Ekon colour light signals

[panniertank]

It's me again! I have some Ekon colour light signals which I intend to install on my ground level outdoors railway. I bought these signals some years ago, and they came with 'grain of wheat' bulbs which need a resistor in line to stop the full current overheating the plastic lamp heads and damaging them. As these signals are now going to 'live' outdoors I feel it would pay me to replace lamps with colour diodes which will [hopefully] give a much longer life than a bulb plus running a lot cooler too! Does anyone know WHICH diode size I need please?

There are so many sizes of diode, so I need to get it right to save expense on buying something that is not immediately useable. I must admit, Im NOT looking forward to the wiring of this 'layout' So much cabling, switches, points plus ancillary lighting [for signal boxes, houses etc]!!! Just one other point [pun intended!] I have also some Peco point motors, which I understand are NOT suited for outdoors use - BUT I'm working on a way to build a small housing to fit the point motor in which will, to all intent and purposes, be waterproof. I will then fill the housing with a suitable oil [transformer ?] so the motor itself is immersed in oil with just a fine slit in say a rubber/fabric top so as to enable the thing to throw the points.

I tried to contact a company that makes pneumatic point changing systems, but they have not deigned to reply - probably too expensive and fiddly anyway!!

So, what think you of my point?

[96701]

Diodes come in many sizes, shapes and configurations. Have a look here. and measure your grain of wheat bulbs. Beware of hoping for straight replacements because leds are different shapes to grain of wheat bulbs and above all have rigid connectors instead of flexible wires, so fitting leds could result in a complete rebuild of the signal head.

 

I would question whether or not there would be any point in actually illuminating the signals. If you look at the real thing, and bearing in mind the 'viewing angles' talked about on the attached link, I'm not sure that you'd actually see them from any distance in normal daylight.

 

Be very wary of putting things in boxes. We have supposedly weatherproof boxes on the real railway. If the seals don't fail and allow rainwater in, they fill up with condensation anyway because of the lack of air movement and changes in temperature. Try to think of how your pitched roof works, ventilation allows air movement inside so that the inside stays at more or less the outside ambient temperature, but rainwater is discouraged from entering and everything stays dry. Cardboard boxes in my loft stay dry all year, but cardboard boxes in my garage get a little damp in winter.

[Brian]

Hi

I think you'll find 3mm LEDs will fit, but they may need the Rim filing down a little if you need the LED to go right inside the signal head aperture.

 

Use a 1K0 1/4watt resistor for all three LEDs (or Two LEDs) wired into the negative lead feed. Use Red Yellow and Green for three aspect signals Or consider clear lens types in thee three colours. Supply volts are ideally 12 v dc with the series resistor used.

[beast66606]

I would question whether or not there would be any point in actually illuminating the signals. If you look at the real thing, and bearing in mind the 'viewing angles' talked about on the attached link, I'm not sure that you'd actually see them from any distance in normal daylight.

 

I can see a colour light at well over a mile in daylight, a lot more at night, why this trend lately for colour lights not being visible

[panniertank]

Many thanks for your reply - I just wanted to know the diameter of the LED's as Ekon signals are quite well made with very tight tolerances in the lamp housing. I realise they will be difficult, if not impossible to see in daylight hours, but this layout is for all weather, all times operation and at night, they will be visible - besides, I hate things that don't function when the prototype DOES. The point motors? Well, if these things are sealed inside a small container and covered with oil, surely they last a lot longer outdoors. The only 'glitch' is making a slit in some rubberised thin fabric which will form a seal around the metal rod allowing it to move laterally, but also providing some waterproof protection. Now THAT will be problematic - but hey! If it's not tried, then it'll NEVER work! I take it from your reply you worked/work on the railways - so did I some years ago. PW work and RO2 [ train dispatcher]

Again, thanks for your help.

 

Diodes come in many sizes, shapes and configurations. Have a look here. and measure your grain of wheat bulbs. Beware of hoping for straight replacements because leds are different shapes to grain of wheat bulbs and above all have rigid connectors instead of flexible wires, so fitting leds could result in a complete rebuild of the signal head.

 

I would question whether or not there would be any point in actually illuminating the signals. If you look at the real thing, and bearing in mind the 'viewing angles' talked about on the attached link, I'm not sure that you'd actually see them from any distance in normal daylight.

 

Be very wary of putting things in boxes. We have supposedly weatherproof boxes on the real railway. If the seals don't fail and allow rainwater in, they fill up with condensation anyway because of the lack of air movement and changes in temperature. Try to think of how your pitched roof works, ventilation allows air movement inside so that the inside stays at more or less the outside ambient temperature, but rainwater is discouraged from entering and everything stays dry. Cardboard boxes in my loft stay dry all year, but cardboard boxes in my garage get a little damp in winter.

[panniertank]

Appreciate your input Brian - I will now buy a few 3mm diodes so I can get rid of the grain of wheat bulbs [i will give these away if anyone want's 'em when I start my 'signalling modernisation' plan!!!]

Hi

I think you'll find 3mm LEDs will fit, but they may need the Rim filing down a little if you need the LED to go right inside the signal head aperture.

 

Use a 1K0 1/4watt resistor for all three LEDs (or Two LEDs) wired into the negative lead feed. Use Red Yellow and Green for three aspect signals Or consider clear lens types in thee three colours. Supply volts are ideally 12 v dc with the series resistor used.

[panniertank]

Over a MILE?????? Man! What I'd give for your vision powers! Thanks for the reply sir!

 

I can see a colour light at well over a mile in daylight, a lot more at night, why this trend lately for colour lights not being visible

[The Stationmaster]

I can see a colour light at well over a mile in daylight, a lot more at night, why this trend lately for colour lights not being visible

 

Good point that - yesterday I was looking at a signal recently fitted with an LED head and the yellow is a very bright light indeed (in reality no 'brighter' than the other colours but there is something in the wavelength of the colour which makes it appear brighter so I understand from past involvement with this kind of thing).

 

Anyway that apart on a lovely clear day it was perfectly possible for me to see signal aspects which according to Quail are over 1 mile away (and they show up even better at night!).

[Grovenor]

Appreciate your input Brian - I will now buy a few 3mm diodes so I can get rid of the grain of wheat bulbs [i will give these away if anyone want's 'em when I start my 'signalling modernisation' plan!!!]

I can confirm that 3mm LEds will fit in the Eckon signals, that is what new ones come with and I converted my old ones with no problems.

Regards

Keith

[panniertank]

Thank you very much Keith. I am glad someone has actually converted from bulb to LED at least I know it CAN be done now and Im doubly glad because I do like the Ekon signals for their realism to the prototype plus I won't have to buy replacements for them now I can convert.

I really do appreciate all you fellow enthusiasts input and I'm very glad I found such a friendly, helpful forum to discuss all things railway! SHALOM!

 

I can confirm that 3mm LEds will fit in the Eckon signals, that is what new ones come with and I converted my old ones with no problems.

Regards

Keith

[Dagworth]

When changing to LED I would recommend wiring the signals with a common positive and switched negative feed even if used on DC. If at a later stage you decide to go to either DCC or some other form of electronic control this will make things easier.

 

Also worthy of note is that Maplins do a range of very high brightness 3mm LEDs which includes a "bluey" green that is much closer to railway signal green than common green LEDs. These LEDs will be very visible even in daylight, just like the real thing, and a much more pleasing appearance at night.

 

Andi

[BTC]

Just one other point [pun intended!] I have also some Peco point motors, which I understand are NOT suited for outdoors use - BUT I'm working on a way to build a small housing to fit the point motor in which will, to all intent and purposes, be waterproof. I will then fill the housing with a suitable oil [transformer ?] so the motor itself is immersed in oil with just a fine slit in say a rubber/fabric top so as to enable the thing to throw the points.

 

With regard to the pneumatic system - have you tried to build you own? I've seen it done with small compressors/reservoirs and syringes before. Cheap 12v servo valves are 6 quid each on E-bay so it would cost more than Peco based system, but with more than a few points it would end up being cheaper than a Tortoise based system overall as the compressor is shared.

 

Failing that, if you go for the electrics outside option you must realise that outside "waterproof" does not necessarily mean "watertight" - 96701 mentions the condensation problem - the best way is to keep the electronics at the top of a large sealed box, then drill drain holes in the bottom to allow air temperature/humidity to equalize and condensation to drain.

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

I can see a colour light at well over a mile in daylight, a lot more at night, why this trend lately for colour lights not being visible

 

They might be easy to see in real life and from the cab of a real loco but on a layout they frequently are invisible as they would be if you were standing on a hill overlooking the real railway.

 

Layouts that are mounted at eye level as some are at exhibitions, give a better view of the signals but you have to be looking at them directly. Facing away from you they are invisible. Semaphores tell you their aspect wherever you are. After dark of course even layout signals give a loom.

 

Not that I am advocating semaphores for layouts particularly as they are fiendish to get to actually work remotely and they are really incapable of being operated automatically or remotely in real life but in terms of layout visibility particularly below gauge O I think semaphore signals are visually better even if they don't work. Obviously, a steam layout would not have colour lights except very close to large towns.