Dan Griffin Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 whats with the massive decrease in the Hornby thomas range? spencer (A4) oliver, diesels, henry all going? is the range being phased out to allow the Bachmann product to be sold in the uk? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 whats with the massive decrease in the Hornby thomas range? spencer (A4) oliver, diesels, henry all going? is the range being phased out to allow the Bachmann product to be sold in the uk? Not even slightly. There's definitely some movement to remove the "bad sellers" but the usual suspects (1-8) are all down to limited batch production a year. If the above had been the case, I sincerely doubt Murdoch or Dart would have been tooled up. Fact is in Britain, Hornby IS model railways. Over in the USA, it's not by any margin. HiT are a canny company, and giving the individual licenses for Europe and the USA respectively to Hornby and Bachmann is good business sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Scottish Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 In the halcion days of only some three years ago, it did look like DCC and sound would become an integral part of the hobby in anticipation of prices coming down. I wonder if the recession has had the effect of putting DCC/sound back several years. Maybe it is dying a natural death anyway now the initial wow factor has worn off and people realize the twee sound in 4mm is nerve jarring to many observers. Whatever, the high cost of RTR sound locos is not furthering the cause in my view. Maybe I am wrong and money is swimming out there??? I was thinking of going DCC because I fancied a sound Black 5 etc. However these prices really make it an easy decision. I can't justify spending £250 on something I might use 3 or 4 times a year. It may be that the relative cost is putting people off at the Toyset end of the market ,so far ,but maybe now extending to the modelling market. I note that Hornby have only extended their DCC sets by one this year and that all others are still in the catalogue suggesting they haven't really moved. Also the Pendolino which was digital is now supplied analogue. On the other side I do note that at exhibitions DCC is now used in much more layouts. Again I think it is the extra sound dimension that has pushed this. Most seem to have a burbling class 20 on them. But at these prices I wonder if this growth will continue Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I have my thoughts on the cost of sound and whilst the exchange rate of the pound to the Euro is not helping I can't help but wonder if having a sole supplier of the ESU decoder in this country is a monopoly is driving the price up. ie no competition. It is know Bachmann have there sounds provided by SWD but do they also supply the decoders. Are Hornby's decoders supplied the same way ? havn't been able to find out as yet. Also aware of one shop was sourcing their's from the States but then again they are charging about the same price (no it's not Howes). Does it come down to ESU (german company) knowing that we will pay more for the decoders and therfore charging us more than the rest of the world? I would of thought that by know not as many would be buying sound and that no's sold would be slowing down. therfore to keep sales up the price may drop to encourage more to go out and buy. Could it be just plain greed on the back of the possibilities that the Brits will pay over the top for something when the rest of the world won't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Depot Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Are we getting to a point with some of these prices, where the small model shops at least, will struggle to buy many of these models in if only for the amount of cash they tie up sitting on their shevles awaiting a sale or two? With money being tighter I am not sure I would want to own a model shop at present..... cheers Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I have my thoughts on the cost of sound and whilst the exchange rate of the pound to the Euro is not helping I can't help but wonder if having a sole supplier of the ESU decoder in this country is a monopoly is driving the price up. ie no competition. It is know Bachmann have there sounds provided by SWD but do they also supply the decoders. Are Hornby's decoders supplied the same way ? havn't been able to find out as yet. Also aware of one shop was sourcing their's from the States but then again they are charging about the same price (no it's not Howes). Does it come down to ESU (german company) knowing that we will pay more for the decoders and therfore charging us more than the rest of the world? I would of thought that by know not as many would be buying sound and that no's sold would be slowing down. therfore to keep sales up the price may drop to encourage more to go out and buy. Could it be just plain greed on the back of the possibilities that the Brits will pay over the top for something when the rest of the world won't. I can't afford a Porsche (German company) at the moment, won't get too worried about that (even though it has a nice sound)... With the GBP currently in a weak position against any of the principal currencies, then expect prices of everything to go up - add a dollop of inflation, could hit beyond 5% p.a. during the course of the year and the GBP deficit will get reduced more quickly than anticipated - of course the value of what the pound buys will take a hit, with less than inflation level salary adjustments, interest levels that don't favour the saver, the cost of essential items taking a surge... I would have thought that Hornby and Bachmann know how to price their products - to imply that a supplier ( tier 1 ?) is driving significant price hikes is a strange theory... sounds like the supplier might have problems in certain markets in the near future. Overall I don't understand the interest in DCC sound at this point in time - especially when it comes to around ~50% of the price on some locos... dilbert Edited for two typos Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Dilbert the comment was aimed at the DCC sound loco's. Small retailers have my sympathy with the current prices of loco's especially after this years RRP with Hornby, is exess of £100 for an old body on a new chassis a good deal ( 4F & 2P ) locos in question. Now Bachmann are releasing the 3F this year (we hope) a new body on what is really the 3F (Jinty) chassis and at current prices will be lower. Just a thought wonder what the Hornby price would be for new bodies on a new chassis as well for the 4F and 2P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I would have thought that Hornby and Bachmann know how to price their products - to imply that a supplier ( tier 1 ?) is driving significant price hikes is a strange theory... sounds like the supplier might have problems in certain markets in the near future. Specifically, in my opinion, Hornby shifting any of the Thomas & Friends range, when the Bachmann models are a ) cheaper, b ) have moving eyes and, c ) available widely on the internet at more reasonable prices than the frankly ludicrous £110 for a barely warmed over old Flying Scotsman tooling with a blue paint job and a face on the front. Hell, I challenge you could buy a 9F, paint it orange, line it out and stick a face on the front for less than the difference between the Railroad 9F and the official Hornby model... ...bit like this one we saw modelled on the Sodor Island Forums last year: "ShinyStanley's" Murdoch, and a superb bit of work it is too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Specifically, in my opinion, Hornby shifting any of the Thomas & Friends range, when the Bachmann models are a ) cheaper, b ) have moving eyes and, c ) available widely on the internet at more reasonable prices than the frankly ludicrous £110 for a barely warmed over old Flying Scotsman tooling with a blue paint job and a face on the front. I agree with you but unless something has recently changed, then Hornby in the UK is still the sole licencee of TTTE stuff in the OO/HO range - any Bachmann items you would need to know where to import from (probably the USA) - so I expect that Hornby knows how to price to local market - if they don't, well ... Johnd, My reply was also aimed at DCC sound locos... where I would disagree with you is the suspicion that there is a single supplier driviing the pricing upwards (and this is never downwards). In the context of ever-increasing essential goods, then you need to balance overall where whatever spare £s go - each unto his own, but DCC Sound in modelling terms is at the bottom of the heap for me... dilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted January 28, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 28, 2011 Ironically there is a letter in this months Model Rail about someone buying the Hornby TTTE range and converting them back to the base models as a cheaper option. I suppose it might work if they are buying second hand , but then why not buy the model you want second hand and save yourself the hassle. Model Rail illustrate this with 9F Murdoch. Surely someone in the magazine could have answered that it was better to buy the Railroad 9F rather than Murdoch and convert it back to a BR 9F! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philden Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I wonder if the take up of sound in the UK is affected by small layout size? The advantages of DCC are simpler wiring and the ability to easily run several locos. But do you want several locos making sounds all at once if your layout is in a small room? I think that DCC sound is probably most effective when a layout is large enough for trains to move in an out of earshot, but how many people can do this at home? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Frankly, I think DCC sound is grossly overrated and has pretty much shot its bolt. I really don't think the additional £100 per loco is justified in this day and age, particularly with the steam models. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Belgian Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I couldn't give a toss for sound, but I'd be happy to pay for decent smoke . . . JE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I've got a couple of Heljan first run Claytons that would be right up your street then mate! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I couldn't give a toss for sound, but I'd be happy to pay for decent smoke . . You're never alone with a Strand.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan452 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Coming back to prices (having of course read the editorial in this months 'Model Rail'). However a particular inconsistency for you to ponder over-: NEW DCC READY R3077 Freightliner Class 90 Price £ 77.25 NEW DCC READY R3053 First/EWS Bo-Bo Electric Class 90 Price £ 58.49 I would be interested to hear any comments as to why there is a price difference on the two different versions of the same locomotive. (I do not believe it to be a mistake as Hattons have a similar difference.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 2, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 2, 2011 Talking to the local retailer today about prices, following a discussion between him and someone else about a massive price rise on something else made in China, he told me that a rep he was talking to at the Hornby trade day last month had said that the differential between Chinese and UK production costs is now only about 10%. And the price rises are not just in model railways but all sorts of other things in the model world are seeing very large increases in their 2011 list prices while new models are going up with a bang (the conversations started about a large scale, highly detailed, diecast car which at £220 is about double what it could have been expected to be a year or so back). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 The cost advanatage of off-shoring has been lost in many areas. Wonder if Hornby will soon have made in Gt Britain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted February 2, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 2, 2011 The cost advanatage of offshoring has beenlost in many areas. Wonder if Hornby will soon have made in Gt Britain More likely India. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 2, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 2, 2011 More likely India. Or several other potential countries in the Far East. However on the tv the other evening there was a piece about manufacturing companies relocating production to Britain from the Far East and Eastern Europe - but they are encountering problems recruiting staff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 OT, but the Canon copier I bought last week said "made in Vietnam" on the box, that's the first time I've seen that. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Or several other potential countries in the Far East. However on the tv the other evening there was a piece about manufacturing companies relocating production to Britain from the Far East and Eastern Europe - but they are encountering problems recruiting staff If Hornby put out a recruitment drive for people in Britain, I'd be there in a flash... ...just not sure they would need or want an English graduate, mind Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted February 2, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 2, 2011 OT, but the Canon copier I bought last week said "made in Vietnam" on the box, that's the first time I've seen that. Ed Yes, a previous employer of mine were shifting work out of India into Vietnam a couple of years back, I'm pretty sure ten years ago or more I bought a Pentax lens that was made in Vietnam. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 If Hornby put out a recruitment drive for people in Britain, I'd be there in a flash... ...just not sure they would need or want an English graduate, mind They once had a part time racing driver with a Law degree. He later went on to get an anonymous job, wearing a white helmet and racing suit..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 They once had a part time racing driver with a Law degree. He later went on to get an anonymous job, wearing a white helmet and racing suit..... He who should not be seated near the cast of Coronation Street, as he's decided all Northerners are edible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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