GRANBY JUNCTION - Shunting Siphons for the Up Parcels with a Manor!

[john dew]

Thats tiresome.......I suspect its stretching it a bit to suggest Granby's came from Birkenhead docks

[The Stationmaster]

I have been watching your engine shed update with interest to see how it all works out.

With regard to your turntable the other item you could alter is the control cabin, I have not seen a B.R. turntable with this type of structure they  usually seem to be just a control box with piping to connect to the Loco.

Its difficult to get a clear picture of one but I did cobble one together to replace the Heljan cabin and it looks more authentic.

 

I'm not sure if the Western had any vacuum operated turntables of its own although it no doubt acquired some through Regional boundary changes.  GWR turntables were usually very manual or, inside the Churchward roundhouse sheds, electric.

[7007GreatWestern]

Hello All,

 

The Southern Railway turntable used at Didcot is misleading - generally the GWR eschewed well type turntables and had it own standard over-girder design. Interestingly, when the West Somerset Railway needed a turntable for their Minehead terminus they acquired the short (55') specimen formerly resident at Pwllheli. Eventually they employed the services of a specialist contractor to extend it by 10' so that it can now turn 'Kings' and 28s:-

 

https://www.steelway.co.uk/rail/case-studies/minehead-railway-turntable

 

Of interest is the fact that the original Minehead turntable had been a very non-standard well type unit:-

 

https://railway-photography.smugmug.com/GWRSteam-1/Collett-Locomotives/Collett-5700-0-6-0PT/Collett-0-6-0PT-Built-1929-1931/7700-7724-Built-Kerr-Stuart-Jan-1930-March-1930/i-Qnw8WnB/A

 

In terms of the suitability of a 'well type' turntable for Granby I have good news for you......depending on how rigid you want to be about things. Granby is loosely based on Wrexham whose real GWR depot was Croes Newydd. In the photos I have seen of it it has a single over-girder type turntable that was inside the shed complex:-

 

https://goo.gl/images/7gSvhz

 

Don't be disheartened though - there were several 'well' turntables in the vicinity and it isn't stretching things too far to imagine Granby having one especially since you haven't adopted standardised GWR structures elsewhere.

 

Here's the turntable at Shrewsbury:-

 

https://goo.gl/images/Hud3hY

 

Not too far from Wrexham was Whitchurch where the GWR/WR had running rights. Here's 7801 Anthony Manor being turning on its well turntable in 1959:-

 

https://goo.gl/images/LggAz3

 

Also not a million miles from Wrexham was Welshpool on the former Cambrian network:-

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Welshpool_ex-Midland_3F_0-6-0_geograph-2789886-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg

 

I hope this is of use.

 

Andy.

Edited May 7, 2018 by 7007GreatWestern

[john dew]

What a mine of information you are Andy........thank you so much.

 

Having looked at those photos and the links that Tony provided, I think sticking with the railings will not look too out of place on a layout that is, all to often, rather loosely based on GWR practice 

 

The house would have to be removed of course and the railings suitably painted.......I do wonder what constitutes "suitable". Did the the GWR really paint turntable girders in light and dark stone I wonder or is this just part of the preservation scene. I rather think shades of grey with some rust highlights will be more appropriate.

 

Regards from Vancouver and thank you all for the ticks and helpful comments

 

John    

[The Stationmaster]

What a mine of information you are Andy........thank you so much.

 

Having looked at those photos and the links that Tony provided, I think sticking with the railings will not look too out of place on a layout that is, all to often, rather loosely based on GWR practice 

 

The house would have to be removed of course and the railings suitably painted.......I do wonder what constitutes "suitable". Did the the GWR really paint turntable girders in light and dark stone I wonder or is this just part of the preservation scene. I rather think shades of grey with some rust highlights will be more appropriate.

 

Regards from Vancouver and thank you all for the ticks and helpful comments

 

John    

 

Our local station's turntable - which disappeared in the late 1950s - had the turntable girders painted in what looked like faded chocolate and cream so it might well previously have been painted in light and dark stone (or even chocolate and cream).  The reason was saying 'even chocolate and cream' was that turntables were an M&EE responsibility and therefore painted by different folk from teh gangs who went round painting stations.

[john dew]

Thanks Mike thats very helpful.

 

The buildings, water cranes and yard lights are already painted in light and dark stone......fortunately very faded because the shed area is the one part of the room exposed to the sun......even more now that a neighbour has removed two very large Conifers......so much so that we put blinds up this week.

 

I digress.......The turntable rails or girders will be in light and dark stone.......artificially faded.

 

Best wishes

 

John

[john dew]

Time to lay some track

 

1

 

 

The entire perimeter of the turntable is made up of 48 removeable, interchangeable segments

 

 

 

 

 

There are three different types

 Left:        Connector to an exit track ......its powered from the bridge, hence the IRJs I have fitted on the track end.                                                    

 Centre:  Passive track............................powered but no track connection

  Right:     Blank

Each track connector must have a track connector or passive track segment immediately opposite

In theory you could run 48 tracks off the turntable. In practice it only comes with segments for six If you want more tracks you need to buy more segments.

Fortunately, as you can see, my old  second hand analog Fleischman has compatible segments

From the rear the segments look identical.




In the centre, a surprisingly strong plastic spring which clips into the turntable body

 

 

 

To remove a segment you press on the centre spring and wiggle it out. Its much harder than it looks although easier once the first one is removed
 

 

 

 

In contrast the Heljan perimeter is continuous. The Code 83 exit tracks have the rail ends filed down and are then glued direct to the perimeter

 

In theory the Heljan turntable can accommodate up to 56 exit tracks. Perhaps because of the rigid geometry imposed by the segments, I found it easier to lay more track with the Fleischmann. On the Heljan I had 12 tracks (10 on the sheds side and an entry and exit track opposite) while on the new Fleischmann I have been able to install  16 (14 : 2)

 

 

 

 

Note the cunning land reclamation at the back........the exit angles from the two TTs are different.......I am hoping the additional length will not only allow more locos but also allow me to set back the shed buildings to align with the tracks

 

 

 

 

 
Regular followers will no doubt be disappointed that they can no longer see the rusty wheelbarrow from the window.

We had to temporarily put the silver foil up because a neighbour chopped a couple of conifers down.....the resultant extra sunlight was starting to make my Hornby GWR green locos look even less realistic!

Please dont ask why I didnt have the forethought to install venetian blinds 10 years ago!

 

Now its time to wire up the control unit

Regards from a very sunny Vancouver

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by john dew
21/9/22 Photos

[St Enodoc]

Regular followers will no doubt be disappointed that they can no longer see the rusty wheelbarrow from the window.

 

We had to temporarily put the silver foil up because a neighbour chopped a couple of conifers down.....the resultant extra sunlight was starting to make my Hornby GWR green locos look even less realistic!

 

Please dont ask why I didnt have the forethought to install venetian blinds 10 years ago!

Some plywood nailed over the outside of the frames would do the trick I reckon.

[john dew]

Some plywood nailed over the outside of the frames would do the trick I reckon.

Very droll.....we are more sophisticated than that in British Columbia!

 

Actually its a right pain now.....the place is like a dungeon with literally zero natural light.....we are pursueing alternative solutions

Edited May 13, 2018 by john dew

[81C]

John something more in keeping would be exterior shutters with ajustable slats, I fitted some internal one's for a customer some 

years back they were very neat and tidy and let the light in, I'm  wondering if reflective flim on the glass would also do the job the 

other alternative is one of those bow shaped blinds which are in abudance in Boston USA.

I bet there is a company that deals sun shade solutions in your part of the world as they say the world is your oyster.

[7007GreatWestern]

Hi John,

 

You might want to consider a self-adhesive film for the window. Some of the more 'technical' ones claim to restrict UV (which causes fading) and infra-red (heat and also contributes to fading). If light intensity is more the problem than you can get them tinted, partially transparent or patterned.

 

Andy.

[The Stationmaster]

John something more in keeping would be exterior shutters with ajustable slats, I fitted some internal one's for a customer some 

years back they were very neat and tidy and let the light in, I'm  wondering if reflective flim on the glass would also do the job the 

other alternative is one of those bow shaped blinds which are in abudance in Boston USA.

I bet there is a company that deals sun shade solutions in your part of the world as they say the world is your oyster.

 

We put reflective film on our backdoor window sometime back and it is very effective at controlling sunlight and keeping the temperature down in the utility area (where the back door is situated so i suspect it is also helping to keep down UV as well.  The other big advantage of it was less obvious but has turned out to be an interesting bonus as we can now watch birds eating a few feet from the back door without them being aware of our presence.

 

We have an awning over the sliding doors at the back of the living room, which faces in the same direction as the back door, and overall I think the reflective film is better than the awning at keeping the temperature down in strong sunlight as it's there all the time; it's also massively cheaper so could be a worthwhile experiment without costing too much.

[M.I.B]

Nicework on the TT John.

 

Sorry for the delayed reply - I am on leave in the UK and doing lots of concreting anf un-concreting (using a sledge-hammer and a barrow to remove old stuff!)

 

Weight of the 47XX has been answered in a very techncal manner already by someone above.  I went to my local emporium on saturday and needed two hands to hold the weighti-ness of the boxed 47XX.   It really is a hefty lump.  Mine hasn't arrived from Liverpool yet - the G88W version hasn't been released in the UK.

[john dew]

Thanks for all the ticks and comments ......particularly the non railway advice re tinted windows

 

 

From this

 

1

 

 

 

 

To this............. was remarkably swift and trouble free

2


-
Much better........just have to buy another roll for the last window pane............thanks again for the advice

 

 

3

 

 

Back to the railway........steady, albeit boring, progress.

The 16 exit tracks are now live and running. Many of the droppers were already in place........well at least connected to the DCC bus.The track angles are different though so they were rarely in the right place on the baseboard. This involved drilling new holes and a lot of crouching under the baseboard trying to make sure the right wires were re connected. .........not fun and definitely not recommended for a six foot, unfit OAP.

The 8 tracks leading into the engine sheds still have to each be divided into two blocks and the approach tracks still need some wiring but the worst part is over.

Time to hook up the Turntable.

The TT is supplied with an Analogue or DC controller which, after installing a separate 14v supply,  is essentially Plug and Play 

 

 

 

However I will be operating the TT with RR&Co so a controller that also operates as a DCC decoder is required. I decided to go with Fleischmann's Turn Control unit. There are less expensive options available but after all the fret I had with Heljan I wanted to be totally confident with the interface.

The Heljan controller was mounted, for wiring convenience, on the other side of the duck under. Not a good idea...operationally it proved highly inconvenient. This time I mounted it as close as I could to the TT but on the operating side of the duck under 
 

 

 

 

Ignore the unit with the blue lights.....thats a decoder for two Cobalt SS surface mounted point motors on the new approach tracks.......more on these later......suffice to say they are effective but very fiddly hence having the decoder readily available

As is well known, DCC layouts only require two wires.......the two for Granby can be seen under the canal!


Here is a close up of the Turn Control Unit
 

 

 

Its exceptionally well designed with simple controls. Operating is quite intuitive.

Each track has to be set up individually ...........but it is far easier than with Heljan where you had to line up each track by eye.......here you just turn the red knob till the bridge is in the required  position and select a number.
 
RR&Co is a little more demanding and you have to select the tracks clockwise from the 9 o clock position and number them sequentially

There are 14 tracks on the shed side which face just 2 tracks on the line side but you also have to set up the 12 passive tracks making 28 tracks in all. Hence 14 on each side.

Polarity changes automatically at 12 and 6 oclock  ......very simple menu option.
 

 

 

To select a track.....dial the number with the red knob then press it.

So far so good. I am very happy with the precision and accurate indexing of the bridge. A supposed feature is that only one of the segments leading on and off the bridge are powered. They can be manually switched (bottom green button). Not sure how this will work in automatic mode, although as a last resort it can, I believe, be by-passed

Next stage is to set all this up in Train Controller.

I am afraid this will be of little interest to most but may be of use to anyone contemplating installing a turntable in the future. I will however try and actually take some loco shots next week as well.

 

Regards from Vancouver

 

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by john dew
21/9/22 Photos

[john dew]

Not sure which is more boring .......ballasting itself or posting about it!

With 14 exit tracks and all the associated approach track there is a daunting amount of shiny new track to paint, weather and ballast

I try and relieve the boredom by breaking it up into manageable sections......last week was the three LMS tracks
 

 

 

 

 

 

I have never worked out how to spray in the layout room so everything is hand painted!

The rails and chairs are painted in Raw Sienna.......at first sight its a bit fierce. You can certainly spot any newly laid track. After a while though,it weathers down to a more realistic shade.

Sleepers are painted in a random mix of Burnt Umber, Black and Grey. 

I am using a mixture of 00 and N Woodland Scenic Ash ballast. Spooned and brushed into place.....allowed to settle for 24 hours. For the last ten years I have used  Mrs Ds cast off scent spray to dampen the ballast before droppng diluted PVA. Recently it has developed the power of a fire hose (see below) . I need to find a more gentle alternative.
 

 

 

 

 

This shot is out of focus (fortunately?) but the ballasted spur still resembles a lunar landscape.There is a fair bit of fettling still to do in order to get the compacted surface I am aiming for. Will this be completed by Christmas........possibly!



Last post I promised to post some loco shots

 

 

 

 

An Earl, a Knight of the realm and a full house of stately homes......(a Castle,Hall, two Granges and a Manor) all on parade to check shed doorway clearances

 

 

 

 

 

The Scalescenes shed was scratch built to align with the Heljan TT geometry. Fleischmann tracks exit at a narrower angle......hence the additional tracks that I have gained. I have always worried whether I would be able to utilise all six bays.......so this was the moment of truth

 

 

Not ruler straight but, after a bit of tweaking, all the birds are home to roost.

All 6 locos lamped up ready for their next turn........really?  This, perhaps, highlights the modellers conflict between realism and practicality. It really isnt feasible to be constantly changing lamps.....I would rather have my trains running correctly coded and accept locos on shed looking a little odd........out of interest is this what most people do?

Regards from Vancouver where the temperature is dropping like a stone.......not good for the tomatoes but great for modelling

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by john dew
20/9/22 Photos

[richard i]

Lamps are set on locos for me too. Only a few are drilled and tacky wax fitted as I have yet to fully decided which service they will run on. On shed they have to live with that.

Richard

[M.I.B]

I am unsure as how to handle the lamps question.

 

There are three viable options as I see it:

 

1.  Move them around with tacky wax etc.

 

2.  Fix them and have them on shed and perhaps wrong for some of the workings.

 

3.  Just don't care.  It's all about balancing levels of enjoyment and what level of accuracy  I will accept.

 

 

 

 

But I am sure that Rule 1 will apply.

[St Enodoc]

I am unsure as how to handle the lamps question.

 

There are three viable options as I see it:

 

1.  Move them around with tacky wax etc.

 

2.  Fix them and have them on shed and perhaps wrong for some of the workings.

 

3.  Just don't care.  It's all about balancing levels of enjoyment and what level of accuracy  I will accept.

 

 

 

 

But I am sure that Rule 1 will apply.

Steel office staples for the brackets and micromagnets stuck into small recesses drilled into the side of the lamps.

[trw1089]

Really liking the look of that loco shed John, great work!

 

I use a sliver of blue tack on my loco lamps, mostly on mixed traffic and goods locos, but it is a bit fiddly.

 

Cheers

Tony

[john dew]

I am unsure as how to handle the lamps question.

 

There are three viable options as I see it:

 

1.  Move them around with tacky wax etc.

 

2.  Fix them and have them on shed and perhaps wrong for some of the workings.

 

3.  Just don't care.  It's all about balancing levels of enjoyment and what level of accuracy  I will accept.

 

 

 

But I am sure that Rule 1 will apply.

I dont think 3 would work for me. I dont like to see my trains improperly dressed. Old habits die hard!

[john dew]

Steel office staples for the brackets and micromagnets stuck into small recesses drilled into the side of the lamps.

Having been following and admiring your Mid-Cornwall Lines thread I am not surprised you have come up with such an elegant solution........I am afraid I glue mine,so its a good job I like weathering.....although in fairness most of my locos have had unchanged head codes for years.

 

Are you able to watch England in South Africa tomorrow? I will be reduced to “as it happens” in the Telegraph.....very sad

[john dew]

Really liking the look of that loco shed John, great work!

I use a sliver of blue tack on my loco lamps, mostly on mixed traffic and goods locos, but it is a bit fiddly.

Cheers

Tony

Thanks Tony..........the shed itself is over 4 years old, its made up of components from the Scalescene small engine shed kits joined together to make a part roundhouse, not sure what the technical term is. Its not very prototypical but I believe there was one in Cornwall?

 

The whole shed layout is rather unrealistic although there is usually one very obscure precedent for each inconsistency. All combined together though requires a heavy dose of Rule#1

 

Best Wishes

 

John

[St Enodoc]

Having been following and admiring your Mid-Cornwall Lines thread I am not surprised you have come up with such an elegant solution........I am afraid I glue mine,so its a good job I like weathering.....although in fairness most of my locos have had unchanged head codes for years.

 

Are you able to watch England in South Africa tomorrow? I will be reduced to “as it happens” in the Telegraph.....very sad

Thanks John, much appreciated. Although I've done some trials with the lamps I haven't fitted them throughout the fleet yet, so I hope that the experiments translate into success on a wider scale.

 

I'm not sure about SA v E, as it will be the middle of the night here. I'll check if it's on and if so record it and watch on Sunday morning. I will, however, be watching the Wallabies and Ireland from Brisbane - from the comfort of my lounge with a glass or two of red I think.

[St Enodoc]

Thanks John, much appreciated. Although I've done some trials with the lamps I haven't fitted them throughout the fleet yet, so I hope that the experiments translate into success on a wider scale.

 

I'm not sure about SA v E, as it will be the middle of the night here. I'll check if it's on and if so record it and watch on Sunday morning. I will, however, be watching the Wallabies and Ireland from Brisbane - from the comfort of my lounge with a glass or two of red I think.

Excellent match from Brisbane, dominated by heroic defence from both sides with some massive hits. Proper rugby for once. Oh, and yes SA v E is on Fox Sports here at 0130 Sunday morning so the recorder is set.

[richard.h]

Great to see your progress on the engine shed, with regard to loco lamps i'm afraid I just glue mine on set for the most likely turn the loco would have been used for.

I tried temporary fixing (too fiddly) and using tacky wax but some came loose and then of course you are thinking where did it go and has it done any damage.