Hornby 2011 Announcements

[Ozexpatriate]

The snow prevented me buying a Scalextric set for Christmas, but I picked it up in January. ... perhaps I wasn't unusual in that?

There are several people who agree with you and did so towards the bottom of this page, all making the quote below from the Telegraph seem a bit glib in tone, even though it is factually accurate.

 

Update from today's Telegraph re Hornby:

 

Questor share tip: Don't board Hornby just now

 

The company said it would miss full-year expectations because of a slowdown in sales before Christmas. As with other retailers, Hornby has blamed the snow.

[Barry Ten]

One thing that occurs (and I've searched to see if it came up already, but I ain't wading through 43 pages just to be sure!) is that the loco drive County will in turn offer a pretty easy route to the rather delightful County Tank - either for Hornby, the loco basher, or as a body-only type kit.

[coachmann]

Thanks for the update folks.....I hadn't realized the Railroad Black Five was old tooling for body and chassis.

[edcayton]

The bit from the Questor share tip amuses me. If he is so clever why does he have to write tips for other people when he could be making it hand over fist?

Of course, he'd be a "financial advisor" like the ones who advised me to leave the Teacher's Pension Schene and go with Equitable Life, or to take out an endowment mortgage that would not only pay off the mortgage but provide a nice nest egg as well, or to invest in stocks and shares ISA's.

Cynical, moi?

 

Ed

[charliepetty]

We are not too far away now from being able to compare Hornby and Bachmann pricing for 2011 releases.

 

All business politics aside I shall wait with interest to see what Barwell feels is the bench-mark for the year ahead. While the product range is largely different I have been unable to consider numerous items on the list as Hornby seem to be a little greedy. The Gresley buffet is a case in point. The Brighton Belle both as a 2-car pack and with trailers may have required significant R&D costs but is also in an entirely different price band to what we have seen before.

 

Then there is the eternal matter of quality and accuracy. I daresay the great majority of Hornby customers might be "average Joes" who only care about buying Timmy a big shiny engine with a name on but there is a very significant modelling fraternity who may baulk at massive price rises when the quality is lacking and the model isn't as accurate as it perhaps could be. The comments about the VEP above may be very pertinent in that respect. The basic Hornby Mk1 coach simply doesn't stand comparison with the Bachmann product which is priced only slightly higher.

 

Mr. Kohler is reported above to have "taken note". Let us hope he continues to take note and within the needs of operating a profitable business manages to pitch his products at the right market and at the right price.

 

Hornby seem to have a slight disdvantage currently against Bachmann, Hornby is UK Based, buying from a Chinese company, so the Chinese company make say 30% minimum before costs, then Hornby make say 30% minimum before costs, then selling to retailers who should normally be able to make 15-20% before costs, but in reality retailers are nearer to 10-15% dut to severe Internet competition. THUS the Hornby list prices are more. But Kader (Bachmann) own the Hornby Factory thus the profit goes back to them before we start. Bachmann (Kader)are buying from themselves so the internal profit levels shouldnt be as great and Bachmann visit the Largest English shows with there impressive stand selling direct to me & you. Hornby upto recently have never done this, times are a changing though and when visiting the 'Hornby Exhibition' at Margate they have a shop! Good for them I say.

 

The Railroad Range is a brilliant way of fighting back, good quality at fair prices. Also Hornby have had their current price increases announced, I am sure with costs in China going up by 10-15% then no doubt ALL prices of Chinese products will go up too, including Bachmann & Dapol. You may have noticed Heljan's increases are well up too.

 

Lets wait and see, I might be wrong!

[Ozexpatriate]

Hornby seem to have a slight disdvantage currently against Bachmann, Hornby is UK Based, buying from a Chinese company, ... Bachmann (Kader)are buying from themselves so the internal profit levels shouldnt be as great

This is true, but despite the hypothetical competitive advantages Bachmann Branch-Line has with vertically integrated manufacturing at a Kader facility, the rest of their costs (including the actual manufacturing costs) are on a level playing field with Hornby.

 

Both maintain offices in the UK. Products have to be shipped from China, then warehoused and distributed to retailers. Both companies have researchers/designers, pursue marketing strategies at tradeshows, publish catalogues and club magazines and have a salesforce that sells to the retailers. We have no visibility into whether one company or the other is more efficient at all of this, but cost structures are bound to be similar.

 

At the end of the day, the per unit profit taken by Kader Holdings/Sanda Kan on each Hornby product they manufacture is probably a small fraction of the total price on a retailer's shelf.

[S.A.C Martin]

Thanks for the update folks.....I hadn't realized the Railroad Black Five was old tooling for body and chassis.

 

It's sort of a mish-mash between old and new, coach:

 

Black Five Comparisons

 

The railroad model is the older body tooling, on a whole new chassis, based on the dimensions of the old tender drive model, and re-using the tender drive, albeit unpowered.

[Guest dilbert]

Bachmann (Kader)are buying from themselves so the internal profit levels shouldnt be as great ....

 

That's a huge assumption .. Kader's interest is in treating both Bachmann and Hornby as equal customers and manufacturing costs will be a combination of various things that include complexity, volume breaks etc...

 

Kader is a manufacturing company, Bachmann and Hornby (at least in the UK) are product marketing companies... what is the logic behind Kader having to (apparently?) molly-coddle Bachmann Branch-Line ? This doesn't make sense whatsoever - like having a thirty-something child at home, and who is capable of being independent and yet doesn't manifest this attitude ...dilbert

[Electrostar]

After hearing the sad news today about Wrexham & Shropshire closing I couldn't help but think back to the speculation earlier in the thread about Hornby and the Class 67. From what I've read the news about W&S wasn't unexpected and I wonder if Hornby had decided to wait to see DB's next move before deciding on a re-tooled 67 on account of the limited number of liveries it's carried, and its pairing with the W&S DVT?

[Legend]

Anyone else notice the Railroad Class 40 on page 140 of the new catalogue is a different version. Seems to be a namer 40012 with original style nose, whereas the version for sale is 40152 with headcode boxes. I wonder if this was a possible model not proceded with but included in catalogue by mistake.

 

Still can't fathom out why they've got a Warship in there.

[Pennine MC]

... I wonder if this was a possible model not proceded with but included in catalogue by mistake.

 

Still can't fathom out why they've got a Warship in there.

 

Yeah, when it turns up it'll probably be a Western

[Ron Ron Ron]

......From what I've read the news about W&S wasn't unexpected and I wonder if Hornby had decided to wait to see DB's next move before deciding on a re-tooled 67 ..........

See post 1005 on page 41 of this thread.

 

Dear Mr. Jackson,

Thank you for your email and apologises for the time taken to respond to you.

The Class 67's you mention would be the same tooling as last year, however, the models would have a 5 pole skew motor and NEM couplings.

Kind regards,

Customer Care

 

 

It appears that Hornby are saying there is no re-tooled 67. It was going to be a "tweeked", uprated, or modified version of the same Limby 67 that has been available in recent years. With a price hike to match.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kiltedsignaller]

Just browsing through the new catalogue (twixt trains). I've spotted most of the errors which have already been pointed out on this thread. But another glaring one has suddenly caught my eye in the Pullmans pages: 'Minerva' was NEVER a kitchen car! Oh dearie me.

[The Stationmaster]

Yeah, when it turns up it'll probably be a Western

 

 

 

And not just 'any' 'Western' …… but 'the most accurate yet' (can't have too much of a good thing) But if it wasn't would they choose the old Hornby one or the Lima one (if you wish to answer this question please start a new thread and don't forget the poll - sorry Mods)

[G-BOAF]

See post 1005 on page 41 of this thread.

 

 

 

It appears that Hornby are saying there is no re-tooled 67. It was going to be a "tweeked", uprated, or modified version of the same Limby 67 that has been available in recent years. With a price hike to match.

I can't believe that a 'tweaked' mode could command effectively a 100% increase in price (bringing them up to a level with the 60's and 56's). The hattons site did mention something about etched nameplates. Also, I thought when Hornby released the Lima 67 they fitted NEM, or at least slimline, couplings? Were it a tweaked model, the quality would not match the price.

 

Still, time will tell.

(and I believe the Mods have requested somewhere that the subject of a new 67 is no longer discussed)

[Mod2]

 

(and I believe the Mods have requested somewhere that the subject of a new 67 is no longer discussed)

 

Hi

 

There isn't a 'ban' as such on discussing the model, just a preference against speculating, wishlisting and repeating the same views (which probably amounts to the same thing until we have definite information). Until then, there seems little point in going over old ground.

 

Cheers.

[Butler Henderson]

There are some changes already to the 2011 range (source a posting on Hornbys own forum which has been confirmed by the forums administrator)

 

R3016/X BR 4-6-0 Standard 4MT 75000 now will have an early BR totem

R3026 BR 2-8-0 8F is now 48706 not 48723

R3052 Railfreight Sub-Sector Class 56 is named Richard Trevithick not Merehead as originally indicated

[darren01]

HI All

I was looking at some of the Hornby sound Loco's and saw the school RRP at £286.99 , so you are paying about £170. for DCC and sound!!!!

[Gwiwer]

Only about £15 of which is for the chip.

 

Alternatively you can buy the non-sound unchipped version and fit your own if you have time, patience, skill and tools to do so.

 

While I enjoy good loco sound I am also perhaps grateful that a decision on that has been made for me; the layout is close enough to the neighbour's house that adding sound might become a nuisance for them at times.

[coachmann]

In the halcion days of only some three years ago, it did look like DCC and sound would become an integral part of the hobby in anticipation of prices coming down. I wonder if the recession has had the effect of putting DCC/sound back several years. Maybe it is dying a natural death anyway now the initial wow factor has worn off and people realize the twee sound in 4mm is nerve jarring to many observers. Whatever, the high cost of RTR sound locos is not furthering the cause in my view. Maybe I am wrong and money is swimming out there???

[Oldddudders]

No, Larry, you are quite right - particularly in the UK, where authentic sound is still horrendously expensive, because the basic hardware is still coming from a rather expensive part of Europe. I have yet to fit it, but some time ago I bought from Bromsgrove Models a generic sound chip by Digitrax for about £35, including speaker. It comes with both steam and diesel (US) files already loaded. If I now buy a downloader for £60, I can download any sound-set I fancy from the Digitrax site and load it into the chip. Their UK sounds are currently limited, but if the demand increases there will be more. Thus every future loco I buy can have sound and DCC fitted for a paltry £35. Those figures are very different from the principal UK suppliers' prices, I believe, and reflect the much greater penetration of both DCC and sound in the US market.

 

It is also worth saying that among my many US HO sound-equipped locos, even some of the factory-fitted locos cost me less than £100, despite being brand-new, current stock and made in the same Chinese factories, of course. The poor performance of the £ against the US$ means those days are gone - but a highly detailed, sound-equipped 2-10-2 for less than £100? UK modellers have some time to wait for such value, I fear.

[Barry Ten]

In the halcion days of only some three years ago, it did look like DCC and sound would become an integral part of the hobby in anticipation of prices coming down. I wonder if the recession has had the effect of putting DCC/sound back several years.

 

I noticed that there hasn't been a DCC version of the S&D 7F, whereas there was with the G2 in the first release.

[davidw]

I think Larry has a good point. Hearing sound chipped loco's at exhibition can be irritating.

 

I hope that the price of the schools mentioned above is an error.

[Gwiwer]

Without wishing to divert too far OT I will concur with that opinion. One or two sound-fitted locos can sound superb. Fill a layout, a room or an exhibition hall with them and it turns into a cacophony.

[orcadian]

I hope that the price of the schools mentioned above is an error.

 

Looking at Hornby's own site and products list, it doesn't seem so - it's very much in step with sound-fitted Castle, etc.

Even the sound diesels are showing a similar price hike.

The Bachmann products list shows a similar movement, but some £30 - £50 below Hornby sound.

 

Can I settle for Railroad levels of detail, and generic sound, and follow the route outlined by Oldddudders? - £150 saving per loco does make a difference!

 

As has been suggested, fortunately a few sound-fitted locos on a home layout is probably sufficient to create the right impressions.

 

However, Hornby do not seem to falling over backwards to grow a larger customer base! They certainly are not piling them high and selling cheap! I hope that they don't burn their fingers on these flaming prices!

 

Richard