Driving on the FR

[coachmann]

Never done it but I expect firing on the Festiniog Railways must be "interesting" especially with the long trains routinely hauled on that line. Apart from a lull around Tanygrisiau, it is a continuous climb from Boston Lodge, but at least oil firing takes the toil out of shovelling the black stuff. Having done a fair amount of photography and filming on the FR, the footplate crews always look fairley relaxed.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jordan-Leeds]

I lit up at blodge a few days last year and I found lighting coal fired double engines. Hard work being used to working on standard tanks and WD locos

[PaulRhB]

Nice to hear Lyd has potential as a result of the modifications to the design. Sorting out the drafting and regulator seem relatively minor, as Paul says just a bit of experimentation needed which is true of any (effectively) new design.

Hope you get to try out the resulting mods Paul as it would be nice to have an informed description of how she runs under load especially up the FR.

As to the lack of response to technical threads Phil I think the number of views is more important rather than loads of replies.

[Phil Traxson]

Never done it but I expect firing on the Festiniog Railways must be "interesting" especially with the long trains routinely hauled on that line. Apart from a lull around Tanygrisiau, it is a continuous climb from Boston Lodge, but at least oil firing takes the toil out of shovelling the black stuff. Having done a fair amount of photography and filming on the FR, the footplate crews always look fairley relaxed.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a different sort of tiring when you're oil firing, any adjustment to the drivers controls entails a similar adjustment to the oil controls. This is fine with most of the drivers but if you get one who can't stop fiddling it can be very wearing as you try to keep the chimney clean, the pressure up and water in the boiler. Even turning the oil up or down entails using two valves as the oil is atomised by steam as it exits the burner and the steam flow and oil flow have to be matched to keep the chimney clean and hence use the oil efficiently.

Although I have done very little coal firing, apart from 'Linda' when she was on the gas producer system which was a different kettle of fish again, what little I have done I found more relaxed than oil firing, but more physically tiring by the end of the day. You certainly have to think further ahead on coal as it is not as instantaneous as oil, but it didn't seem to go 'down the pan' so quickly either. In both cases you're ready for a pint at the end of the day!

Unfortunately due to personal circumstances I don't now have the time to volunteer and had to come off the footplate in 2005 after 25 years, just as coal firing was being re-introduced and I'm still suffering from withdrawal symptons.

.

Phil T.

[rockershovel]

By digital regulator I meant that it had two states ON or OFF and next to no easily obtained intermediate state.

 

It is not some new fangled DCC digital doins but a traditional sliding valve regulator which still needs setting up and refining to optimise its operation.

 

I've just tried and failed to find a picture I know I have somewhere of the regulator on one of the other FR engines which would have made it easier to explain so I'll have to have a go at doing it in text alone [if only to make the picture turn up the moment I press the send button]

 

The regulator is mounted as high as possible in the dome so as to raise it above the boiler water level to try an ensure that it only gets steam and not water.

 

The regulator is a two stage thing consisting of Pilot and Main Valve. The pilot and main valves are basically plates which sit on top of each other and which sit against the port face of the J pipe [the fixed pipe to the cylinders high up in the dome]. The pilot valve sits on the face of the main valve which sits on the port face. As you open the regulator by moving the handle in the cab the pilot valve gradually opens a tapered opening for steam to pass from the boiler to the cylinders. The point of the tapered opening is to get a gradual but non linear increase in the amount of steam going to the cylinders.

 

When that orifice is fully exposed the engine is in full pilot valve and the body of the pilot valve is now hard against a stop on the body of the main valve.

 

Further movement of the regulator handle now pushes the pilot valve body hard against this stop and gradually pulls the main valve open allowing much more steam to access the cylinders but this doesn't have a taper to its orifice as pilot valve should have given you the finesse you need and you should now be moving along quite nicely.

 

Incidentally, to go back to pilot valve you have to totally close the regulator and then re-open it in pilot to make sure you returned the main valve to the start position.

 

The regulator lives in the pressurised boiler and boiler pressure acts on the regulator body to hold it hard against the port face and because the pressure beyond the regulator is at a lower pressure than the boiler. This force also provides a resistance to the regulator moving.

 

To move the actual valve you have a handle in the cab which rotates a rod that runs into the boiler. This rod has a crank on it and a linkage up to the regulator valve up in the dome. The length of the handle in the cab and of the linkage between the rod and the valve determine the mechanical advantage your hand has for moving the valve.

 

In an ideal world, you open the pilot valve and it gives you enough steam to allow initially a controllable start and then to accelerate a typical train up to a decent speed. Small adjustments are typically done by tapping the handle in the direction, more or less, you want to go in. If you need to go faster you can then ease it in to main valve [by hitting it a bit harder] and you should be able to increase the valve chest pressure by as little as 5 psi. Even with a well designed regulator like Blanche has this 5 psi can be just too much and the act of going to main valve can provoke a slip.

 

In Lyd it has become apparent that.....

1. The pilot valve isn't big enough
2. The step in pressure between full pilot and minimum main valve is too much
3. The control linkages don't give the driver enough mechanical advantage to control the valves with finesse

 

Lyd was initially commissioned with its boiler pressure set to 160 psi and these faults weren't as apparent. It has now had its boiler pressure set to 200 psi which has increased the effect of the difference between full pilot and minimum main valve and has also increased the force resisting movement of the valves making the control even harder. This only became apparent over the Vintage Weekend as these were its first passenger runs at the new pressure.

 

The fixes, quite possibly done by now, are to increase the size of the pilot valve to and to alter the leverage in the linkages. The engine was last used on Sunday and is booked to work the last weekend of the month so it will be attended to before then now its gone properly cold [which will have taken until Wednesday]

 

I hope that makes it clearer. I made the mistake of assuming some knowledge of how a steam engine works, something I take for granted having worked with the FR engines since 1977, driving them since 1987 and having led teams rebuilding Blanche and Merddin Emrys. I would be happy to continue this discussion but can we please do so under a new heading as the discussion has nothing to do with handbags and the general consensus since recent regime change is that peace maybe breaking out with time being the only applicable medicine for now. It won't help to keep boosting this topic to the top of the listing whilst actually discussing nothing to do with handbags

 

very interesting to read this detail regarding how the regulator actually works, speaking as an engineer with considerable experience of industrial narrow gauge but nil experience of driving a steam engine. My 'footplate' experience consists of driving BEV and Clayton locos in 18" and 24" gauge plus eimco rocker shovels... a bit different and a long while ago!

[ngtrains.com]

Hope you get to try out the resulting mods Paul as it would be nice to have an informed description of how she runs under load especially up the FR.

 

Dilemma, or choice

 

• Spend a weekend driving Lyd as station pilot at Porthmadog
  
• Attend EXPONG with the EDM Models trade stand
  

 

I nearly said stuff EXPONG for a chance to play with Lyd especially as some good friends from the USA are going to be at the FR that weekend but commercial necessity over came desire [boo]

Instead I have had to arrange for others to host the friends from the USA whilst they are at the FR. Fingers crossed for a useful noisy outcome to their visit [cryptically they are from a Durango based DCC supplier]

[Oldddudders]

Fingers crossed for a useful noisy outcome to their visit [cryptically they are from a Durango based DCC supplier]

A veritable Tsunami of noise, perhaps....

[Mike Bellamy]

Dilemma, or choice

 

• Spend a weekend driving Lyd as station pilot at Porthmadog
  
• Attend EXPONG with the EDM Models trade stand
  

 

I nearly said stuff EXPONG

 

Do I have a choice - what would happen if I said 'Stuff EDM'

 

Just a few words of explanation - I help Paul with the trade stand at shows - ExpoNG, Bradford and Bilton will take 3 weekends out of Oct/Nov for me plus I'm at Warley as well

 

Mike