Frankland: N gauge Southern Railway

[bcnPete]

Another great update - always an enjoyable read and very inspiring modelling.

 

Many a time I spent my lunchhour in Soho Square grabbing a quick sandwich and a sit in the park in the sun - you have captured the building perfectly - perhaps a few pigeons required to decorate it now

 

Keep up the great work!

[Dave777]

Yup, top stuff.

 

I gave up painting N gauge figures a year or so back - excellent value with the Preiser pack, but the sheer tedium + fiddly nature just sucked all the enjoyment out of it!

 

Given your dedication to the rest of the layout you should have more patience than me though.

 

(I thought your figures for painted figures were a bit high, but having just looked it seems the little Preiser packs of 6 painted figures are indeed now £9.99 each - I was paying £5 and £6 around 12 months ago when I got a few packs so there's clearly been a bit of a price hike there)

[SteveBedding]

Then gardener's hut is simply outstanding, you have captured the essence of the building and period delightfully , this is a joy to follow... ...a matter of interest, just how long did you/will you take to paint the figures - it looks like a serious undertaking in its own right?

 

Please keep the pictures coming - especially those illustrating the construction - it shows us novices how things can be achieved

[Southernboy]

Thankyou everyone for your feedback - all very much appreciated

 

MrSimon:

 

The finest Microstrip I have is 010 x 040, the retailers I've used don't sell anything finer.

Do you or does anyone else know where to buy anything finer? 010 x 020, or 010 x 010 perhaps?

 

I did see the Oxford Diecast tram. It looks to be a nice model but unfortunately is not representative of those which ran in South London. But thanks for pointing it out. They are bringing out a Low Loader Taxi and Jaguar SS at some point though, which I look forward to

 

bcnPete

 

I much admire your modelling, so glad to know you enjoy my updates. That's a compliment indeed!

 

Dave777

 

My plan is to be a little abstract with most of the Preiser figures: Just get the general colours right for clothing and a splash of flesh for faces and hands.

 

A few I will detail more precisely where they will be more prominent, eg, traffic police and other key figures where the gaze is more likely to hone in on them more ... at least that's the plan.

Although I do tend to get carried away with detail sometimes, so that could be 'famous last words'

 

SteveBedding

I'm pretty much a novice myself - only been doing this three years. In terms of planning and preparation you seem to be well ahead of where I was at the start of Frankland. I think that bodes well for your plans and I've enjoyed following your updates.

 

I don't know how long it will take to paint the figures ... (as above) ... I guess it's a matter of 'watch this space'

 

Well thanks again to everyone who has commented. It really is encouraging.

 

 

Mark

[MrSimon]

MrSimon:The finest Microstrip I have is 010 x 040, the retailers I've used don't sell anything finer. Do you or does anyone else know where to buy anything finer? 010 x 020, or 010 x 010 perhaps?

 

Hi,

 

I got mine from GeeDee models in Nottingham and Access Models in in Newark, its the Evergreen Scale Models StripStyrene - it normally comes on a double sided display that looks a bit like a christmass tree - and for each thickness it comes in different widths. http://www.evergreenscalemodels.com/Strips.htm I must have imagined the 0.010 thick one There isn't a list of suppliers either

 

Hope that helps!

 

Simon

[PaulCheffus]

Thankyou everyone for your feedback - all very much appreciated

 

MrSimon:

 

The finest Microstrip I have is 010 x 040, the retailers I've used don't sell anything finer.

Do you or does anyone else know where to buy anything finer? 010 x 020, or 010 x 010 perhaps?

 

 

Mark

 

Hi

 

Slaters do 010 x 020 but the only 010 x 010 I have seen has been 010 diameter rod.

 

I used the 010 thou rod to create the ribs on the top of this wagon.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Dave777]

...Although I do tend to get carried away with detail sometimes...

 

Nah, you can never have too much detail! The only stage where I think it starts gets stupid is when you can't see the detail (eg, doing the back of a building and then placing it against a backscene),

[Karhedron]

That is looking very impressive SB! I saw the begginings of this layout on RmWeb3 but I missed its move to the new forum. I am particularly impressed by your 3-SUB, it captures the feel of the prototype very well. I admire your skill in crafting this out of the old Farish coaches (finally a use for them ).

 

I am looking forward to seeing the scenic work take shape. Like you I have a strong soft-spot for art-deco architecture and the work you have done looks very good indeed.

 

I appluad you for choosing to model a subject that you clearly love rather than simply settling for something easily available. You are well on your way to a unique and outstanding layout.

[Southernboy]

Hello Simon and Paul,

 

thanks for the pointer on Evergreen and Slaters - it looks like I can get 010 x 020 from Gaugemaster. I'll buy a pack next time I'm ordering and see how it suits.

 

btw - the wagon ribs are very convincing Paul.

 

Dave,

 

Especially for you the following pictures taken this afternoon. This is a small experimental section of road on the very right of the layout.

 

I wanted to see if I could replicate a section of road with cobbled gutter on one side, tramway in setts down the middle, plus a manhole and drain.

 

Here's an overview (looking under what will be a railway bridge).

 

 

And here's a couple of close up pictures ...

 

 

 

In particular I wanted to get the look of accumulated detritus along the gutters and around the drain.

 

 

 

I think the cobbles / setts / drain could do with a little better definition. And now I can also see the edge of the pavement should be rounded off slightly where it meets the curb, it's a little too clean-cut (or the gap should be packed with dust). Just thinking out loud there...

 

Karhedron

 

Thankyou! Please fell free to come back and comment again anytime

 

-----------------------------------------

 

Thanks again to each of you for your kind and helpful comments.

 

 

Mark

 

 

 

[Kris]

The edge of the gutter does look a little to sharp at the moment doesn't it. As you say rounding it off will help. Would adding a nick or two work, implying the something had run into it at some point in the past?

[Dave777]

Well this is all rather interesting because this is the very area that I'm dealing with on my own layout at the moment. Langley Models etches I assume? I've used a black marker pen to create the 'hole' underneath the kerb drains so that the grill stands out. Did you just stick the etches onto the road (I'm using plasticard because it's an elevated section of road) or carve out a bit of a hole/dip for them?

 

I too have been battling with recreating gutter litter! I'm doing the 1970s so I was trying to get stuff like newspapers and Cola cans and cigarette butts (okay, that last one is maybe a bit too much of a challenge in N gauge). Even road colour has been giving me a few things to ponder over.

 

Nice paving stones on the pavement. I used Scalescenes printed ones in the end, just couldn't find a decent enough embossed or injection moulded effort, so what did you use there? I have a sneaking feeling you're going to say you scribed them yourself...

[jackrob]

I think the edge of the kerb looks fine. The only thing that slightly jarrs me about the pavement is the line between the Kerbstone and the pavement stones. But seriously, i know its early days still, but the attention to detail here is amazing. Really nice to see especially in N. Also, are you planning to add weeds to the pavement?

[Southernboy]

Hello Kris:

 

I did this work a few weeks ago and it's the first time I've looked at it through a lens. So I'm sort of looking at it for the first time at the same moment as you. I think you're right that a little more smoothing off and maybe a nick or two would add more realism. Especially as this area of my layout will be the 'old town'.

 

(Most of the layout represents quite recent developments where 'crisp and clean' is the order of the day.)

 

Dave:

 

Yes, Langley.

My roads are plaster so I carved a small shallow to take the etchings.

 

The rest of my answer to your conversation is totally subjective ...

 

I'm trying to use 'Colour Perspective' thus my roads are mid to light grey, and I found black below the drain covers was just too stark a contrast.

 

Additionally I feel such details should be almost subliminal: ie. You barely notice them unless they are pointed out or you are really looking for them. Hopefully in the first of the three pictures I posted above you just see a street - it's only if you focus in that further detail reveals itself.

 

Newspapers shouldn't be too difficult to do - but cigarette butts and coke cans ... I'll look forward to seeing what you come up with

 

Road colour is again totally subjective and location/time sensitive. My solution? Whatever you eventually decide to do - do it with conviction!

 

The paving stones are just standard Slaters sheets. My frustration with them (and similar products) is the lack of 'bite' in the grooves. When weathering it's really difficult to get paint to run/stay in the grooves. You'll see in my reply to Missy:

 

"Someone suggested to me recently that in N gauge it's sometimes worth 'scaling up' the key features of a model, because otherwise in such a small scale they could be lost, and thereby the essential character or essence of what you're replicating."

 

So whilst (for eg) mortar may not be visible between bricks when viewed in real life from a certain distance ... that doesn't necessarily translate into what makes an N gauge model look 'realistic', because the eye and brain work in different ways according to whether you're looking at something in the real world or looking at something in miniature. They're not the same thing.

 

Well, sorry about this stream of consciousness - you just touched on a whole load of questions I'm thinking about myself quite a lot recently

 

Hello jackrob,

 

No, no weeds. This is the 1930s! People take a pride in presentation and brush and weed the pavement outside their house or business regularly. And shame on you if you don't!

 

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EDIT:

 

I said: " ... such details should be almost subliminal ..."

 

and

 

" ... in N gauge it's sometimes worth 'scaling up' the key features of a model, because otherwise in such a small scale they could be lost ... "

 

Contradictory?

 

Not really - things like drains and manholes you don't notice, unless you really look.

But fine architectural details really jump out at you, almost like a focus-pull.

 

That's the difference.

 

Thought I should clarify that

[Claude_Dreyfus]

 

I'm trying to use 'Colour Perspective' thus my roads are mid to light grey, and I found black below the drain covers was just too stark a contrast.

 

Additionally I feel such details should be almost subliminal: ie. You barely notice them unless they are pointed out or you are really looking for them. Hopefully in the first of the three pictures I posted above you just see a street - it's only if you focus in that further detail reveals itself.

 

Newspapers shouldn't be too difficult to do - but cigarette butts and coke cans ... I'll look forward to seeing what you come up with

 

Road colour is again totally subjective and location/time sensitive. My solution? Whatever you eventually decide to do - do it with conviction!

 

The paving stones are just standard Slaters sheets. My frustration with them (and similar products) is the lack of 'bite' in the grooves. When weathering it's really difficult to get paint to run/stay in the grooves. You'll see in my reply to Missy:

 

"Someone suggested to me recently that in N gauge it's sometimes worth 'scaling up' the key features of a model, because otherwise in such a small scale they could be lost, and thereby the essential character or essence of what you're replicating."

 

So whilst (for eg) mortar may not be visible between bricks when viewed in real life from a certain distance ... that doesn't necessarily translate into what makes an N gauge model look 'realistic', because the eye and brain work in different ways according to whether you're looking at something in the real world or looking at something in miniature. They're not the same thing.

 

 

This being a line of thought I very much subscribe to. In many cases what looks better to the eye is not necessarily exact scale size...sometimes correctly scaled brick-work or paving is too anaemic and lacking in definition. I also agree that colours need to be scaled...the smaller, the lighter in shade it should be....really ought to apply that principle to my own layout's roads...

 

Anyways, this is a very interesting and well conceived/executed model and I will certainly be watching your progress with interest.

[Southernboy]

Claude_Dreyfus:

 

You just preempted my 'edit'

 

How did you do that ??

 

Thanks for your feedback, appreciated

[Barry Ten]

Just gets better and better, this!

[Oldddudders]

More stunning progress on a theme to die for - and in N! Phew! Love the vignette under the bridge, and the coach even seems to have a Brighton registration? Is it a Bedford Duple? Slightly late in period, perhaps, as the chassis was built from 1939 - but you've already scratchbuilt trains, so allowing a year or two on the road vehicles is hardly a compromise worth carping about. I can't help feeling the 1930s gutter detritus would be different from the 1970s - certainly no drinks cans, and bottles were glass, but you got money back on them, so who was gonna leave them in the gutter? N gauge newspapers would be a bit of a challenge to most of us, too.

 

I remain dazzled by the challenge you have set yourself, and most impressed by your responses in the model itself!

[Dave777]

The paving stones are just standard Slaters sheets.

 

Slaters, eh? Let me look at this website...

 

0413

2mm Paving Grey

 

Grrr, how on earth did I miss that?!

 

Oh well, commited to the Scalescenes ones now. Good find for next time though, thanks.

[Southernboy]

Barry Ten,

 

Thanks

 

Hello Oldddudders,

 

The coach is an Oxford Diecast Bedford OB Coach, 1939. So yes, a little late for my period. But you're absolutely spot-on with your observation: I'm happy to fill the gaps with items which are 'near-enough' or 'approximations' until such time as I can come up with something more accurate.

 

Definitely gutter 'detritus' would be different, especially as the proportion of horse-drawn vehicles was still high and so much regular sweeping and hosing of roads to remove the slime (winter) or dust (summer) into gutters still occurred in towns and cities. Roads/surfaces/gutters had a different patina and hue then (at least, my observations of old postcards and photographs suggest this).

 

But the same sources also show little evidence of general littering - with one exception: Between the platforms of large mainline termini. There often seems to be an accumulation of newspapers and other rubbish here, especially around the buffers. So I'll be replicating this in the station at the back of my layout

 

Dave777

 

Glad to have been of help for 'next time'

 

Mark

[Red Devil]

Think the road surface looks great, what did you use for the conduit? I keep habouring thoughts of a couple of London trams in 'n'

 

Mark.

[Southernboy]

Hello Red Devil,

 

I used brass section from 4D Modelshop.

[Southernboy]

Frankland update No. 4

 

Welcome to another in our series of occasional broadcasts from Frankland ...

 

 

 

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Christmas:

 

A few goodies arrived at Frankland this Christmas ...

 

Keeping up appearances:

It seems the neighbours both bought the same model of car - two Jaguar SS saloons.

They must be quite well off, these are the top of the range 2.5 litre models which cost £385.00!

 

 

 

Most of us are lucky enough if we can even afford a taxi: At least there's always a queue of them outside the station.

 

 

 

But the best present was this one ...

 

 

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Pavements:

 

In real life paving stones are cut and laid to follow the curve of the road - and I wanted to emulate this on Frankland. I also wanted to avoid obvious joins between sheets of paving ...

 

To avoid obvious joins I step-cut across the end of strips of paving to create long continuous runs

 

 

 

 

Where curves were required I sliced 75% of the way across between paving stones, curved the strip into shape and glued into place.

 

 

Then the gaps were filled, and later smoothed off with wet and dry

 

 

 

Here's another one ... Two pavements that meet at an oblique angle ... one of which is curved ...

 

 

 

Add Microstrip kerb stones, a drain, paint it up - and I think that works quite well.

 

 

 

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Frankland Cutting:

 

My latest project has been Frankland cutting.

The walls of the cutting are concrete - but not old and grimy as we see them today - these are almost new, clean and bright!

 

I did some research on the different types of concrete - and looked at typical SR constructions (the Southern E-Group was quite handy for this) - before designing Frankland cutting.

 

The cutting runs through to a very deep bridge (like at Wimbledon - where the bridge accommodates a main road with shops each side - so it's almost a tunnel).

 

First up was the face of the bridge

 

 

 

And here are the parts with a wash of grey ...

 

 

 

ditto a section of walling ...

 

 

 

I then used a small roller (about 2" wide) to apply 'Silver Grey' Vallejo model colour. I used the roller because I wanted a stipled finished.

 

 

 

Later I rubbed the surface with wet and dry until it was almost completely smooth

 

 

 

Next I made some cable retainers from Microstrip

 

 

 

I also made some ballast boxes and drains

 

 

 

Water pipes run along the right of the cutting

 

 

 

Cables are strung along the left

 

 

 

The pipes and cables are all made from Microstrip and rod - and they took a long time! Anyway, as you can see - everything still needs bedding in.

 

 

 

The left hand side of the cutting and bridge facade are detachable ...

 

 

... which allows me to get up close and personal for arty photographs when I want to

 

 

 

I've added grass ... I particularly wanted that scraggy look, where erosion / overhanging trees leave bare patches.

There's a footpath worn in the grass where children cut across to watch trains go by ...

 

 

Trees will come much later, as will bushes (I'm thinking gorse bushes, with yellow buds, and rhododendrons - I'll have to do some research on what plants grow where etc). Fences are also on the list.

 

 

 

I've noticed that grass around manholes often grows more vigorously and is more verdant than that around it ... so I had to do that.

 

 

 

Here's an overview of the general area - obviously more grass to do on the left and right - but that's the bulk of the cutting itself done.

 

 

 

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Finally - the semi's now have lawns ... walls and fences still on the to-do list

 

 

 

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And that is the end of broadcasting for today.

 

 

 

 

Mark

[SteveBedding]

Glad to see Frankland is back Looks like you've been very busy in the interval and the wait for an update has been well worthwhile... ... though I do think the competitiveness in suburbia is going to come to blows if all the neighbours want the SS Jag (I'd have one in a heartbeat if I could, well maybe an XK120..... )

 

Please don't make us wait so long next time....

[MrSimon]

Hey Mark,

 

Love the work you've done on the cutting, looks just how I imagine the 30s bits of the Southern and the Underground looking when they were new - will have to find space for one of those semi's on Gresby!

 

Keep up the good work

 

Simon

[Oldddudders]

More surreal stuff - and I always have to remind myself it's N scale! Sat here shaking my head as the images scrolled up - this is so good. Share others' view that we need our regular updates/fixes on here. Superb modelling!