Peco Double Slip Advice

[beast66606]

Still a waste of money as far as I can see. But don't let the fact that most folk seem to manage to wire up their layouts without them deter anyone from spending money on gadgets and gizmos. Afterall manual operation could be the answer for some.

 

A bit unfair Kenton - if they choose to spend their money on something which saves them time and/or hassle then that's their choice. With the juicer wired in, manual control of the points is a simple possibility.

[250BOB]

Still a waste of money as far as I can see. But don't let the fact that most folk seem to manage to wire up their layouts without them deter anyone from spending money on gadgets and gizmos. Afterall manual operation could be the answer for some.

 

Thats pretty well much what the Luddites said in the 19th century, when they protested about the introduction of technology.

[Kenton]

A bit unfair Kenton - if they choose to spend their money on something which saves them time and/or hassle then that's their choice. With the juicer wired in, manual control of the points is a simple possibility.

 

Not quite sure about unfairness - I did indicate it was an enduser choice to spend (IMO waste) money on one.

I am not saying that they are not one solution, albeit expensive, I am just trying to balance the over-sell that it is the best - or even only - solution.

 

Manual control is an even simpler possibility without the juicer wired up. How did we ever manage without it?

[Blacque Jacque]

My Dad's layout has a frog juicer earning it's keep where out & back services depart "wrong line" from a through station & run through a crossover to get back on the correct line. As each piece of electrified stock passes over the crossover, each of the frogs changes polarity repeatedly. This would of course work with any DCC autoreverse, but the juicer offers value for money providing 6 outputs for ~£50.

 

This situation comes about because we have stuck rigidly to the right rail is red for consistency of wiring.

[250BOB]

My Dad's layout has a frog juicer earning it's keep where out & back services depart "wrong line" from a through station & run through a crossover to get back on the correct line. As each piece of electrified stock passes over the crossover, each of the frogs changes polarity repeatedly. This would of course work with any DCC autoreverse, but the juicer offers value for money providing 6 outputs for ~£50.

 

This situation comes about because we have stuck rigidly to the right rail is red for consistency of wiring.

 

And as I have found with my Hex(6) Frog Juicer.......you are not limited to 6 frogs.........you can wire in more frogs if you wish....but just be aware of any conflicts that may occur with the train movements......even better value then.!!!

Bob

[beast66606]

Manual control is an even simpler possibility without the juicer wired up. How did we ever manage without it?

 

I didn't - I've never relied on point blades to switch frogs, and hence there is a requirement for an external switch.

[Mike Friedman]

Hello Bluebird, if you are intending using Peco code 100 track, then the double slip only comes in the insulfrog variety, and with this no wiring is required, you can attach metal rail joiners on all rails and all works fine (I have four on my layout and have no problems).

 

The Peco code 100 double slip (SL-90) has quite small non-conductive areas at the frogs and if wheels and track are clean do not pose much of a problem.

 

If you are going for Code 75 you have a choice of insulfrog (SL-190) or electrofrog (SL-E190), insulfrog will need no extra wiring, the electrofrog will require the frogs insulating with insulated rail joiners and the polarity switching with changing routes. Electrofrog will always give better electrical continuity with smaller non conductive areas than insulfrog, in the case of Peco OO trackwork insulfrog has two sections of 5mm plastic rail that are non conductive compared to electrofrog.

 

If you choose electrofrog how you power the points and change the polarity is up to you; as they say: “You pays your money and makes your choice.”

 

Whatever method you choose it is always best to understand why you are wiring how you are, and I am sure that once you have understood the principles you will find the wiring not too difficult however you choose to solve the problem.

[Kenton]

I didn't - I've never relied on point blades to switch frogs, and hence there is a requirement for an external switch.

 

Don't think I have ever suggested you could get away without a switch - only that it is easier and cheaper to wire up a switch. Whether you choose to move the tiebar manually with a finger or, remotely with a wire-in-tube or rodding, or remotely through a point motor all these cheaper options are available. As said it is a personal choice and as wiring comes naturally to me I just cannot justify in my mind the spend on this gadget. I also would never rely on point blades to give contact and would shy away from code 100 and anything "insulfrog".

[250BOB]

Don't think I have ever suggested you could get away without a switch - only that it is easier and cheaper to wire up a switch. Whether you choose to move the tiebar manually with a finger or, remotely with a wire-in-tube or rodding, or remotely through a point motor all these cheaper options are available. As said it is a personal choice and as wiring comes naturally to me I just cannot justify in my mind the spend on this gadget. I also would never rely on point blades to give contact and would shy away from code 100 and anything "insulfrog".

 

It may well be cheaper to wire up the polarity switches for a double slip.....BUT, do you really think its easier than a Frog Juicer.

As I said earlier......having seen the switches and wires required......I think the juicer is simpler....a lot simpler.?????

[melmerby]

 

insulfrog will need no extra wiring, the electrofrog will require the frogs insulating

 

Not strictly correct.

If you do not insulate the frogs you always have the possiblity of the wheels bridging from one rail to the other as it crosses the frog. (the two rails are opposite polarity)

Treating both types the same will avoid this. This is why I would consider that Insulfrogs with continuously fed rails (as with DCC) are pretty pointless (sorry about the pun!)

 

Keith

[Blacque Jacque]

It depends which you see as more valuable to you, time or money ?

Spending money will save you time, the material goods purchased can probably be resold later on, recovering some of their monetary value.

Time however, once spent, cannot be reclaimed.

 

An interesting discussion, but I think we've drifted somewhat from the OP's question.

[Kenton]

Time however, once spent, cannot be reclaimed.

 

True, but this is a hobby and some get pleasure forom some parts of the hobby while others get their kicks elsewhere. I enjoy spending money as much as anyone, but I also get far more value out of using my time to wire a layout than for example splashing paint on a wagon. I also consider myself pretty competent at wiring a layout so it hold no fear whereas painting to me is a chore I'm am not good at.

 

Others have other horrors that take the edge off their enjoyment - I understand that might be layout wiring. But come on it is certainly not the be all and end all solution to the problem. Just one of many, that is more expensive in monetary terms and AFAIC more expensive in enjoyment and consumption of time.

[Pufferman]

Looking at the slips now they are easy.

Only thing that looks hard are putting the commen on the running side of the rail, any tips?

[250BOB]

Looking at the slips now they are easy.

Only thing that looks hard are putting the commen on the running side of the rail, any tips?

 

Sorry Pufferman.......exactly what do you mean......??

[Butler Henderson]

Whilst the electrofrog one is only available in code 75 is there any problems using it with code 100 with the PL-112 75 to 100 joiners or the PL-113 75 to 100 rail sections?

[Gwiwer]

I can't see any technical problems but you might find the differing rail heights can be discerned and might be an annoyance. Those joiners also don't come in insulated so you will have to wire accordingly. There remains the issue of wheels; almost all current rolling stock will happily run through code 75 point work but not all older nor "cheap" stuff such as Hornby Railroad items with chunky wheels can be relied upon to do so. I even have issues with early Bachmann (Mainline-style wheels) locos taking my Code 100 points without bouncing.

[blueeighties]

I have two leccy frog double slips, I found the 'working out which way they are set' headache sorted when I wired led's into the control panel, to indicate what route is set. One issue I have just discovered, is that when running a short wheelbase loco over them (Hornby 08) I was getting a dead section. After much fiddling and prodding, the problem is with the Seep motors I have installed. They are set up correctly, but for some reason the switches are not proving reliable. Strangley only on these slips, my whole layout is powered with them, and everything else works fine. I may replace these particular ones with Tortoises and be done with it.

[Butler Henderson]

Thanks for the replies, I think the joiners are capable of being insulated as the PL112 has a fiddly metal strip insert to make it non-insulated and the PL-113 has a wire link between the rail sections that can be cut. Think I might be able to get anway with dead frog one having given it more thought over what is going to pass over it. As for knowing which way its set I am thinking of having a couple of yard lights which whether lit or not would indicate which way the slip is set.

Edited December 1, 2012 by Butler Henderson

[RFS]

I have two leccy frog double slips, I found the 'working out which way they are set' headache sorted when I wired led's into the control panel, to indicate what route is set. One issue I have just discovered, is that when running a short wheelbase loco over them (Hornby 08) I was getting a dead section. After much fiddling and prodding, the problem is with the Seep motors I have installed. They are set up correctly, but for some reason the switches are not proving reliable. Strangley only on these slips, my whole layout is powered with them, and everything else works fine. I may replace these particular ones with Tortoises and be done with it.

 

The issue with the slips is that the blades do not move as far back-and-forth on them compared with standard points. This then causes a problem with the Seep because it has to be aligned very precisely to get the switch to make proper contact in each direction. I did have a problem with them and sometimes the switch was only halfway across which caused a DCC short as it was touching both contacts. I have since switched to Tortoises which work absolutely fine.

[blueeighties]

Now I would never have thought of that, but when you point it out, it's so obvious! Thank you. I guess I now need to find the funds for four Tortoise motors!

Edited December 1, 2012 by blueeighties

[250BOB]

Now I would never have thought of that, but when you point it out, it's so obvious! Thank you. I guess I now need to find the funds for four Tortoise motors!

 

Or you could stay with your Seeps, but use a frog juicer to change the polarity.?

[blueeighties]

Or.... I could reverse the roles of the Seep switches currently used to switch polarity to the micro switches I use for the panel led's, the micro s I think would offer more reliable operation?

[Gwiwer]

Peco PL10 motors power my double-slip perfectly - no issues at all.

[Pufferman]

So I am guessing that my 08s wont run over my double slips becasue they are insulfrog not electro?

[Gwiwer]

I run 08s and other small locos inclusing 0-4-0 tanks across my insulfrog double slip with no problems at all.