bogies to go into production before I commence.

 

The reason is that I've no experience in this area - so prefer to proceed with caution. I want to have all the components in front of me to work out how everything will fit together before I start. Once the bogies are available I'll order the other parts I need and work out how everything will fit together.

 

As for the open-top bus: It is a Lesney one, I believe a 1910 B type bus. It's a bit overscale really, so only featured in a few photos early on as a 'scene setter'.

 

At some point in the future I'll investigate further the potential of 3D printing for production of period buses, in particular both open-top and enclosed NS buses as these were quite ubiquitous around my time and place.

 

Sorry I can't help you very much.

 

However - I am very interested in the plan you are formulating to build LBSCR SL sets. They are something I've long thought about incorporating on a future layout and wished I had thought about as a background feature on my current layout... I'd welcome any further details of what you are planning in this respect ...

 

 

Mark

Edited July 19, 2012 by Southernboy