Mucky Duck Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 Has anything further been done to this? Ive only just found the thread, having located it via google. Excellent modelling! I have a Hornby body to play with somewhere down the project list, Im yet to decide whether to get the Brassmasters detailing kit as it will have a Brassmasters tender and Comet chassis which bypass a fair few bits. Hi Pete, thanks for asking… I've been hibernating! When it was confirmed that the correct tender for 44890 was part-welded, I was going to attempt the necessary mods but as the spring dampers are the short versions, I chickened-out, deciding it required too much faffing. So, the tender in this thread will now be designated to a Comet-modified Hornby 8F (more of that in due course). For 44890, I bought a Comet part-welded tender kit only just recently, so it looks like this thread still has some time to run… hopefully starting again in a week or so! As for your Hornby body, no doubt you'll know that Comet sells individual add-on bits, whereas I don't think that Brassmasters does, although the latter will always come in handy for spare parts. Will you be starting a thread on your work? It sounds a bit more involved than the stuff I'm doing and I'd be very interested to follow that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jub45565 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I do have a workbench thread, but its not got the Black 5 marching towards it yet! Well, not that one anyway. The next loco on it might end up being a whole hog Brassmasters Black 5 though... Currently there is a 4F in residence. One thing I wish I could find separately is an AWS bang plate, but as far as I have looked they arnt available separately anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold sjp23480 Posted February 13, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 13, 2011 I do have a workbench thread, but its not got the Black 5 marching towards it yet! Well, not that one anyway. The next loco on it might end up being a whole hog Brassmasters Black 5 though... Currently there is a 4F in residence. One thing I wish I could find separately is an AWS bang plate, but as far as I have looked they arnt available separately anywhere. Westward used to do an etched AWS bang plate - it was included in a number of their detailing kits - I had one in an A3 kit which went on an ancient Wills A3. I know Chris Parrish is no longer trading, but Puffers in Pickering may have some legacy Westward items on the shelf? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jub45565 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Thanks for that Steve - and sorry for the highjack MD - but was it ever available separately? Brassmasters detailing kits include one similarly, but being in the middle of an etch it isnt available loose. I suppose If I wanted a whole sheet I might be able to pursuade them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky Duck Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 Thanks for that Steve - and sorry for the highjack MD ... No worries, it's useful info and I'm soaking it all in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky Duck Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 End of the line To avoid the risk of boring anyone to death, I've decided to finish this thread by giving 44890 the incorrect riveted tender. She will get the correct semi-welded version when I've eventually made the Comet brass kit but unless there are any specific requests, it won't be recorded here. No doubt there are Comet tenders featured as part of loco kit-build threads elsewhere. I'd been holding-off on the weathering (my first attempt) until I'd purchased a compressor – a lovely little Testor from Eileen's – only to find that I couldn't get my very modestly-priced airbrush to work! One of the things I have realised whilst modelling is that cheap tools usually aren't up to the job. I've inadvertently bought some real rubbish on Ebay over the years… no more! So, without further ado, I elected to weather the loco by hand – a bit of a daunting prospect. I like my engines really filthy, as I never saw a black steam loco back in my childhood, they were almost always grey apart from the odd clanking rust-heap… usually a Dub Dee or Mucky Duck. I mixed a dirty matt grey wash from various Humbrol matt enamels and liberally applied several coats to the loco and tender bodies until the lining was just about visible… and then only in some places. The tender frames and rear platform received a coating of 'rust' which was then toned-down with the grey wash. The loco chassis was treated slightly differently, rust, dust or oily grit according to the area (the latter achieved with Carr's weathering powders and gloss varnish). Detail water streaking and touching-up was the final stage and the Black 5 is finally finished. Well, sort of… there are some minor details that still need to be added. I've tried to adhere to the mantra 'It'll do, just won't do' in my modelling so far, but for the desire to conclude this thread and move on, 'It'll do' will just have to do… for now! Blackening the wheels makes a big difference particularly on the Comet bogie. Loco was renumbered with Fox transfers before enamel washes were applied and rust added to the rear deck of tender Various shades of rust were used on the tender frames before being toned down. Carr's weathering powder mixed with gloss varnish gave the axle boxes their gungy-oily look. BR totem almost obscured by filth. Very difficult to avoid paintbrush marks but flattening between coats puts unwanted shine on the surface Rear deck of tender rust has been toned down and surface given a wet appearance. Springside lamp has been modified with fine wire handle Hornby's cab sidescreens were already broken (as is often the case) before the loco was removed from its box. New frames were fabricated from modified staplers and clear glazing added and weathered Another cruel shot. Oily gunge worked reasonably OK on tender axle boxes but not as well on the valve gear. Maybe I'll be re-working this Water streaking was done with very sharp colour pencil. This may be too much for some tastes but believe it or not, this Black 5 will be one of my cleaner engines!!! The slightly cleaner side; A gap between top of cylinders and footplate is apparent here… the loco also sits very slightly nose-up, so needs some fettling! Fox transfers smokebox number appears too big and doesn't account for fixing bolt space… or is it that Hornby's number plate is too small? Springside lamp is not ideal – apart from handle, the lens is a waste of time. Failed in an attempt to make a new lens with 'jelly' superglue. Still needs proper screw-link coupling and the buffer heads need weathering detail The Black 5 may have been 'as common as muck' but I've always thought it to be an attractive locomotive Looking forward to the next one and more control with an airbrush! Loco crew conspicuous by its absence Summary I feel a great weight off my shoulders as my first railway modelling project nears completion and I'm reasonably satisfied with the results considering I've never done this before. The Brassmasters upgrade kit and the Comet bogie really transform this model and both absolutely worth their modest amount of money. I made a bit of a meal of this project, mainly thanks to the Hornby tender which really is not up to today's standards but next time will be so much quicker as I won't need to sit for hours thinking of solutions. Acknowledgments I first got the inspiration to do this from Tim Shackleton's article in MRJ no. 138 and there's a slightly different approach by Gerry Beale in issue 184. The two books pictured below were the main ones used as reference. I particularly recommend Locomotives in Detail by the Brassmasters chaps as it's broken down into sections, each dedicated to a different aspect of the loco… very informative but I got it a bit far down the line to be most effective on this project. Finally, thanks must go to certain RMweb members whose knowledge, expertise and kind encouragement have provided vital information from their own threads (below) and helped with morale… so cheers! coachmann http://www.rmweb.co....ring-coachmann/ cactustrain http://www.rmweb.co....l__cactustrain/ Ben Adler http://www.rmweb.co....h__1#entry67006 Tim http://www.rmweb.co....__1#entry341928 BR(W) 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Looking really good there Ryan! Really like the gunge on the motion around the crosshead though. Might give it a go myself! Couple of observations based on some of your own mentioned. The Fox numbers for the smokebox plate are indeed way too big. They seem to scale out at 6" numerals, which is 2" bigger than they should be. I use the Modelmaster ones myself and they fit the Hornby plate perfectly. The latter is correctly sized at 7mm long and 2mm tall incidentally. The Hornby model has always sat nose-high and it can be pinned at the feet of the rear sprung axle. It's something I get around during rewheeling by preventing it from having too much travel. Not a pretty solution, but it works! I shall look forward to seeing the part-welded tender when you've finished it though. Nice work on the current one! Cheers, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Boring - no chance Quality stuff mon and lets see the real tenet when its done then B) Write it all up and try to get it published; seriously! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 You need a bit more filth on the step under the smokebox door too, the camera is very cruel! Very appropriately mucky for an LM loco, it looks considerably more 'solid' than a clean paint job. Why not be a little daring and bend a handrail somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky Duck Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 Looking really good there Ryan! Really like the gunge on the motion around the crosshead though. Might give it a go myself! Couple of observations based on some of your own mentioned. The Fox numbers for the smokebox plate are indeed way too big. They seem to scale out at 6" numerals, which is 2" bigger than they should be. I use the Modelmaster ones myself and they fit the Hornby plate perfectly. The latter is correctly sized at 7mm long and 2mm tall incidentally. The Hornby model has always sat nose-high and it can be pinned at the feet of the rear sprung axle. It's something I get around during rewheeling by preventing it from having too much travel. Not a pretty solution, but it works! I shall look forward to seeing the part-welded tender when you've finished it though. Nice work on the current one! Cheers, Tim I wanted to get some etched smokebox numbers for my locos but as far as I can gather, they only come with named locos, so I got a Modelmaster set for a Jubilee plus decals for all my wagons… but that was AFTER I'd bought the Fox decals. Sounds like another order from Modelmaster coming up… very friendly service I might add. Thanks for the tip on the springing too, I'll definitely be doing that as it really bugs me! Boring - no chance Quality stuff mon and lets see the real tenet when its done then B) Write it all up and try to get it published; seriously! That's high praise indeed, thank you iak, glad that you've enjoyed it! I never thought about getting it published as it's quite long-winded but in its favour it's quite picture-heavy, so I suppose I can give it a go. You need a bit more filth on the step under the smokebox door too, the camera is very cruel! Very appropriately mucky for an LM loco, it looks considerably more 'solid' than a clean paint job. Why not be a little daring and bend a handrail somewhere? I think the photo you're referring to is a bit deceptive, that is filth – ash from the smokebox – which can be seen better below but for some reason it looks far less dark and contrasty in the flesh than it does in the pics. Bending a handrail, now there's a simple but effective idea! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cactustrain Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Well done, Ryan, that's very nice indeed - I could quite happily use that on Byworth! I like a lot of weathering too and yours looks great. I don't think it's possible to overweather IF you use the correct techniques. Of course, it is a subjective issue. Best wishes, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LNER Tom Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 That is some stunning weathering Mucky Duck! I saw your pictures in the Gallery, and Tim pointed me to you thread I have a Black 5 I'm about to start work on, and your thread has certainly been inspiration on....the books in question I will have to look up I'll be come back here for sure Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR(W) Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Acknowledgments I first got the inspiration to do this from Tim Shackleton's article in MRJ no. 138 and there's a slightly different approach by Gerry Beale in issue 184. The two books pictured below were the main ones used as reference. I particularly recommend Locomotives in Detail by the Brassmasters chaps as it's broken down into sections, each dedicated to a different aspect of the loco… very informative but I got it a bit far down the line to be most effective on this project. Finally, thanks must go to certain RMweb members whose knowledge, expertise and kind encouragement have provided vital information from their own threads (below) and helped with morale… so cheers! coachmann http://www.rmweb.co....ring-coachmann/ cactustrain http://www.rmweb.co....l__cactustrain/ Ben Adler http://www.rmweb.co....h__1#entry67006 Tim http://www.rmweb.co....__1#entry341928 BR(W) Hello, Mucky (I feel first names are appropriate after all this time?). Thanks for the mention - what a gentleman you are. I have to say that the finished article is simply amazing; I thought the photos were of a brass, etc., kit. I said to myself: Mmm, someone's made a fine job of the excellent Brassmasters offering. One point about the elevated front end. I've had this on a few Hornby Black Fives and it turned out to be the captive brass insert in the body used in securing the front of the loco. to the chassis, protruding about a millimetre instead of being flush with the mating surface. I took a sharp, HSS drill bit (10mm or so) and, turning it between thumb and forefinger, removed the protruding portion. Having blown away the swarf, I refitted the body and, tada, the body now sits lower at the front, looking much more like a Black Five, and not at all like Fireball XL5 taking off. In fact, when screwing the body back on, it contacted the quite flexible cylinder block 'saddle' and pushed down on either side, eliminating completely the hitherto obvious gap on both sides between the steam chest and the running plate valance. A consequence of all this is that the loco. buffers, when compared to the tender buffers on level track, are now at the same height. I, too, suspected the boingy rear axle, but this turned out to be a red herring. Hope this simple mod. works for you, and thanks for sharing your impressive modelling. Best wishes, BR(W). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 You've put a lot of work into that Ryan and it's really paid off, a stunning result. It really captures the last years of steam around Manchester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky Duck Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 Having sat hunched over the thing for hours it wasn't until I saw at the photos that I was reasonable happy with the weathering job. So Michael, Tom and Arthur, your comments add to the relief that I haven't made a hash of it. They also encourage me to keep the momentum going and return to work on 44890's layout which has been seriously lagging behind! Thanks! BR(W), you may call me Mucky, Mr Duck, Ryan, I don't mind. I've acknowledged you because if it hadn't been for your suggestion way back, that vestigial vacuum pump operating arm may still be sitting there now… and thank you for the anti-Fireball XL5 tip too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Hale Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Hi, Did removing the protruding flange at the bottom of the tender have any adverse effect, does it locate the tender body? I am just about to emulate your example and was wondering if there were any modifications to the model that, with hindsight, you consider were either essential or not worth the effort? Thank you Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Hadn't noticed you'd finished this ! Gorgeous, absolutely gorgeous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I hope mine will turn out as well as yours - when I get round to it, wonderful stuff, congratulations on a great piece of work. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfy Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 What a fascinating thread and a beautiful bit of modelling! I have plans to use the Brassmasters 8f detailing kit so I'm sure this will come in very handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky Duck Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 Hi, Did removing the protruding flange at the bottom of the tender have any adverse effect, does it locate the tender body? I am just about to emulate your example and was wondering if there were any modifications to the model that, with hindsight, you consider were either essential or not worth the effort? Thank you Tim Hi Tim, hacking off the flange doesn't create any problems with locating the tender body to the frame but it creates a gap between them. This gap is only visible from low angles but really needs to be covered with very thin plasticard or similar (see post 32). Also, if you want to open up the space between the drag box and the fall plate (post 41), do that first, as it also creates a gap that needs covering. It may be difficult to remove the tender valance without damaging the original Hornby mouldings even if some may feel that the Brassmasters white metal axle boxes and springs may not be worth it. They have better 'bulk' and profile than the Hornby mouldings but the definition of the springs varies an awful lot. The only thing that I may not attempt again is removing the tender rear platform to aid thinning the body (in the very first post). This did interfere with the locating tab for tender body/frame and I had minor problems solving it. My method of creating the open water filler on said rear platform didn't help either. I would also tackle the lubricators and ejectors on the footplate (post 19) in a different way, but not sure how yet. Other than the above, I think all the mods have been well worth it and I may do even more with the next (8F)… It's up to you how far you want to detail your locos, all I can add is that you choose the model version that is as close as possible to the prototype you aim to create… I ended up hacking bits and swapping chassis etc due to lack of attention. But the first is always the most difficult. Best of luck. stuartp, Mike and Wolfy… cheers for the compliments! Ryan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 its a Black 5. enough said. OzzyO. I like it more please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky Duck Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 its a Black 5. enough said. OzzyO. I like it more please. As my modelling hands will be tied for a while I can do little else in my 'spare' time other than tinker with photos I took some time ago… so happy to oblige. Wonky screw-link coupling will be replaced with Exactoscale version when I get around to it Aplologies for repetition… this image appears elsewhere on RMweb The regular view I remember vividly as a kid standing on the coal bunker in our back garden. In the summer evening heat haze, a light engine waits in the sidings just beyond Woodlands Road station before slowly trundling off in the direction of Manchester Victoria 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iankemp Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Just found this thread by accident i think this is awesome how to transform a Hornby Black 5 in to something better! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iankemp Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Now i have got a brass masters kit for my black 5 i can now transform my loco in to the one i want! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky Duck Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Just found this thread by accident i think this is awesome how to transform a Hornby Black 5 in to something better! Now i have got a brass masters kit for my black 5 i can now transform my loco in to the one i want! Glad you like the tread. I still need to build my Comet semi-welded tender kit, which is correct for 44890 so it's not finished yet… one day! Well done for getting your Brassmasters kit… lovely isn't it? Hopefully you'll be able to avoid some of the mistakes I made! Looking forward to seeing a thread on your progress. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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