Lead safety

[beast66606]

There is nothing to prevent the risk-taker going ahead, once he or she has ensured the safety of the vulnerable: typically by going places or doing things where and when they are not present or to some practical extent excluded. This working principle has been reasonably well understood for some time. Fencing off the railway and controlling access was quite a good application of the principle.

 

I would also argue that the pioneering law-makers should be included in the risk-takers group. There is evidence of significant resistance to the earliest impositions of rules, whereby civilised life might reasonably be conducted.

 

I don't want to start wandering too much but fencing the railways is a bad example I'm afraid I don't agree that protecting the stupid is the same as protecting the vulnerable.

[James]

Good god, it's a wonder you guys set foot outside your homes! Seriously though, the greeny gobsh*tes and Health & Safety muppets have got young people running scared of their own shadows! You must wonder how old age pensioners survived wartime and post-war malnutrician, outdoor lavatories, newspaper bogrolls, asbestos ironing boards, coal dust in the home, arsenic covered fly-paper, and lead water pipes.... Fear not! Your biggest enemies around the home are lack of excercise, fatty foods, too much sitting around and believing everything you hear on the idiot-box.....

 

Brilliant

 

I'll add one thing about the HSE - I went to an ICE event and one of the speakers was the regional director for the HSE and he said he dispaired when he read some of things which blamed H&S! Cancelled village fetes 'due to H&S concerns', schools organising fewer schools trips and the like caused him real dispair. He said the aim of the HSE was that people went home safe and well - nothing more. He added that the problems come in when people are scared of the consequences if something went wrong, it was hinted that the compensation culture which has emerged in recent years could be the reason for this. He was a superb speaker and made you think that the HSE has a real role and the whole H&S issue is just blown out of proportion by scaremongering 'daily mail types'.

 

I think people do worry too much and sometimes about the wrong things - as Andi says strong fluxes may be a lot more harmful than the lead in traditional solders. Has an issue been missed? Common sense is needed for our needs within a hobby - well ventilated space in which to work, wash your hands afterwards and keep animals and children away from harmful substances.

 

My great, great grandmother, on my dad's side, lived into her nineties; she smoked heavily, had brandy every evening and lived in an asbestos house!

[Dagworth]

I think people do worry too much and sometimes about the wrong things - as Andi says strong fluxes may be a lot more harmful than the lead in traditional solders. Has an issue been missed? Common sense is needed for our needs within a hobby - well ventilated space in which to work, wash your hands afterwards and keep animals and children away from harmful substances.

The change to lead free is nothng to do with protecting the guys building stuff, it is a symptom of our throwaway society in an attempt to stop the leaching of hazardous substances from landfill into water courses.

My great grandmother, on my dad's side, lived into her nineties; she smoked heavily, had brandy every evening and lived in an asbestos house!

That's my answer too, take the risks where needed, it's the smoking that will be the death of me...

 

Andi

[trisonic]

Brilliant

 

I'll add one thing about the HSE - I went an ICE event and one of the speakers was the regional director for the HSE and he said he dispaired when he read some of things which blamed H&S! Cancelled village fetes 'due to H&S concerns', schools organising fewer schools trips and the like caused him real dispair. He said the aim of the HSE was that people went home safe and well - nothing more. He added that the problems come in when people are scared of the consequences if something went wrong, it was hinted that the compensation culture which has emerged in recent years could be the reason for this. He was a superb speaker and made you think that the HSE has a real role and the whole H&S issue is just blown out of proportion by scaremongering 'daily mail types'.

 

I think people do worry too much and sometimes about the wrong things - as Andi says strong fluxes may be a lot more harmful than the lead in traditional solders. Has an issue been missed? Common sense is needed for our needs within a hobby - well ventilated space in which to work, wash your hands afterwards and keep animals and children away from harmful substances.

 

My great grandmother, on my dad's side, lived into her nineties; she smoked heavily, had brandy every evening and lived in an asbestos house!

 

And back in the eighties I used to put 400 rounds of pure linotype .45ACP bullets down range every week, indoors.

 

Best, Pete.

 

 

 

[PhilH]

Nothing wrong in taking risks - we all do it.

 

 

 

Until it goes wrong of course.

[Mod2]

Gents, I think we're wandering somewhat from the OP. Conflicting advice and frayed tempers got the phosphoric acid topic locked - can we rein it in a bit please?

 

Thanks.

[James]

The change to lead free is nothng to do with protecting the guys building stuff, it is a symptom of our throwaway society in an attempt to stop the leaching of hazardous substances from landfill into water courses.

The legilsation is intended, from what I recall, to take into account the whole life-cycle of products. This is a good thing really; a lot of engineering projects have to take this into account now. But in this case the life cycle also includes the construction/assembly of the items too, which is overlooked.

 

That's my answer too, take the risks where needed, it's the smoking that will be the death of me...

 

One guy I used to work with said he didn't need a pension as he smoked forty a day!

[Guest jim s-w]

Um

 

Dont people wash their hands before cooking or dinner anyway? So we need a guideline for this now then!

 

Cheers

 

Jim

[Etched Pixels]

The lead regulations come about from several things

 

1. Lead is a toxin

 

2. Lead that gets into landfill ends up in the water where its very hard to get out, and very bad for those on the receiving end

 

3. In most situations lead isn't needed. Batteries and roofing are an exception and so exempted. White metal bearings are another, as are certain specialist paints, white metal bits for models and some forms of soldering.

 

4. Lead is directly linked to behavioural disorders in children - who aren't the ones who took the risk but the ones on the receiving end. There are statistically valid links between lead in exhaust fumes and intelligence, and even more seriously between metal levels in the body and propensity to commit random acts of violence.

 

So its focussed on stopping people killing whoever is on the receiving end, not on taking personal risks. In fact right now if you solder your DCC decoder in with leaded solder its fine. If you do it as a business its not. Likewise in Jim's example guidance and rules on washing and cooking are present in the commercial world (to protect customers) but if you want to stand in the loo eating your sandwiches while having a pee - thats up to you.

 

White metal btw should not be thrown into household waste *in volume* (small bits are usually ok - check with the council) or if you are in any way a business. You can collect it up and cast new things with it anyway. Less obviously if you have pets animals are not generally up on the rules about 'not licking, chewing lead'