Dapol HST

[RWJP]

Picked up a FGW HST at the N Gauge Show today, along with two extra Mk3s and I have to say I am seriously impressed.

 

Looks awesome, runs beautifully (straight out of the box, and even better after running in) and not too noisy either. It certainly seems to have a lot more grunt behind it than the Voyagers did.

 

Well done Dapol, another great product.

[Stu from EGDL]

Hi Gang;

 

just got round to unpacking the GC HST duly obtained at Leamington. Lubricated as per the instructions and set off on a test circuit of Kato Unitrack on the dining table....(wife was out at the time!!!)

 

The power car runs fine, dummy car ok too with correct lights...happy with the finish with due deference to the small paint differences already noted. I am taken by the rather large appearance of the buffers...they do look a little large...may need further investigation.

 

Anyway, my main concern is that when 'pulling' the power car uncouples from the lead coach on every right hand curve. On looking, the fixed NEM in the power car sits raised and this is worsened when it is required to 'drag' the moveable coach coupling round. a quick fiddle with the power car NEM and swapping the coaches doesnt help.

 

Further investigation later....( when the wife is out again!!!)

 

Later....STU from EGDL

[Mike W]

Anyway, my main concern is that when 'pulling' the power car uncouples from the lead coach on every right hand curve. On looking, the fixed NEM in the power car sits raised and this is worsened when it is required to 'drag' the moveable coach coupling round. a quick fiddle with the power car NEM and swapping the coaches doesnt help.

 

A friend had this problem with his GC set. Through trial and error, we managed to find a way to swap the coaches around so that it doesn't uncouple. He does have the 2 extra coaches, however, and it took a while to get all 4 sorted out in the right order so that they didn't uncouple.

 

We have had to label the unit so that we know which ends couple of which in order to avoid uncoupling.

 

My blue/grey and Exec sets don't have this problem so I wonder if its something to do with the GC set only.

Edited September 19, 2011 by Mike W

[trent]

Anyone know when (if) more B/G booksets will become available? A quick look round all the regulars shows them out of stock.

 

Tks

Martin

[RheneasTeminal]

This an important question about the Dapol MTU HST's

 

I looked at one being tested today it had 2 tail lights but only 1 head light I'm not sure if its because it was DC being tested on DCC or its a faulty HST or Dapol made them to only have marker/head light if so then thats very disappointing, the model tested Dapol FGW First Great Western HST ND122f, if any one has a MTU HST please can you give some info about the lights?

[Stu from EGDL]

This an important question about the Dapol MTU HST's

 

 

I looked at one being tested today it had 2 tail lights but only 1 head light I'm not sure if its because it was DC being tested on DCC or its a faulty HST or Dapol made them to only have marker/head light if so then thats very disappointing, the model tested Dapol FGW First Great Western HST ND122f, if any one has a MTU HST please can you give some info about the lights?

Hi There;

 

I think Dapol may have made an unintentional error here...quite rightly they have modelled the HST power car with one headlight....this transcends most of the eras portrayed. Where the policy falls down, in my view, is that when MTU'd, the full scale HSTs now invariably travel with one headlight but two running lights (the smaller white ones on both sides). Dapol have not modelled these, instead using the same slots (correctly) for tail lights.

 

Although not strictly prototypical, I personalyy would have preferred both headlights to have been lit on the model...after all, it is easier to isolate/disconnect one if you don't want it than it is to install it if you do.

 

In this case, Dapol seemed damned if they do and damned if they don't by only making one style of lighting.

 

Later;

STU from EGDL

[RheneasTeminal]

Thank you STU for replying I was going to but a HST set earlier today but was put of by the lighting also the shop staff were unsure about it too,

I dont know why Dapol didn't use bi colour led red/white as they are widely used in model railways especially modern image

[Marty Mc]

Hi

 

Agree with you stu

 

In this case, Dapol seemed damned if they do and damned if they don't by only making one style of lighting.

 

That is a good idea Rheneas and I am interested in which UK manufacturer uses bi polar LED's and on which locos. Which bi polar LED do you suggest to use in an n gauge model small enough to mount on a PCB along with the other LEDs. Dapol may be interested.

 

I dont know why Dapol didn't use bi colour led red/white as they are widely used in model railways especially modern image

 

Dapol FGW First Great Western

 

I assume from the above the small markers were red and white, were the main head light is the same light level or was one slightly dimmer for day/night running. Did the power cars ever have paxman motors in this livery?

 

Cheers

 

Martin

[robrailltd]

The day and night healights on all uk stock are angled slightly differently. teh Day light is straight ahead to provide maximum daylight visability to track staff. the night light is angled slightly down and to the left. to give a clearer view of the track and of line side signs in the dark. FGW only use one headlight at a time usually with the only opertors using both generally found on the East coast mainline.

[Steadfast]

A quick post to illustrate the prototype, what is they say about a picture saying a million words....

As already mentioned further up, the front end sees both markers (LED) lit along with one main headlight

Day:

Night:

The tail lights use the same light position as the marker LEDs. I wonder if two LEDs feeding a single light guide might work here rather than a bi colour LED?

This setup applies to all FGW, East Coast, Grand Central, Cross Country and Network Rail refurbished power cars. East Midlands are the only people to use a different (3 position) setup

 

jo

[RheneasTeminal]

Did the power cars ever have paxman motors in this livery? (A) No but there were about 2 power cars in the old livery and neon livery that had the new engine.

 

I wonder if two LEDs feeding a single light guide might work here rather than a bi colour LED? Thats an excellent idea and would be easy to do with the amount of fiber optics available

 

you can easily get bi colour LED's from DCC Concepts and other places, the LED come in differnt sizes some are small enough for N gauge

 

here is the site that gave me the idea http://s374444733.websitehome.co.uk/class-66-9/index.htm

[Marty Mc]

Hi

I use the Nano lights from DCC Concepts, I was just trying to get across the point how hard it actually is for a manufacturer to do. Most locos purchased are still DC and you really only get the benefit of extra lighting when you move to DCC. I guess on the high side maybe 15% at most in n gauge are DCC, more like 10%. So a smart manufacturer will cater for the 90% and not add extra cost to his products to keep 10% happy.

Also the manufacturing process for a light bar alone to take 2 LEDs,on a custom build you can use fibre but I cannot see a way of doing it on a mass production level. Light bleed becomes an issue you need to add more electronics etc and the cost goes up and up.

 

Thanks EWSjo for posting those pictures, now I understand how they work.

 

Here is a Dapol HST with 16 lighting functions and sound. The instrument panel (driver gauges) has 3 working lights and the guards area is also lit. Not the best video as I was in a rush when I made it 3-4 months ago.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs2sOVac-p0

 

Enjoy

 

Martin

[Karhedron]

I guess on the high side maybe 15% at most in n gauge are DCC, more like 10%. So a smart manufacturer will cater for the 90% and not add extra cost to his products to keep 10% happy.

I think you are right. Look at the poor sales of the Peco Collett because people did not want to pay an extra £30 for the inbuilt decoder.

[RheneasTeminal]

I think you are right. Look at the poor sales of the Peco Collett because people did not want to pay an extra £30 for the inbuilt decoder.

 

I happily payed £130.00 for a Peco Collett because my only other options in N gauge would be a less detailed kit or a very time consuming scratch build.

 

It is not profitable for a manufacture to do something to keep 10% happy and these days manufactures, model clubs, shops and at expeditions modelers are being encouraged to move to DCC for the benefits, as posted before "two LEDs feeding a single light guide" will work wonders for DC this is only my opinion but Dapol are experts at preventing light bleed so no problem there.

 

having been to many model clubs and experience with different types of DC and DCC I am sure that some thing like that would sell

 

Also did you know That the forthcoming BR western class 52 by Dapol will be the most accurate model ever due to the real thing being (LASER SCANNED) which took two days to completely scan the whole thing this is expensive to do and will be expensive to produce but if they go on the shelves at £95.00+ I'm sure they are guaranteed to sell because they will accurate and there will be no need for modelers to buy extra parts to correct it,

 

I think some people will move from 00 Gauge to N just like what happened with the class 67 the Dapol version is superior to Lima, Hornby and Kits and look at the quality of detail then look at the scale difference, ok the price of the Dapol version is higher but for what you get it is well worth it, The only negetive I can remember was i a magazine review when it was stated that the light clusters look slightly over scale, in my case thats at an acceptable level can you get an of the shelf 00 Gauge class 67 with working top light no but in N gauge the answer is yes

 

The main point is if I spend an extra £40.00+

I will NOT need to buy etched name plates

I will NOT need to buy grills

I will NOT need to buy extra paints

I will NOT need to buy transfers

I will NOT need to buy lights and wiring

[Kris]

 

I wonder if two LEDs feeding a single light guide might work here rather than a bi colour LED? Thats an excellent idea and would be easy to do with the amount of fiber optics available

 

you can easily get bi colour LED's from DCC Concepts and other places, the LED come in differnt sizes some are small enough for N gauge

 

 

In the end almost anything is possible, but the problem that Dapol, Farish, Hornby, Bachmann et al have all got is that they are companies that have to make money. It has been stated before (by some of these companies) they they are well aware of the short comings in their models and know that they could have designed these out of them and in an ideal world they would have, but had they done so they could not have made money on these models.

[RheneasTeminal]

I brought a Dapol FGW HST this morning and I'm happy with it and would give it an 9/10 rating because of the overall quality if any one has any questions about this model I'm happy to answer them

[Marty Mc]

Hi

 

Very good point. It would be outstanding to purchase a model that was perfect in every way for most. For me I actually enjoy pulling them apart and adding bits here and there. Not to mention how many times does it pop up on the forums "too much detail on the RTR models" We are all different and each to their own. The manufacturer is in the middle trying to supply us with a model that most are happy with.

 

In the end almost anything is possible, but the problem that Dapol, Farish, Hornby, Bachmann et al have all got is that they are companies that have to make money. It has been stated before (by some of these companies) they they are well aware of the short comings in their models and know that they could have designed these out of them and in an ideal world they would have, but had they done so they could not have made money on these models.

 

You have my support on this I would happily pay an extra 40 now thats 2 of us.

 

 

The main point is if I spend an extra £40.00+

I will NOT need to buy etched name plates

I will NOT need to buy grills

I will NOT need to buy extra paints

I will NOT need to buy transfers

I will NOT need to buy lights and wiring

The manufacturer knows full well that an extra 40 GBP could reduce his customer base by at a guess maybe 40-60%. Again across the forums you read so many times people complaining about prices. 1/2 the fun is adding all these bits and it even better seeing your 18 month old son surrounded by what's left of a 800 GBP loco you just finished building. My fault totally I left the door open to my workshop!

 

Cheers

 

Martin

[RheneasTeminal]

I agree with you and I too enjoy pulling models apart and adding bits here and there it was after starting a new job that left me with less free time than usual caused me to forget how much fun it is to personalize models

[RheneasTeminal]

Tell me what you think of it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmEzqhFKJx8

[oreamnos]

 

Also did you know That the forthcoming BR western class 52 by Dapol will be the most accurate model ever due to the real thing being (LASER SCANNED) which took two days to completely scan the whole thing this is expensive to do and will be expensive to produce but if they go on the shelves at £95.00+ I'm sure they are guaranteed to sell because they will accurate and there will be no need for modelers to buy extra parts to correct it,

 

 

Guaranteed to sell? At 95 quid? Srlsly?

 

My apologies for veering off the subject a bit, but if Dapol's Cl 52 hits the shelves at £95.00 or more I don't care how perfect and wonderful it might be - at that price, I am not buying one. I dare say there are others out there with that view. I hope Dapol is listening.

 

There is a price point where I cannot justify a purchase. I'm sure this is true for others, too, just as I'm sure this point is higher for some, lower for others. But at the end of the day none of us "need" a new Western. Sure, I would like one, but at £95 my old Farish Westerns start to look perfectly serviceable!

 

Matt

[frobisher]

 

Guaranteed to sell? At 95 quid? Srlsly?

 

It's a Western - if it's significantly better than what has gone before it will fly off the shelves. It's not like a £95 RRP is that dissimilar to the RRPs of the existing Farish range...

 

371-601A Class 42 Warship D827 'Kelly' BR Blue Full Yellow Ends £ 99.95

 

Was cut'n'paste directly from Farish's website...

[Tricky-CRS]

£95 is a fair price for a modern designed Loco. It has been discussed before that if you apply VAT increases, inflation, raw material price rises, increased wages, increased shipping costs, increased customs tax to a model launched in the 70's you will probably come to a price higher than £100.

 

One other comment to make is look at how much fuel has gone up during the last 3years of recession, in that time I have had a 28% pay cut and no pay rise on the horizon.

 

Why should the model manufactures reduce margins because other Bussiness are bleeding us dry, with massive profits. Dapol and Farish are small bussiness, with possible low profits, that help keep people employed.

 

Apologies for going on a rant and of subject.

 

The HST looks great and I get a B/G when next batch are released.

[bcnPete]

I tend to order all my locos from Hattons who usually have a pretty good pre-order prices, the Westerns being £83...an improvement on the quoted prices above...

 

BOT - That full length FGW HST looks great - Thanks for posting that.

[Roy L S]

 

Guaranteed to sell? At 95 quid? Srlsly?

 

My apologies for veering off the subject a bit, but if Dapol's Cl 52 hits the shelves at £95.00 or more I don't care how perfect and wonderful it might be - at that price, I am not buying one. I dare say there are others out there with that view. I hope Dapol is listening.

 

There is a price point where I cannot justify a purchase. I'm sure this is true for others, too, just as I'm sure this point is higher for some, lower for others. But at the end of the day none of us "need" a new Western. Sure, I would like one, but at £95 my old Farish Westerns start to look perfectly serviceable!

 

Matt

 

Hi Matt

 

Yes, there will always be a price-point, but I am in the camp of being prepared to pay more for a better quality more accuarate model which is what we are thankfully largely seeing these days. I just buy less of them.

 

You can still shop around and as has been mentioned elsewhere some dealers do very keen preorder prices like for example £111 at Hattons for the exquisite Farish A1 which lists at £136 odd.

 

Costs are rising, margins are not getting bigger, higher price these days will typically relate to increased cost not greater margin.

 

The Dapol 26 is £76 from Hattons (Where I have preordered my green one from) the list price is a bit more (£90 ish?) but it is a beautiful model and the quality reflects in the price (along with the things I mentioned above).

 

There is an old Yorkshire saying which I subscribe to fully - "you don't get owt for nowt"

 

Of course, as you say you can still, in the case of the Western probably pick up the old Farish model cheaper but in truth the cost differential is probably going to be fairly minimal. Not a comparison of Westerns specifically, true, but if we take Hattons as an example - old non DCC non lighted Class 25 - £64. Preorder price for new DCC ready Class 24 with lights, headcode discs etc is the same.

 

Do I think £95 for a really good highly detailed Western which is accurate, DCC ready and with lights is too much? No, not personally, and if I wanted one (which I do not) I would pay that price, I suspect the majority would too.

 

Regards

 

Roy

[arran]

HI All

 

You could ask whats the correct price for any product!!!!

 

You only have to see who is happy with a Hornby Railroad Scotsman compared to the full spec one, it depends what you want out the hobby, but one things for sure new models will keep getting more expensive.

 

I always wonder what the people do for a job themselves that constantly moan about price.

 

Regards Arran