G-BOAF Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Looking again at the 'high level' Tornado pictures, are we to assume that the top level model will have a better paint job, but not have seperate handrails? I can't see any difference betwen the railroad and non-railroad handrails; the valve gear is clearly different. This could well explain the cheaper price than the Bachmann model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 That's an interesting enough photo for the train of original B4555xx timber wagons behind the Hymek - anybody got any clue as to the traffic / train ?? It's baled pulp from Portishead Docks to St Annes Board Mill- the latter was supplied by the expedient of knocking down the fence next to No 5 siding of Marsh Pond carriage sidings, situated just after the junction of the North Somerset line with the Avoiding Line that passed St Philip's Marsh shed. Looking at the track plan, I would suggest that loaded trains worked via Temple Meads, whilst empties set back past Marsh Junction, then ran via the Avoiding Line, there being no run-round facility. I think the traffic ran from the late 1960s until the beginning of the 1980s. Some of the wagons used were modified by having their ends cut down a bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Looking again at the 'high level' Tornado pictures, are we to assume that the top level model will have a better paint job, but not have seperate handrails? I can't see any difference betwen the railroad and non-railroad handrails; the valve gear is clearly different. This could well explain the cheaper price than the Bachmann model. The Valve gear is 100% identical: The difference is quite literally, the levels of decoration (assuming these pictures are not just computer edits of each other, as I first assumed?) Note the plaque, the copper wiring, the plate on the frames, the red and black lining, and the worksplate are all missing on the Railroad model. Otherwise the model seems to be physically identical. All the more reason for a grey one... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 20, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2011 Looking again at the 'high level' Tornado pictures, are we to assume that the top level model will have a better paint job, but not have seperate handrails? I can't see any difference betwen the railroad and non-railroad handrails; the valve gear is clearly different. This could well explain the cheaper price than the Bachmann model. But to what extent is the catalogue picture an accurate detail reflection of what will come in the box as opposed to it being a computer rendered image knocked up from basic data supplied to a keyboard/mouse operator with a fancy drawing package? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted January 20, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 20, 2011 I also don't understand why the 5-Bel coaches are being sold separate. I know it breaks down the price but is anyone really going to want to have just the power cars? The same could be argued for the HST vehicles. Power cars sold as a pair but all the trailers separately. You can build up a 2+8 or short-form as suits your layout. Same with the Belle. An arguable difference between the Belle and the Vep (which is only being sold as a complete unit) is that Vep coaches have never run singly or in other trains whereas many Belle trailers have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Scottish Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Looking again at the 'high level' Tornado pictures, are we to assume that the top level model will have a better paint job, but not have seperate handrails? I can't see any difference betwen the railroad and non-railroad handrails; the valve gear is clearly different. This could well explain the cheaper price than the Bachmann model. Looking at the catalogue the Railroad version has much more basic lining. The catalogue actually does not do much to promote the model as the lining seems to consist of thick white bands in comparison to the non Railroad more elaborate one . It really does look very basic. Its one of the few reasons for getting the catalogue. Its a nice professionaly prepared publication but its not exactly different. You could easily be looking at 2010,2009 versions. I think it could do with a revamp. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Unless someone went to a lot of trouble to line up the spokes in exactly the same positions, they are the same back images with computer generated liveries..........It's easy for those as knows tha knows......B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted January 20, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 20, 2011 I'm not surprised the basic model looks the same. I can't see Hornby spending extra money producing different sets of tooling for the superior and Railroad versions of the same locomotive. Perhaps they may not use some of the slides to provide extra detailing on the superior version on the Railroad one to reduce costs and avoid fragile bits on a Railroad loco, but I too think the main differnece will be in the paint finish and detailing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 The difference is quite literally, the levels of decoration (assuming these pictures are not just computer edits of each other, as I first assumed?) I think Photoshopping is a reasonable assumption here given the only divergences between the two images are on the application of colour and lining (the valve gear is in exactly the same position on both). The pictures shown so far of the physical model look to have moulded handrails and that's what seems to have formed the basis for the images above. I'd hope we're due to see a version with separate handrails (as well as improved decoration) though suitable use of slides in the tooling otherwise I can't see many of the "super detail" version selling. You'll end up with a better lined out/detailed version whose paint job you'd probably ruin replacing the moulded handrails whereas you could buy the cheaper Railroad version to fix up given you'd need to repaint anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixoh8sixoh Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Just browsing the Hornby catalogue (and I can't recall anyone mentioning it yet on this topic) but I notice on pages 78 and 79 there are photos of 31439 in Regional Railways livery with "North Yorksire Moors Railway" (sic) nameplates. I've been to Yorkshire, but I'm not sure where Yorksire is (though it may be an oblique reference to Prince Philip)... Hope Hornby spot this before the loco goes into production! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted January 20, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 20, 2011 I wouldn't count on it. They're still selling bubblecars going to "Marlowe" and "Southhall" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 20, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2011 I wouldn't count on it. They're still selling bubblecars going to "Marlowe" and "Southhall" Maybe the Chinese know more about the history of English literature than the average British inhabitant? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 47107 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Maybe the Chinese know more about the history of English literature than the average British inhabitant? Suprised we haven't seen a Schools class called 'Harrow' yet ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Or maybe that should be a Shcols class "Harrro" !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 HI All The Hornby Tornado in the railroad range look like the same model as the more pricey one they sell, you coud save your self a few quid by buying the railroad one and just linning it out yourself . Darren Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 you coud save your self a few quid by buying the railroad one and just linning it out yourself . Darren Hmmm. That's the bit I can't do, and I bet it would be more than a few quid to pay someone else to do as good a job as Hornby can. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamouti Ben Yafo Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Or maybe that should be a Shcols class "Harrro" !!! Ai ya! Guiren! * or gweilo, if you prefer Cantonese. BTW, it's the Japanese who can't do /-l-/; the Cantonese can't do /-r-/. Mandarin speakers do both. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisr40 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Hmmm. That's the bit I can't do, and I bet it would be more than a few quid to pay someone else to do as good a job as Hornby can. Ed run it very fast or sit well back and you will never notice the difference Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 HI All The Hornby Tornado in the railroad range look like the same model as the more pricey one they sell, you coud save your self a few quid by buying the railroad one and just linning it out yourself . Darren Its the same photo photoshopped, its been mentioned a few times now.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Scottish Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 As well as the catalogue silhouette image being referred to there is a picture of the Railroad version spread over 2 pages in the new catalogue. So its not just the photoshopped images. It shows that the main difference is the lining. The Railroad model has what looks like thick white bands as lining, harking back to a 1970s Flying scotsman! Also Dibber previously stated the difference was in the decoration . For an extra £12 I think I'd go for the fully lined and etched numberplate version - were I in the market for a Tornado I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Simon Kohlers comments in Mondays MREmag which showed that he had picked up on the disquiet surrounding the pricing of the loco powered 4F and 2P. Basically he states that the pricing was put together taking into account escalating manufacturing costs and that they are estimated far in advance of the model being produced. He further went onto state that they are not averse to making changes in pricing once they have a definitive cost. Note he did also state that there may be other minor changes. So a full new model, as some have expected at that price, is not envisaged. Its good that Simon has picked up on this .I'm not aware of any other Hornby model that has had a price set in Jan then either reduced or increased once it had been manufactured. But if it is up for review then that is good. My suspicion is that he is reacting to comparisons with the Railroad compound pricing and the forthcoming Bachmann 3F @£55 ,which I've already contracted with Hattons for , so even though it was announced last March thats what I'll pay when its released. I'm hoping that the contributions on here and in MREmag have had the effect of being regarded as a friendly shot across the bow! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesthecat Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Flicking through the Hornby catalogue, I notice the spelling mistake on North Yorksire Moors Railway class 31 has been noted already on here but has anyone else spotted the trainspotter complete with glasses and anorak on the page with the VEP in the station (p83 I think). mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Flicking through the Hornby catalogue, I notice the spelling mistake on North Yorksire Moors Railway class 31 has been noted already on here but has anyone else spotted the trainspotter complete with glasses and anorak on the page with the VEP in the station (p83 I think). mark Pedant's Corner: The catalogue is an impressive beast but, as a piece of design, it feels to me like it's moving backwards: in mine (and I'm assuming this is not a one-off fault), the page design hasn't taken the binding gutter into account so that on p.56, for instance, we have the Pete Waterman Collecon, while the next page gives us Steam rain packs. Obviously I could live with that, but it's disappointing that so many of the illustrations are double-page spreads which therefore have a vertical slice taken out of them. What's the point of high design values if you then destroy the integrity of the image? It was desperately in need of more proof-reading, not just for the examples so far mentioned but for things like p.102, where BR maroon Gresley suburbans are apparently right for the period "mid-1930s to Early 1940s", long before Nationalisation had even taken place. Equally strange, on p.49 we are assured the best rolling stock for an early BR black Schools class is not a Maunsell coach but any Hawksworth coach or the new Gresley suburbans. It shows signs of over-fussiness (some graphic designers think the more elements you can shove in, the better) -- all those background half-tint illustrations which add nothing but make it harder to read. P.129 is a good example: so many tram lines and boxes and different coloured lettering (the red becomes hard to read at the top of the page, fighting the background half-tint photograph on which it's laid). If it were me, I'd stop writing "Please note R0000X is DCC fitted" after every single entry. A big box on the digital page up front, explaining the code, would probably be enough, or you could delete the "Please note" on every entry. I'd also settle on one system for explaining which Quarter things are due in -- either the new highlighted box, or (p.66) the text in the title bar. One or the other. But that's just me being picky... On maybe a more relevant point: 3 out of the 7 steam train packs are SR subjects. I love the SR but I think that's a bit imbalanced, and the major discounting currently going on for Southern Suburban packs might suggest Hornby would do well to give another region a turn. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted January 22, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2011 Just picked up my 2011 catalogue today, I reckon that bloke on the platform watching the VEP's is definitley modelled on someone specific!! But as for the VEP, in the words of Nat King Cole, there may be trouble ahead... The NSE VEP is supposed to be a refurbished example, its numbered 3185 (in fact both units in the shot are!!) which is the number series for the unrefurbished ones. The refurbished ones with the smaller luggage compartment were numbered in the 34xx and 35xx series. The livery is correct for a refurbished NSE VEP with the curved upsweeps except the double arrows should not be there, they were only applied to the first version livery with the angled upsweeps which in turn only appeared on the unrefurbished examples. The black edging to the front cab windows is wrong as well, only applied along with the black painted jumper cable recesses in later years along with a black 'cap' across the top. A little paint will sort this out but it would have been nice to have seen this correct out of the box. Positioning and colour shades of the NSE livery look correct, a first for Hornby in twenty five years of trying (and mostly failing miserably) to get it right but there are numerous variations and elephant traps with regards to VEP variations and it looks like Hornby have fallen in!! Is it just me or does those roof mounted horns look a little on the thin and weedy side? Also have some doubts about the font used on the headcode blinds, looks too much like the later versions fitted by Connex and SWT but as I will probably be changing the codes anyway, not too much of an issue for me. Meanwhile, popped out to my local box shifter to buy a couple of medium radius right hand points (picking up said catalogue at the same time) Looked at the new prices for the Hornby ones, edging eighteen notes, then looked at the (in my experience) much better quality Peco ones and they were almost half the price, guess which I went for!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Meanwhile, popped out to my local box shifter to buy a couple of medium radius right hand points (picking up said catalogue at the same time) Looked at the new prices for the Hornby ones, edging eighteen notes, then looked at the (in my experience) much better quality Peco ones and they were almost half the price, guess which I went for!! The Bachmann equivalents of the Hornby Express points can be picked up for a tenner a pop at Hattons and Rails. Though let's face it the Peco medium is pretty much always a better bet... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 An interesting (very short) news article in today's Standard illustrating the financial vulnerability of Hornby: Even model trains and Scalextric racing cars got caught up in the snow and ice before Christmas, forcing Hornby to issue a profits warning today. It said shops sold less than expected as consumers stayed home in the bad weather. Hornby shares dropped 19¼p to 119¼p as analysts scaled back their profit forecasts. Broker Numis cut its forecast for the year ending next month from £6.4 million to £4.8 million, but left its prediction for next year unchanged at £7.8 million on the grounds that the weather impact was a "one-off". That was backed up by Hornby chairman Neil Johnson who said: "The negative impact on the group caused by the unusually adverse weather in December is almost certainly a one-off event. "Nonetheless, due to its diverse product and geographic spread Hornby continues to occupy a position of strength amongst its peers." I think at least one poster in this thread has accused Hornby of "profiteering". It seems unlikely to me but all I can say is that if they are, they're not very good at it. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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