Multi time periods or locations

[sulzer27jd]

I have always had trouble nailing down an exact period and/or location to model. I have recently been thinking about running different time periods on the same layout as an alternative to a second project.

 

Here's my puzzle - the layout is not a prototype location but is modelled roughly on an area (ECML through Fife) and is usually set in the early to mid 1980's. So I have concrete track and was planing on colour light signals. By doing so I pretty much exclude the use of earlier eras. I have photographs of steam running on concrete track so a lot depends on the signalling. Ti suppose there will always be a compromise and in this case it looks like it would be around the signalling.

 

Many years ago on a very small exhibition layout I used a stock box system. 2 locos, 2 coaches and 2 dozen wagons. The period and location varied throughout the day depending on whose stock was running but it was great fun.

 

All of this got me thinking. Do others run their layout using more than one time period? Or what about more than one location?

 

Does this sort of thing add or detract from a layout? Does it matter if you are enjoying yourself?

 

I look forward to your thoughts.

 

JD

[pirouets]

I am attempting a line through a piece of the Devon countryside with a key purpose of it being that I can add other eras should I choose to. I started with 50s steam but the quality of N gauge diesel products has taken over and most of the steam stuff has been sold on.

 

I am currently planning the layout to run in the 60's as green and early 70s with blue, but I do have an idea of running some late 90s trains as the idea of a Virgin Voyager through the countryside appeals to me. (Lottery win permitting)

 

For me the issue is wooden sleepered track with the 90s option but its my train set and I can live with that idea.

[shortliner]

Since I have all the 4 locos that ran on East 149th Street "Harlem Station", I can change time periods easily - the rail wagons in use changed little over the yards lifetime, so it really involves a swap of road vehicles and the loco, to make the change

[10800]

It's common enough to have different time periods within (say) 10 years to take advantage of different coach liveries for example without having to change any infrastructure. The 1950s is a good example where you can have blood & custard in the first half and more maroon, green etc in the second. It's up to you if you want to prevent a train from the early 50s being on scene at the same time as a late 50s one.

 

As for locations, I am planning a fun 00 roundy roundy (Tawbridge, see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/blog/34-tawbridge-00-roundy-roundy/ which has just countryside, no identifiable infrastructure at all - only the backdrop would irrevocably place it in Devon. I had thought of the possibility of having interchangeable backdrops to allow for alternative locations, such as the Scottish borders for a Waverley flavour.

[Glorious NSE]

We have run RS Tower in various era's from the 60s to the present, apart from the town water tower very little changes apart from trains and road vehicles, there will be some anachronism but less than you'd think, and we probably get away with more as a foreign prototype with a lot of rural scenery. With some combinations of modules we're even happy to take it back to the late 50s.

 

Neil Rogers' Oakdale module circa 2001:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28702406@N06/4256861895/in/set-72157624146112422/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28702406@N06/4257621400/in/set-72157624146112422/

 

Neil Rogers' Oakdale module circa 1958:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28702406@N06/5026263370/in/set-72157624146112422/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28702406@N06/5026263604/in/set-72157624146112422/

 

Our era's for the main layout are roughly defined by some criteria (which do include some big generalisations!) that I came up with:

 

1965-1980 - Defining feature ending this era is the bankruptcy of Rock Island, other definitions being the focus on primarily carload railroading, and "70s style" intermodal with it's emphasis on long flats with 40' trailers. Railroads ditch the passenger trains and Amtrak takes up the slack with it's initial rainbow fleet.

 

1985-1995 - Classic 2nd gen railroading before the mega-mergers changed the face of things - as such the defining features ending the era are BN+ATSF merger and the UP+CNW+SP mergers in the mid 90s. Intermodal comes of age with spines and stacks, and unit trains are making more of an impact on the old carload style of railroading. Amtrak shows off it's most stable era - F40s, Phase 3 paint, superliners and Amfleets.

 

1995-1999 - Early mega-mergers - defining end features are the Conrail split and the CN purchase of IC - the two big mega-merged Western roads, both with largely mixed-up pre-merger stock but still three big roads in the East. Amtrak tries mixed trains.

 

2000+ - 2 big railroads in the East, both patching and repainting their ex Conrail machines - 2 big railroads in the West both patching and painting their ex-merged machines. Yellow stripes start to make an impact. DPU's start making an impact even on flat bits of railroad, and yes, even more unit trains.

[LN Lancs]

I also enjoy running different eras, either 1950s (blood and custard) or 1960s (maroon and blue and grey). However if you start going for the 1980s and later as well the infrastrucure does begin to look out of place. Yet it's your railway so you can do whatever you want.

[Kris]

If you're running at home then I think that multi eras are a great way to go it allows for the magpie in you. For exhibitions though it needs some very careful thought.

It's not something that I do at the moment (running a preserved line) but it is something that I am considering for the next layout. I am still undecided about this as I have seen some layouts on which this is done and where it has not worked. If you do do it please make sure that you don't run trains from different time periods at the same time at an exhibition. To me there is little that looks worst than an HST passing a Black 5 whilst Rocket shunts in the yard*. Seeing this destroys the illusion, however running the HST can run and once off scene the Black 5 can steam past to make way for Rocket to deliver some wagons to the yard a moment or so later.

 

 

 

* Obviously a little bit of exaggeration here

[petethemole]

My project for a loft layout, still at the stage of planning, buying stock/track and building kits, is loosely based on Weymouth, a GWR/SR joint terminus. I plan to run stock from the early 1930s to circa 1950 in period-specific sessions. Very little change to infrastructure will be needed apart from removing station and signalbox nameboards for WW2 and probably having easily changed billboards. A Skaledale pillbox will be on an removeable scenic module for pre-war. Road vehicles will obviously change.

Pete

[Oldddudders]

My take is a little different. I have a medium size HO US layout, set in the early '50s. I have now ripped up one section about 18' long, and relayed it in Peco Code 75. This will now be scenicked as West Devon Southern Railway/BR Southern Region i.e. 40s/50s. As the track is compatible (Code 75 and 83 don't really argue with each other) I have a pair of connected layouts each acting as fiddle yard to the other. Rock Island streamliners and Rio Grande mallets will sit in West Devon waiting their turn in Colorado, while in the Columbine State T9s and Ns, and rather a lot of Hornby Maunsells will, on other days, prepare to take their bow on the Withered Arm.

[Allegheny1600]

Ahem!

'Fraid I do this probably rather more than I should!

From Left to Right;

00 Heljan 'Western'(C-C), H0 NSWGR AD60 Beyer Garratt (4-8-4, 4-8-4), H0 C&O T1 (2-10-4) & H0 R4C class 66 (Co-Co)!!! :lol: Oh! and in the distance, a H0 KCS SD60 (C-C)!

That's 2 scales, 3 continents, 4 countries and 5 different time periods - in one shot!

A pity I didn't include any of my K.Bay.sts.B H0 stock or my 0n30 'goose' - that would have been even more of a mix-up!

It's all good fun, though!

Cheers,

John E.

[RW James]

I am part of a project at the local railroad museum. It will be an operating display 35 feet long depicting a section of track in our state that really hasn't change much in the last 100 years. That way we run early 20th century steam, and then next an Amtrak. Admittedly, the track plan is a little boring from an operational aspect, but it wasn't intended to be fun for us, but rather informative for the visitors.

[Anglian]

Your question is one that drives me to distraction. I have limited budget and space (don't we all) and failing to find a really satisfactory answer has prevented me from progressing beyond the glorified train set stage. My own interests are wildly conflicting but essentially LMS 1930's and the Pre-group Southern companies and whilst some sort of tie up between them like Templecombe could be a possible resolution I don't have the space for such a grand gesture nor does it really appeal geographically in the way the conflicting landscapes of Sussex and the Peak District do.

 

I'm of the firm opinion that those layouts that I find the most interesting and visually satisfying are those where there is very little leeway in historical or geographical approach. However, there are a number of possible solutions that appeal to me that may work for you:

 

1) An approach that David Jenkinson called the 'The Norris model museum approach' could be used where two locations and a range of rolling stock from wildly different parts of the country are used although doing so means the possibility of realistic services between them isn't really a viable an option.

 

2) Strictly model one location with say a ten year time frame as the main layout but store other trains from other eras and regions out of sight. Of course they do run but must be kept out of sight so as not the detract from the overall look. This was the David Jenkinson's approach to his own layout and the one I tend to favour. In doing so you just have to choose your single favourite era and location and that is where its gets harder.

 

3) Model in a very generic non era, non geographical way – however, for me this this never really convinces as its the details like signals and track formation that are as important in giving character and believability as the trains themselves.

 

Of course its your layout to do with as you wish but in the past I have done exactly that and it fails to satisfy me from an historical railway modeling perspective.

[edcayton]

My time period is a flexible 1960. I have stock from most parts of the country. I tend to sort of start with the Southern, then blend in Western stuff, on to Midland and finally Eastern.

I think that the defining loco's are the Duchess, and the A4 and production Deltic (told you it was a flexible 1960!) mean WCML and ECML respectively.

I try not to commit howlers, and as signalling and scenery are conspicious by their absence they don't give the game away.

Road vehicles also are c1960 (which allows the pink 1959 Cadillac imported by the local wide boy) but with the exception of vehicles owned by my Dad or me. My 1995 VW T4 is the most recent.

 

I am, of course, critical of mix'n'match at exhibitions and I appreciate layouts such as Stoke Summit and Dewsbury Midland which can be displayed as different periods.

 

Does anyone else remember a splendid model of the Wisbech and Upwell which was actually four models that rotated, and each was set in a Season (Autumn, Winter etc) and a time frame so that along with the stock changing so did the road vehicles and all sorts of details. I remember the shop changing from F Jones to Jones and son to J Jones.

 

Ed

[Poor Old Bruce]

Mickleover MRG's DUFFIELD layout is built as it was about 1948 but at our open days/exhibition we run all sorts of trains from 1920s to today. As long the all the train is compatible and we keep the more modern trains on the main lines (the Goods Lines were taken out by 1968) we are quite happy to do this. What we do not allow are things like red Crabs on BR steel Mineral Wagons or blue diesels with blood and custard coaches to give two examples. We also limit oyrselves to the sort of traffic which actually ran through Duffield so no West Coast pacifics (possibly the odd A3 or V2 though). The main reason is that the layout can accomodate over 30 trains and they are all provided by Group members so it does add some variety for the viewer - nobody has voiced any complaints so far (not to us anyway) so it can't be all bad. This follows a similar practice exercised on the Midland Railway exhibition layout in Derby's Silk Mill Museum which originated at it's former site in the Wardwick Museum.

 

I think for a small exhibition layout one would have to keep within a tighter time frame to aviod some of the sillynesses described above.

 

At home, of course, it's your layout and you can run what you are happy with yourself.

[definate maybe]

Until a few months ago I planned my layouts with a stock list based on 1 particular year. As my plans are for modern era layouts (1990's - modern day) I have done this planning mainly through the platform 5 stock books. If the period of interest was 1990 then I would only plan on modelling the stock listed in the 1990 & 1991 books for the given area. The original idea behind this, other than realism was to keep the price down. The downside, however, was I kept jumping periods and the layout never came into being due to my constant plan changes. My latest idea is for a period of 5 years for roughly 2003-7 meaning I can plan on using EWS 37's in a few various liveries whilst also including the DRS compass livery. My previous plan would of meant choosing between 1 or the other which for me was never satisfactory.

[sulzer27jd]

Thanks all for the comments so far, I am finding them very useful and interesting. Its funny but I suppose one of the advantages of a prototype location is that it can't be changed and in its setting woll possibly only make sense in specific time periods. I'm thinking about things like CL signalling or over head wires going up, or a major restructure that ties in a period. The freelance location can be moved around.

 

I was planning some changes to my layout anyway, a change of use in the attic giving me another 4 feet or so in length. So perhaps some of these could reflect a more flexible timescale. I don't like mixing periods and do seperate them at present, so that the early 80's won't get used along side mid to later. For example the early class 25 or Deltic won't run along side the Scotrail liveried 47's. I guess I set them about 1986 or 1981 and so moving farther away from my current 10 year frame (1979 to 1989) is a bit like coming out of a comfort zone.

 

I feel more comfortable that it is achievable.

 

looking forward to further thoughts.

 

J

[R.Langley]

Once I finally finish my end to end layout, I plan to run one main era (1990s to present), and another (steam/early diesels). Just so I can spice up the sometimes mundane Turbos pottering in and out of the station, with a 3 coach local hauled by a Manor, or a 4MT, stock being piloted out of the station, engine released, and stock shunted back in again.

 

Frankly I can't wait 'till I get that opportunity!

 

Richard

[Dave777]

I've often thought it would be possible to do 1965-ish to 1975-ish reasonably easily. Mid-60s cars wouldn't look totally out of place in the mid-70s, and railway infrastructure such as wooden sleepers and semaphone signals would stay pretty much the same. The interesting bit about this period is that it covers end of steam, green diesels, and onto blue diesels too, which is a pretty wide cross section of different rolling stock.

 

But, personally I feel that, short of having 'swap outs' where you exchange the road vehicles for each time period, the layout would need to be fairly generic so as not to tie down the time period too much, and that might lead to blandness and a lack of character + atmosphere (that elusive layout feature that so many of us try and capture). I'd rather have the excuse of 'needing' to build seperate layouts for each time period... B)

[DonB]

All of this got me thinking. Do others run their layout using more than one time period? Or what about more than one location?

 

 

Have you seen Mikkel's blogs? From pre grouping to pre-war (IIRC) all on a micro layout!

[coachmann]

Strict accuracy can be hard going for anyone. David Jenkinson's chosen era used to be post 1933 and I gave most of his coaches post 1933 numbers. Then he back-dated two years and the coaches had to be renumbered! Everything else fell into his 'funny hour' slot.

 

Even in BR days it isn't easy to chose a widespan of years that is truly accurate. 1950 to 1953 could work. It is often said the longest run of stability was the Corporate blue era, but it too had its hickups such as the withdrawal of many diesel classes, 1972 Tops renumbering and the late 1970s refurbished reversed livery DMU's.

 

My workaround is plausibility and a spot of history bending....But a 'funny hour' has its attractions....

[mwrosebury2000]

I was going to build a layout using a tunnel as a break, one side would have been steam (didn't decide on the date) and the other modern. Both sides would be the same location but modern side having less track, disused lines etc to highlight the distruction of the railways but time, money and the thought it might not work has kept it just a dream...

 

I now have a modern layout with "special steam days" this alows me to put a couple of old vehicles on, a few people dressed up and run what I want.

 

Mark

[TomJ]

A very good example of multi-eras is on here - Wheal Elizabeth by Ullypug. This superb freight only Cornish china clay branch covers steam in the 60s through to the start of the air-braked era in the mid 80s - although obviously only running appropriate trains at a time - and it seems to work very well to me. In some of the quieter parts of the network much of the steam era infrastructure remained until the 80s or even late - such as semaphore signals, manual crossing gates, wooden sleepers etc. It would seem easier to get away with a 'back of beyond' branch that a mainline. However as has been pointed out this is much harder with anywhere passengers went near - as in many cases the station fittings and fixtures changed along with cars and even the fashions of the passengers.

I have for a while considered having two eras to my layout Trevone Junction - WR steam and early 80s BR blue, again this is a quiet remote Cornish branch. My plan for this was to have two different platforms that would 'drop in'. However even this will involve compromise so I'm not sure whether I'll continue or fix on one era.

 

Obviously when its your train set you can run whatever you want, and I regularly do. I guess for most locations some compromise is needed and ultimately it comes down to personal choice as to whether you are happy with this

[beast66606]

I'm thinking about things like CL signalling

 

Colour lights have been around for 100 years, I believe the ECML had them from the 1930s (North of York, Thirsk area iirc) so if you make the colour lights an earlier style you can get away with those to.

[TomJ]

As Mickey says, I've also discovered that many prototypes that seem to be ideal for a multi-era layout actually don't work so well when you start to look at the detail. One possible solution I've considered - and I think I've seen it done is to have an oval continous run with two stations on either side - rather than a staion and a fiddle yard. That way each station can be made perfect for a particular era and the other one used as a fiddle yard. This would probably work for end to end layouts - although you may have to lengthen it a bit to turn a fiddle yard into a station.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Colour lights have been around for 100 years, I believe the ECML had them from the 1930s (North of York, Thirsk area iirc) so if you make the colour lights an earlier style you can get away with those to.

 

The first overground use of colour lights in Britain was the Liverpool Overhead in 1920, followed 3 years later by the Marylebone - Neasden section of the LNER. The Institution of Railway Signal Engineers recommended the introduction of a 4th aspect in 1924.

Working from switches on panels instead of Lever Frames was introduced at Goole and Thirsk in 1933. The OCS route setting panel dates from about 1936.

The first NX panel was at Brunswick (CLC) in 1939.

The first Position Light Junction Indicators were introduced about 1936