Early Risers.

[jjb1970]

1 hour ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

 

There is probably minimal difference, except that the medical grade will have had to have had substantial medical testing; statistical analysis of the side effects (there are always side effects) and will have to be covered by huge levels of insurance- especially if sold into North America where any perceived defect is likely to cost millions.  

 

An additional factor is QA/QC and traceability. The medical grade stuff will probably have much more rigorous quality control and identifiers to trace it through the whole chain and to identify the rest of the batch in the event of a problem being reported. 

This is a big part of why engineering equipment for safety critical systems is so expensive, it's easy to pay three or four times more for a sensor or plc if you need the certification to use it in a safety critical application than literally the identical product sold for general use. It was a normal thing to be whinged at by purchasing why I was ordering spares at hugely inflated prices compared to alternatives they had identified. My response was that if someone signed all of the management of change documentation and updated safety integrity level and risk assessments I'd happily save the company a few quid. 

[Ozexpatriate]

15 hours ago, Grizz said:

The UK has a carefully crafted and developed, covert corruption, that cleverly hides behind the facade of respectability and reputation. 

Certainly. This system is at least 1,000 years old and is based on royal patronage and the aristocracy being set apart from the riff raff. While royal patronage and hereditary peers may be less in evidence today "the system" has been adapted for the contemporary great and good.

 

Most places have different access and security from harm for the haves versus the have nots.

[Ozexpatriate]

16 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

The story of modern Britain, the surveillance society. We criticize other countries but it's difficult to do anything off camera and communications are monitored too. 

Indeed. I always found ubiquitous surveillance in the UK a little strange.

 

16 hours ago, monkeysarefun said:

I remember when I was 13 or so, a   British TV series called "1990" with Edward Woodward starring, was shown here. It depicted a 1984-style dystopian kind of world where the government monitored everyone.

Don't think it doesn't happen down-under. My contacts in Queensland's finest have shared stories. It's less in your face than the UK.

 

Ubiquitous CCTV surveillance is less of 'a thing' in the US than the UK. Of course it is everywhere in places like shops / banks / malls / amusement parks / casinos etc. Most of these are privately owned and not a government asset. Street-level CCTV is (I believe) patchy. Private residence doorbell cameras are as common as Russian dashcams, but that's not the same thing.

 

The bigger question is how much electronic eavesdropping goes on. A warrant is required for focused surveillance, but there are warrantless wiretaps available to the NSA and 'random' electronic chatter is routinely monitored (as different from a 'wiretap').

[Ozexpatriate]

11 hours ago, monkeysarefun said:

However, the idea is to one day when I can get enough time off,  - or retire - is  to head up north then out  west, and experience this huge brilliant  country with a V8 burbling away in front of me , and AC/DC, Midnight Oil etc cranked up to full

 

... an empty country road and a V8 to use on it - and it HAS to be a V8, after growing up with Mad Max and so on......

Sounds more like a job for something like a Toyota Landcruiser than the ute, V8 or not.

[monkeysarefun]

1 hour ago, Ozexpatriate said:

Sounds more like a job for something like a Toyota Landcruiser than the ute, V8 or not.

I'm not taking it off the tar!

[polybear]

4 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

 

An additional factor is QA/QC and traceability. The medical grade stuff will probably have much more rigorous quality control and identifiers to trace it through the whole chain and to identify the rest of the batch in the event of a problem being reported. 

This is a big part of why engineering equipment for safety critical systems is so expensive, it's easy to pay three or four times more for a sensor or plc if you need the certification to use it in a safety critical application than literally the identical product sold for general use. It was a normal thing to be whinged at by purchasing why I was ordering spares at hugely inflated prices compared to alternatives they had identified. My response was that if someone signed all of the management of change documentation and updated safety integrity level and risk assessments I'd happily save the company a few quid. 

 

Does traceability make something safer?  In many individual cases I suspect not, though it does make it easier to identify who to blame in the event of an accident; it also makes it easier to identify where other components (such as a batch of dodgy bolts) may have been used.

 

 

 

[jamie92208]

2 hours ago, Ozexpatriate said:

Certainly. This system is at least 1,000 years old and is based on royal patronage and the aristocracy being set apart from the riff raff. While royal patronage and hereditary peers may be less in evidence today "the system" has been adapted for the contemporary great and good.

 

Most places have different access and security from harm for the haves versus the have nots.

It happens in a lot of fields. I saw it in Local Government where one party was in power and completely dominant. My colleagues in Local Government were amazed that I could turn round to councillors and say No.  Apparently a I've a certain level there was always an elected councillor sitting on promotion boards or selection panels.  Thus the officers had to be careful what they said and did. 

 

Jamie

[Ozexpatriate]

18 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

... communications are monitored too

I forgot to add the vast amount of location tracking by people who carry around personal GPS receivers that are almost always turned on. 

 

This data is 'owned' (?) by telephone provider/manufacturers - who are happy to turn over such information to government agencies when asked nicely under subpoena, though I don't insist it is provided as a matter of course.

 

There was an interesting study of anonymized mobile telephone data at the outset of the pandemic of a Florida spring break beach party in 2020 and where those phones ended up all over the country a week later.

 

EDIT:

And the internet obliges:

CNN: How the cell phones of spring breakers who flouted coronavirus warnings were tracked

 

(Video doesn't play, but the map was the interesting part.)

 

It's very illustrative of what is possible.

 

Edited March 6 by Ozexpatriate

[jjb1970]

5 minutes ago, Ozexpatriate said:

I forgot to add the vast amount of location tracking by people who carry around personal GPS receivers that are almost always turned on. 

 

This data is 'owned' (?) by telephone provider/manufacturers - who are happy to turn over such information to government agencies when asked nicely under subpoena, though I don't insist it is provided as a matter of course.

 

There was an interesting study of anonymized mobile telephone data at the outset of the pandemic of a Florida spring break beach party in 2020 and where those phones ended up all over the country a week later.

 During the pandemic one of the US state governors (can't remember his name, sorry) made a wonderfully well observed comment about the absurdity of people whinging about big government snooping in the context of pandemic controls while using their phones for everything. The interesting thing about the comment was it didn't really matter what view people had of the proximate issue, his comment was right on the mark.

[Ozexpatriate]

1 minute ago, jjb1970 said:

while using their phones for everything

It is the ultimate 'opt in' for surveillance. Though 'no touch' spyware for mobile telephony (like the Israeli Pegasus*) takes this to a deeply concerning level.

 

* And their dodgy "customers" who used it against journalists.

[Grizz]

Well that was fun, up at an utterly unspeakable hour. Took number 1 cub to Haywards Heath station for the 04:25 train.

 

Due to some unannounced, until you get to the actual sign, road closure, I had to do my best Dukes of Hazzard impression on the way up. Not a problem as there were no other vehicles down the back roads 03:50.

At one stage I even though that I might get that bit where the car freezes in mid air and your get the voice of the Balladeer (aka Waylon Jennings), as we must have cleared that hump back bridge by a least a foot.

 

Probably did less damage to the car than driving on that bit of road, as it is full of pot holes. 

 

Still he is safely packed off onto the train to the airport, with the next stop Hungary. Then trains to Roma. 
 

Meanwhile I’m back home and I can’t get back to sleep……🤬

My recent adventure in D.I.Y. Surgery using a Stanley knife and subsequent repair with Superglue looks like it might need another dose of Superglue, as it is starting to flake away. 
My finger seems to be ok, but I am probably going to have to put a plaster around it as I am back on shift today and still preparing for audit, so loads of typing to do. 
 

With regard to phone surveillance, switching it off and having a piece of aluminium foil to wrap around it when not in use or carrying a burner phone might seem a possible solution. Although having just read that back, that does sound a touch iffy! 
 

 

 

[jamie92208]

Good moaning from The Charente.  I've not drawn the curtains yet so have no idea what it's like outside.  It was rather wet for much of yesterday but bright and sunny later.  Today I'm heading north to a seminar on inheritance planning.  Sounds riveting but it needs to be right.  There are several potential niggles as France is not happy at complying with EU directives in this area.  I may even stop and watch trains for an hour or so on my way home. 

 

Jamie

[Ozexpatriate]

2 minutes ago, Grizz said:

With regard to phone surveillance, switching it off and having a piece of aluminium foil to wrap around it when not in use or carrying a burner phone might seem a possible solution.

Just turn it off. The foil is a bit "tin hat brigade". If you are not using navigation, turn off the GPS - though location can still be reasonably triangulated from cells, so there's actually no way to stop location tracking when the radios are on.

[Grizz]

1 minute ago, jamie92208 said:

There are several potential niggles as France is not happy at complying with EU directives in this area.  

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaatttttt? 😮
 

Countries not happy with complying with EU directives….surely not! Is nothing sacred? 😂

[Grizz]

1 minute ago, Ozexpatriate said:

Just turn it off. The foil is a bit "tin hat brigade". If you are not using navigation, turn off the GPS - though location can still be reasonably triangulated from cells, so there's actually no way to stop location tracking when the radios are on.

Yeah it does sound a bit tin hat brigade doesn’t it. 🤪
 

However if it is switched off and then surrounded by foil then it is a reasonable assumption, using the better safe than sorry principle, that it definitely can’t be picked up on cells / masts etc. Obviously as upstanding pillar of the community I wouldn’t have any reason to conduct my affairs in this way….😆

[Grizz]

Bear…well done mate. Keep up the good work. It is great to see you thinking ahead, what with all that Polar Ice melting….

 

 

ATB Grizz…❤️😉

[iL Dottore]

26 minutes ago, Grizz said:

Yeah it does sound a bit tin hat brigade doesn’t it. 🤪
 

However if it is switched off and then surrounded by foil then it is a reasonable assumption, using the better safe than sorry principle, that it definitely can’t be picked up on cells / masts etc. Obviously as upstanding pillar of the community I wouldn’t have any reason to conduct my affairs in this way….😆

You don’t need to go down the tin foil route, a number of manufacturers make wallets and phone cases that are, in effect, Faraday cages; obviating the need for tin foil/switching off the phone.

 

Whilst I, of course, am completely without sin, my good chum - Captain Cynical - can be a bit of a naughty scamp at times. He says he uses a regular phone and is (as he puts it) “completely vanilla on it”, for some of his “special” business ventures he uses burner phones and a Faraday cage type holder (even then it’s one use and “Ciao”).. He also added that it’s not good to be completely blemish free in your “public” life - as in certain circumstances a spotless record can make you “a person of interest” to the authorities (he claims). So the odd minor infraction (speeding ticket, parking ticket) is committed in order to keep him “boring”.

 

In regards to communications, he also added that he reckons that one of the most difficult codes to crack is one based on using books (there’s a specific name for this). It requires identifying a popular book that is likely to be found everywhere - such as a Harry Potter book and one that has gone through a number of editions - also like a Harry Potter book. You buy two copies of the same edition of the book of choice (say Harry Potter and The Deathly Hallows, 3rd edition) and your contact gets his/her copy. From then on any private/clandestine/privileged messages will consist of a string of numbers - such as 24/2, 3, 7, 14, 19, 22, 23, 24. Where the first number refers to a specific page in that specific edition of that specific book and the second numbers could refer to a number of things: e.g. the first letter of the first word on a given line (e.g. page 24, line 2, first word, first letter); the first word on a given line (e.g. page 24, line 2) or even the word as numbered from the first word on the top of the page (or from the last word at the bottom of the page). Very difficult to crack if you know the book and edition (but not impossible but it’s time consuming), impossible if you don’t know the book and edition.

 

Of course, you don’t want to mark up your copy of the selected book, in case you get some “clandestine visits” from The Secret Squirrels (or the like). The last thing you want is for some nosy “state agent” to pick up your copy of Harry Potter and The Deathly Hallows and notice some strange underlinings in pencil on page 24….
 

Make a photocopy of the page, decode the message, destroy the message (don’t shred, but burn to ashes or chew the page into a pulp).

 

And, of course, use cash!

[iL Dottore]

14 minutes ago, Grizz said:

Bear…well done mate. Keep up the good work. It is great to see you thinking ahead, what with all that Polar Ice melting….

 

 

ATB Grizz…❤️😉

At this rate The Bear will be up there with Arnold J Rimmer (Red Dwarf) who has a BSc and a SSc (Bronze Swimming Certificate, Silver Swimming Certificate).

 

Which raises the question: if The Bear is Rimmer, who is his Lister, Kryten and Cat?

[Grizz]

5 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

At this rate The Bear will be up there with Arnold J Rimmer (Red Dwarf) who has a BSc and a SSc (Bronze Swimming Certificate, Silver Swimming Certificate).

 

Which raises the question: if The Bear is Rimmer, who is his Lister, Kryten and Cat?

Oooooo oooooo bags me Dave Lister! 

[iL Dottore]

1 hour ago, Grizz said:

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaatttttt? 😮
 

Countries not happy with complying with EU directives….surely not! Is nothing sacred? 😂

Without getting too deeply into politics, I think that it is safe to say that a lot of the unhappiness with the EU before the referendum was due to Britain applying EU law and regulations to the letter. Unlike some EU countries (no names, no pack drill) who were (and are) adept at - how can I put it - “creatively interpreting the law”

 

An analogy would be that Britain was like a husband does exactly what his wife wants - when she wants and how she wants it; whilst some EU countries behaved like teenagers being told to tidy their room: they’d think about it and, maybe at some time point, eventually- sort of - do it.

[Hroth]

19 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

At this rate The Bear will be up there with Arnold J Rimmer (Red Dwarf) who has a BSc and a SSc (Bronze Swimming Certificate, Silver Swimming Certificate).

 

Which raises the question: if The Bear is Rimmer, who is his Lister, Kryten and Cat?

 

Its best to be a Skutter, go everywhere, do nothing....

 

[Grizz]

Well looking at my sweat shirt this morning, I must be in the running for Lister as I managed to get my egg banjo down my front. 
 

“…and that there is definitely biscuit..” 😂

[Barry O]

Ey up!

 

If you live in Britain and don't like the surveillance in place you can always move somewhere else. If you live outside of Britain and don't  like how we do business.. well tough.. its our little island.. you choose not to live here so.. 

 

Baz

Edited March 6 by Barry O

[monkeysarefun]

4 hours ago, Ozexpatriate said:

Don't think it doesn't happen down-under. My contacts in Queensland's finest have shared stories. It's less in your face than the UK.

 

 

I wasn't suggesting CCTV surveillance is unique to the UK,   just recalling that a TV series  made in 1976 (that happened to be British)  was remarkably prescient about  a future with CCTV cameras on poles everywhere. 

 

Most tourist areas here like the Quay etc are equipped as are probably most public gathering areas like malls in city areas, train stations etc but I still recall the  shocked feeling I got as a 10 year old seeing constant public surveillance  depicted, the realisation that everything you did was being monitored.

 

 

Then to top that off we had to read 1984, Brave New World, The Day Of The Triffids, Fahrenheit 451 etc AND around the same time the French were testing their stupid nukes nearby rather than do it on THEIR doorstep  so we werent allowed to sit on the grass according to our teacher in case it had nuclear fallout on it. 

 

 Luckily the sun was always shining otherwise my '70's memories would be nothing but gloom!

Edited March 6 by monkeysarefun

[Hroth]

@monkeysarefun But those books are essential training manuals for the 21st Century.  Just be glad you learned about the Surveillance State and the misuse of power so early in your life!

 

And another thing, I predict that the sale, possession and use of aluminium foil will be banned within the next 5 years....  🤪

 

Edited March 6 by Hroth
Another thort. Now where's that tinfoil..