Dapol HST

[woodenhead]

Surprising how good that old Farish HST was when you look at the two together, what clearly spoilt the Chinese built versions was the printed light cluster rather than the original insert.

[Revolution Ben]

Hi all,

 

I'm very happy with the Dapol Virgin HST I have.

 

For me, the real difference is the way it just "sits" on the tracks, and looks right. The contours around the headlights and the lower part of the nose especially seem to capture the shape of the prototype. The Farish model was good in its day, but I find the Dapol one has a lot more "presence" and when snaking around a layout, with lights on, it looks superb.

 

Certainly the TPM detailing set can improve the Farish model but the Dapol one also features vehicle-specific details - buffers one on of the power cars in the Virgin set for example - that make it the one to beat IMO.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[oreamnos]

It's interesting to read people's opinions and preferences, appreciate how they can differ, and be thankful this hobby is a "big tent" which can accomodate all of it! I read woodenhead's comment about how the printed on lights of the Farish HSTs spoilt their appearence, and yet back in the day I recall thinking (and I still think) what a big improvement the printing was over the gaping maw and poorly fitted glazing the printing replaced.

 

Were someone to give me a new Dapol set I'd happily accept it and I'm certain Ben is correct about the new Dapol's attributes. But after looking at the comparison pictures posted, for me personally it seems my circa 1995 or so Poole-era Farish HST can hold its own sufficiently well enough against the Dapol that I just can't justify the expense of getting the new one.

 

Another plus point for the Poole - at least for me - is that I can completely disassemble and rebuild it if I wish. Not having seen the innards of the Dapol, I don't know if I could do this with it but if it's anything like the current crop of N scale diesels which I have seen, I doubt it. Which I think is too bad, as servicing my locos and improving their performance was a source of pleasure and satisfaction I really enjoyed from this hobby.

 

Oh well, progress (of a sort) marches on...

 

Matt

[valeofyork]

Which version of the livery will the Grand Central versions be in? The painted sample which I saw at a show last year was in the new (orange-stripe) version, but the set now available for advance order on Rails' website lists 43123 and 43084. This suggests the old livery as the power cars were all renumberered in the 434xx range when they were repainted and fitted with new engines.

[woodenhead]

See here - it is the re-engined sort:

[valeofyork]

See here - it is the re-engined sort:

http://www.facebook....&type=1

 

Thanks. The roof on that doesn't look right - it appears to have a Marston cooler. The re-engined ones have Brush coolers with a different vent arrangement.

[43172]

Thanks. The roof on that doesn't look right - it appears to have a Marston cooler. The re-engined ones have Brush coolers with a different vent arrangement.

 

Also twin fans. Come on Dapol! The New Measurement Train, Cross Country, East Coast, and East Midlands Trains all have Brush coolers, and the First Great Western ones Voith, so if Dapol has only bothered to model the Marston then basically nothing will be right.

[bcnPete]

Have now test run my set (as straight from the box) and I have to agree with Bens comments above.

 

Whilst I was always happy with my original Farish, this does look great belting around my Peco set-track test oval (built for strictly 'running in' purposes only) - I haven't changed the couplings and it quite happily flies around the 9" set track curves and with the lights on really looks the business.

 

Overall it looks a lot sharper and seeing it on our dining room table is too tempting to buy an old door blank, and make my test track into an extract of the Dawlish/Teignmouth seawall with full length sets, which I have many happy memories from seeing them as a teenager.

 

Yes, its a lot of money, and I shouldn't have put it on the credit card....but then again...there have been a few things I have been waiting for so what with the new 26, Bubble and Farish 101 due soon, I have already wrote off 2011 as an extravagent year for purchases

[dave flint]

Another plus point for the Poole - at least for me - is that I can completely disassemble and rebuild it if I wish. Not having seen the innards of the Dapol, I don't know if I could do this with it but if it's anything like the current crop of N scale diesels which I have seen, I doubt it. Which I think is too bad, as servicing my locos and improving their performance was a source of pleasure and satisfaction I really enjoyed from this hobby.

 

Oh well, progress (of a sort) marches on...

 

Matt

 

Well, as a returnee to N gauge, poole means "split gears" and "jolly awkward to convert dcc". I have dead, stored class 40, 25 and 101 stock thanks to them.

 

My return to n has been prompted by the Improvements that Dapol and Bachmann have brought.

 

Having several Dapol locos, please explain how their running properties can be improved ? And why should you have to take models apart to improve performance ? They should have been good runners from the off.

 

I'm with Ben. I'm waiting for the NMT one (incorrect cooler group or not, lifes too short) but have seen the virgin model in the flesh.. it looks brilliant. The lack of gap twixt body and bogie is one major improvement that n as a whole has needed, and really lifts the models up another notch.

[oreamnos]

 

Having several Dapol locos, please explain how their running properties can be improved ? And why should you have to take models apart to improve performance ? They should have been good runners from the off.

 

 

The part of my post which was referenced may have been misunderstood. While the two Dapol Hymeks I tried both got sent back because of poor assembly, my experience with the current crop of d&e locos from Farish has been that they are really nice runners out of the box (if a little noisy) and I hardly think I could improve them. I personally miss that challenge.

 

One of the first things I used to do after running in a new loco was to take it apart. It didn't matter if it ran well or not. It was fun. With the Poole Farish, you practically knew when you bought a new loco that you'd have to take it apart eventually - it was part of the experience you were paying for. I enjoyed learning how they were assembled and putting the pieces back together. After doing this enough times I began to appreciate how slight differences in assembly, castings, machining and tolerances could affect running, and knowing this I could improve that and also troubleshoot problems. I was also able to do this with the first generation BachFar chassis, though to a lesser extent as they were simpler and innately ran better than the Poole chassis.

 

I've taken off the body shells of my Cl 24s, 37s and Warship. And that's it. Things are packed inside of the shells tighter than under the bonnet of a front-wheel drive car. I know my limit. I haven't even tried to take off the shell from my prototype Deltic. It seems too fragile for me to try.

 

So, yes, I agree things should run well right out of the box and it's just as well they do now, too, because I doubt I could figure out how to put one of the new locos back together. I'm not pining for the "good old days." I'm very happy to see models go the way they have because the I think for the hobby to survive and grow it has to continue to evolve from being mechanically based to being digitally based. But I am a just an old-school mechanical kind of guy (no DCC for me, thank you!). So while I think the new models are great I regret they are assembled in way that is too complex for me to take apart and put back together, because I thought that part of the hobby was a lot of fun.

 

Matt

[Dr Al]

I not impressed. Broken in the box and the decoders don't fit and it has a has a scale speed of 75 mph and the roofs look proper odd. Not worth the wait sorry.

 

Ditto.

 

Just got one and after 2 hours running in (in which time it's got ridiculously hot) I've just timed the scale speed flat out - it takes a whisker under 2 seconds to cover 300mm - i.e. one second to cover 150mm, or one second to cover a scale 72.5 feet.

 

If I round 72.5 feet per second up to 80 feet per second to be generous the scale speed = 55 MPH !!!!!!!!!!!

 

I thought it was an Intercity 125....and one once did 143MPH to gain a speed record?

 

Sorry, but I'm very very unimpressed - current consumption is high (250mA), scale speed is low (55mph - I don't know whether to laugh or cry......) and it gets very hot.

 

Poor.

 

Regards,

Alan

 

P.s. this is not being run on anything strange either - standard Peco code 55, nothing tighter than 14" radius, on a Gaugemaster D (i.e. a fairly bog standard DC controller).

[justin1985]

Scale speed is always a bit of a tricky issue, but would many modellers actually want their models to run any faster than 300mm in 2 seconds? It it was running at a "scale" 125mph, frankly I would have thought it would look a bit silly - you'd need a very, very big N gauge layout for it not to look ridiculous at that speed!

 

We've taken a long while and lots of encouragement of the manufacturers to get models that do run sensibly at slow speeds and are controllable throughout the speed range. The Dapol 58, for example, was trumpeted as having deliberately low gearing for slow speed running, and thus a low top speed.

 

While the HST should have a faster top speed, my money would be on Dapol's manufacturers in China simply used their initiative to fit relatively low speed mechanisms to all Dapol's chassis after being instructed to do so for several previous models.

 

It sounds like your model is a bit tight though, hence even slower running? I'd be interested to hear if anyone has noticed the high current consumption and heat?

 

Justin

[Roy L S]

Scale speed is always a bit of a tricky issue, but would many modellers actually want their models to run any faster than 300mm in 2 seconds? It it was running at a "scale" 125mph, frankly I would have thought it would look a bit silly - you'd need a very, very big N gauge layout for it not to look ridiculous at that speed!

 

We've taken a long while and lots of encouragement of the manufacturers to get models that do run sensibly at slow speeds and are controllable throughout the speed range. The Dapol 58, for example, was trumpeted as having deliberately low gearing for slow speed running, and thus a low top speed.

 

While the HST should have a faster top speed, my money would be on Dapol's manufacturers in China simply used their initiative to fit relatively low speed mechanisms to all Dapol's chassis after being instructed to do so for several previous models.

 

It sounds like your model is a bit tight though, hence even slower running? I'd be interested to hear if anyone has noticed the high current consumption and heat?

 

Justin

 

From other posts is seems that there are a good number of Dapol HSTs that do run at a true scale speed and some that do not. I very much doubt it is anything to do with a deliberate design feature especially given that the motor is running as hot and drawing as much current as Alan says, seems far more likely to me that the issue going to be one of excessive friction somewhere in the drivetrain. My Dapol 66 (GBRF early batch) has a similar issue, runs very slow and hot.

 

Roy

[robrailltd]

Ditto.

 

Just got one and after 2 hours running in (in which time it's got ridiculously hot) I've just timed the scale speed flat out - it takes a whisker under 2 seconds to cover 300mm - i.e. one second to cover 150mm, or one second to cover a scale 72.5 feet.

 

If I round 72.5 feet per second up to 80 feet per second to be generous the scale speed = 55 MPH !!!!!!!!!!!

 

I thought it was an Intercity 125....and one once did 143MPH to gain a speed record?

 

Sorry, but I'm very very unimpressed - current consumption is high (250mA), scale speed is low (55mph - I don't know whether to laugh or cry......) and it gets very hot.

 

Poor.

 

Regards,

Alan

 

P.s. this is not being run on anything strange either - standard Peco code 55, nothing tighter than 14" radius, on a Gaugemaster D (i.e. a fairly bog standard DC controller).

Well send it back. other s have mentioned they have got ones which run at scale speeds. if its duff get it replaced. Dapol have proven to be happy to do this.

[Dr Al]

Scale speed is always a bit of a tricky issue, but would many modellers actually want their models to run any faster than 300mm in 2 seconds?

 

Oh definitely.

 

It looks stupid with the top speed mine has. Bearing in mind also that if I fitted the light bars to all coaches (as I'd originally planned) this would siphon off a little of the voltage aswell meaning even lower top speed.

 

We've taken a long while and lots of encouragement of the manufacturers to get models that do run sensibly at slow speeds and are controllable throughout the speed range. The Dapol 58, for example, was trumpeted as having deliberately low gearing for slow speed running, and thus a low top speed.

 

But equally they managed it just fine on the 86 - I have two of these and the speed range is good - the slow speed performance is preserved and they have a good turn of speed, as they need.

 

I don't think slow speed is any reason to be honest - my remaining Farish units have much higher top speed and still can crawl.

 

It sounds like your model is a bit tight though, hence even slower running? I'd be interested to hear if anyone has noticed the high current consumption and heat?

 

I think the motor is shot - unclipping the bogies shows they are totally free rolling, and running the block on its own draws the same current.

 

It's going back on Monday for a refund.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[robrailltd]

or swap it for one that works.

[43179]

Hi all -

My intercity set arrived today and luckily I've had the whole afternoon off work to play examine it .

What do I think - well theres some lovely detail to squint at - the bogies - in particular the axleboxes - correct for the prototype. Even the safety mesh behind the bogie steps is there . nice delicate tooling all round etc etc - I wont go on and repeat whats already been said ..

Heres some pics of the Intercity version - seeing as no one has posted any yet, and some babble/my thoughts - Im afraid I can go on a bit about power cars cos I'm sad .

Side on - obviously -

Dapol have observed , correctly that the top edge of the white stripe passes through the guards van door runner at the rear of the car - (Hornby unfortunately didn't ) Incorrectly , however the red stripe should be thicker than the white stripe - if anything on the model it appears ever so slightly thinner.

 

Round the back:

The corridor/gangway , is , unfortunately , based on a very modern version thats been fitted to small number of East Coast Power cars only - and is therefore wrong for anything else. It should really look like this original style , as retained on a FGW power car

 

The door within the gangway on the model is painted executive light grey , but im 99.9% sure, on all Intercity power cars Ive seen (lots!) the door was yellow. Another small painting error is that the livery should wrap round onto the inner end of the vehicle - like this:

 

Under the inner end is a nice little touch -

The air tanks and electrical jumper sockets (dont quite show up in my photo im afriad) they go some way to disguising the coupling pocket a little more. The 4mm scale Hornby power car could have done with a slightly more elegant solution such as this. A spot of orange paint on the jumper sockets would look great B)

 

A close up of the nose -

unfortunately the stripes go a bit freestyle here - it must be hard printing accurate stripes on such a shape though. Aerials on the cab roofs would have been nice. The dreaded glue round the windscreen - ruins so many beautiful models these days - such a shame. I cant wait for it to go out of fashion - bring back good old clip fit glazing! Ive been looking at the picture above - and the model for a while and I think the headlight clusters may be a tad too narrow - as they should wrap round the nose a bit more - so that you see less 'yellow' either side of them. It may be the yelloe area is too wide , but I dont think so.

 

The cooling group:

Im glad Dapol didnt try and make the grilles see though - they look much better for it - i like the 'missing' slat in the bodyside grille - for the radiator drain i think.

theres a wee error with the cantrail grilles - the vertical dividing bar above the left hand side of the bodyside grille should be thicker - (matching the one above the right hand side).

 

The big question for me is do Power cars and coaches supplied with them match the Mk3s I already bought (I sort of half knew the answer already but ...)

unfortunately not, but what do others think?

It is interesting how many areas is trumps the 4mm version - which seems to be happening more often.

 

tfn

 

Jon

[Montafon]

Thanks for the review Jon! Mine is in the post and I can't wait!! It looks like a fantastic model, except the glued in windscreen looks rather rubbish it must be said. I've seen hundreds of Euro N models with accurate glueless clip-in windscreens that never fall out and in far more complicated shapes, perhaps Dapol should buy one and see how they've been doing it for the last thirty years?!

 

Regarding the grey colour match...unless it looks better to the eye than your camera records it then I've got a rake of five useless ones I've got to flog on ebay...not that anyone else will want them. Presumably when Dapol get round to the Buffet/Restaurant coach that will be an entirely different grey again, or at the very least will sit awkwardly amongst the older lighter grey ones too.

 

The complete HST will be my first and last Dapol purchase for the next few years I fear until they can get these simple things sorted. The HST should really be Dapol's flagship model given how iconic the prototype is; it's the one train people who aren't into trains can name (excepting Tornado of course!). So it is a shame that they've put all the effort into the details but then painted parts the wrong colour. The smooth drive mechanism and directional lighting are very welcome though!

[bcnPete]

Nice review Jon...you certainly know your HST's....and I thought you were a 50 expert

 

It's likely no manufacturer will ever release something that ticks all the correct boxes and even if they do, we all like to tinker with our models to make them individual. I guess in reality it's a case of what we personally find is acceptable or not and whether there are any glaring errors.

 

For me, it's a big step up from the old Farish...but then again, I am easily pleased

[woodenhead]

That front end painting looks like an afterthought - the pictures on Hattons are the same, perfectly neat along the side but hand painted on the front.

 

The Freightliner Power Haul 86 is much more complex as a livery and looks fine.

[43179]

 

It's likely no manufacturer will ever release something that ticks all the correct boxes

 

If we're talking specifically about N gauge RTR, and something thats a similar genre to the HST to compare , I think the Kato Eurostar , a model going on nearly 15 years old now still soars way above everything else and could be considered Perfection. Anyone who hasn't owned , or had a chance to inspect one close up is missing a treat. It could perhaps be the best 'mass produced' RTR model of a uk Prototype , ever...(any takers??)

 

 

So It can be done , as its already been done - Its just a shame that the Eurostar stands alone and that the Dapol HST could have been a lot better - Looking at my book set I think its going to go back to Hattons as one of the mk3s included has 4 windows without any silver frames printed odd - it looks proper weird

 

TFN

 

Jon

[Dr Al]

The big question for me is do Power cars and coaches supplied with them match the Mk3s I already bought (I sort of half knew the answer already but ...)

unfortunately not, but what do others think?

 

I've never understood this livery - Hornby, Bachmann and Dapol haver all produced coaches (now or in the past) with this light grey intercity swallow style, but I've never managed to find a prototype for it - everything seems to have the dark (almost black) style as on the powercar.

 

Did the light grey ever exist in real life, and if so was it for a very short time? Or is it simply incorrect?

 

Cheers,

Alan

[43179]

My understanding was a lighter shade of grey was used on the early 80s Executive livery - (as opposed to Swallow Livery) - when the coaches (and the power cars ) were branded 'Intercity 125' - but the difference in the two shades i think was more subtle than in my photo above - I have color photos of sets running with both 'Intercity' and 'Intercity 125' trailers together and they just look the same to me . In some photos the executive power cars definately look lighter. Unfortunately I dont remember seeing the executive sets in real life.

 

tfn

 

Jon

[Adam1701D]

When Inter-City rebranded to INTERCITY in 1987, they adopted a darker shade called Falcon Grey, which also has a more brown-ish tint than Executive Dark Grey. It was never really that noticible, especially after a few trips through the washer!

[Chris Higgs]

Thanks for the review Jon! Mine is in the post and I can't wait!! It looks like a fantastic model, except the glued in windscreen looks rather rubbish it must be said. I've seen hundreds of Euro N models with accurate glueless clip-in windscreens that never fall out and in far more complicated shapes, perhaps Dapol should buy one and see how they've been doing it for the last thirty years?!

 

Ah, now if they were into doing that we would have got see-through steam loco wheels from the start, wouldn't we? As well as crisper paint jobs, much higher proportions of models that don't need sending back, etc etc.

 

I like my Dapol HST (glue on window aside) a lot but it doesn't hold a candle to the Fleischmann 146 Electric I bought this week.

 

Chris