GRANBY JUNCTION - Shunting Siphons for the Up Parcels with a Manor!

[john dew]

Thanks again for the likes/ticks guys. Glad that I am not boring you with this LMS chapter

 

 

Unlike the UK we have been enjoying some rather pleasant spring weather. The downside, of course, is that the garden beckons.....not so much an invitation more like a command!   

So modelling has taken a bit of a back seat, however I have managed to finish the weathering of the locos involved in the LMS suburban routine. 

Four locos are required. One for each of the two trains and a relief loco at both Granby and Birkenhead (Storage).
All have to be not only ultra reliable but also have similar performance characteristics.

The first three were easy to select.

Two ex Lancashire & Yorkshire 2-4-2 Tanks....".the Lanky tank"

 

 

and an ex LNWR Webb Coal Tank

 

 

 

Choosing the fourth loco has proved something of a challenge

I cant make up my mind between an 0-6-0 Jinty........the LMS equivalent of the GWR pannier
 

 

or this Ivatt 2-6-2T
 

 

 

 

Both are long serving veterans of Granby II........in fact 1202 may have even briefly graced Granby I  which makes her over 20 years old.

Both were amongst the first locos to receive TCS decoders (hard wired of course) when I first started with DCC. After some experimenting I found it was better to pay a little more and now only use Lenz. The TCS give an ok performance but they all have a very noticeable spike in their speed curve and there is perceptible surging at the lower speed steps. On a roundy roundy its not an issue ........they run their schedule and one hardly notices these imperfections ......its a different manner when performing very precise manoeuvres alongside more modern locos with Lenz chips. So a Lenz Silver Mini is on its way from Cornwall and I just have to decide which loco it will go in.    
 

 

 

 

Finally here is a before and after with the Lanky Tanks and a carriage
 

 

 

 

 

I confess to having some misgivings when I started to apply multiple washes to the carriage roof and the military part of me regrets the loss of the highly polished loco. However I do believe that one of the hallmarks of a believable layout is consistency.........and that is what I am slowly trying to achieve in grimy Granby

Regards from Vancouver    

 

Edited March 20, 2018 by john dew

[M.I.B]

John,  

 

I felt the same way about weathering when I began,  for the same reasons as you, but quickly realised that in our selected modelling period, there was neither the manpower nor funds to turn everything out in "chocolate box lid" type cleanliness, unlike a branch line in Shirtbutton days.   

 

So the Lanky Tank and LMS carriages look fine and well suited to the period in terms of weathering.

 

I am one of the few who doesn't do back-flips over  panniers, so I would have chosen the Ivatt over the Jinty just for that reason.

 

Keep up the dirty work.  Looks good.

[john dew]

John,  

 

I felt the same way about weathering when I began,  for the same reasons as you, but quickly realised that in our selected modelling period, there was neither the manpower nor funds to turn everything out in "chocolate box lid" type cleanliness, unlike a branch line in Shirtbutton days.   

 

So the Lanky Tank and LMS carriages look fine and well suited to the period in terms of weathering.

 

I am one of the few who doesn't do back-flips over  panniers, so I would have chosen the Ivatt over the Jinty just for that reason.

 

Keep up the dirty work.  Looks good.

 

Thanks Tinker

 

I am veering towards the Ivatt.................although I believe its a bit like the Hawksworths.... ........ie how many actually saw service in that livery? Certainly 1202 is one of the reasons Granby's time period stretched into 1948.

 

I have always had a soft spot for it........it was a beautiful runner straight out of the box at a time when some of the other RTR locos I bought were indifferent to say the least.....a Hornby Fowler sits in a display case as a permanent reminder of the perfect non runner.

 

Its a split chassis and was a pain to chip with the coupling rod mechanism........hopefully I will not need to strip it again......just remove the body cut the wires and re solder.......oh and make better job of hiding the wiring this time!

 

The final factor in its favour is that its the loco I best remember from my childhood. Once a day it used to run from Southport to Liverpool on the electric line with two blood and custard coaches which were eventually attached/detached to Liverpool Lime St-Euston train at Edge Hill 

 

 Cheers

 

John

[john dew]

Here is the video about Granby's suburban passenger service that I have been writing about for the past few weeks

Its a little longer than I intended but I found it quite difficult to capture the sequence in a coherent manner........there are a minimum of three locos in motion throughout and the activity takes place on both sides of the room at the same time.

I also included a little clip at the end (which you can skip) in an attempt to show how RR&Co handles absolute block working.

 

 

 

 

​https://youtube.com/watch?v=UPLVZqrTGm8

 

I had just finished the video when I received the sad news of my friend John Flann's death.

 

John was one of the first followers of Granby and was very supportive of my posts. He did however enjoy poking gentle fun at my enthusiasm for DCC and computers so its only fitting that every time I see this video I will be reminded of our friendship.

 

​

Edited March 28, 2018 by john dew

[gwrrob]

Sad news John with the passing of John Flann of Hintock fame.  

[john dew]

Sad news John with the passing of John Flann of Hintock fame.

 

Thanks Robin.......it is indeed......I know that I will miss him a great deal

[M.I.B]

Very sad news indeed.

 

Thank you for making and posting the video, and continuing to inspire.

Edited March 29, 2018 by M.I.B

[7007GreatWestern]

Hello John,

 

The news of John Flann is very sad indeed. It's hard to believe that barely two weeks ago he was alive, well and reminiscing on this very thread about his experiences passing through Liverpool in 1950 as a squaddie bound for Hong Kong and his time at the London Midland Region Estates Office. I can't claim to have had the pleasure of knowing him but from his posts he always seemed to me to be courteous, dignified, respectfulness in the way he spoke to people.

 

John, your latest video is 'one superlative after another'. Some things are just more apparent when seen in a video than a still. For a start, I like the way the layout is lit. I'm guessing you're using spotlights rather than strip lighting? The virtue of point light sources is they give definite shadows which in turn make the layout feel more 3-dimensional. Also apparent is the smooth running of the locomotives which is all the more impressive since the ones used in the film are all 3-axle pickup. Do you use 'stay alive' capacitors to augment the pickups? What sort of track cleaning and wheel cleaning regime do you have? I can suggest only one (slight) improvement. In the sequence where you show the RR&Co control screen and the changing aspect of some of the train icons, it might be an idea to 'cut away' to the corresponding changes out on the 'real' Granby.

 

I can now officially award you highest honour that can possibly befall the creator of any model railway. I've shown your work to both my Mother and Mrs. Andy, neither of whom have the slightest interest in model railways yet both were impressed! I'd say that's the equivalent of Ken Dodd's joke about playing the Glasgow Empire on a Saturday night after Rangers and Celtic lost.....one tough gig!

 

Andy.

[M.I.B]

David,

 

I had never met John either, apart from bumping into him and Hintock on this forum.

 

And i agree with your statement about his manner, language and attitude.  Sadly there are some on other posts who should perhaps take a leaf from that book.

[john dew]

Hello John,

 

The news of John Flann is very sad indeed. It's hard to believe that barely two weeks ago he was alive, well and reminiscing on this very thread about his experiences passing through Liverpool in 1950 as a squaddie bound for Hong Kong and his time at the London Midland Region Estates Office. I can't claim to have had the pleasure of knowing him but from his posts he always seemed to me to be courteous, dignified, respectfulness in the way he spoke to people.

 

John, your latest video is 'one superlative after another'. Some things are just more apparent when seen in a video than a still. For a start, I like the way the layout is lit. I'm guessing you're using spotlights rather than strip lighting? The virtue of point light sources is they give definite shadows which in turn make the layout feel more 3-dimensional. Also apparent is the smooth running of the locomotives which is all the more impressive since the ones used in the film are all 3-axle pickup. Do you use 'stay alive' capacitors to augment the pickups? What sort of track cleaning and wheel cleaning regime do you have? I can suggest only one (slight) improvement. In the sequence where you show the RR&Co control screen and the changing aspect of some of the train icons, it might be an idea to 'cut away' to the corresponding changes out on the 'real' Granby.

 

I can now officially award you highest honour that can possibly befall the creator of any model railway. I've shown your work to both my Mother and Mrs. Andy, neither of whom have the slightest interest in model railways yet both were impressed! I'd say that's the equivalent of Ken Dodd's joke about playing the Glasgow Empire on a Saturday night after Rangers and Celtic lost.....one tough gig!

 

Andy.

 

 

Thank you so much for that response.........I was particularly tickled by the last para .......so tickled in fact that I forgot to rate it until this evening.......I do apologise. Its probably the nicest compliment I have ever been paid.

 

John Flann was in his mid eighties........he was remarkably fit although there was a little scare last summer.  When my time comes I rather hope it will be like John .....get up.....potter on the layout .......how evocative was that last shot with the glasses...

 

I am so glad that you and your family enjoyed the video. To answer your questions.....the room is lit by adjustable LED spots on tracks but the room faces west and there are two reasonable sized windows ......which in the afternoon can cause marked variations when shooting the station area.

 

The more frequently one runs trains with DCC the cleaner the track! Its one of the hidden benefits of DCC that you don't often read about. None of the locos involved had stay alive.......I do have a couple of legacy capacitors that I used to use to ensure the Hornby/Dapol 14xx ran ok.......I hardwired them to the autocoach and put pick ups on the coach as well. They are now in a Dean Goods and R.O.D.

 

As you probably gathered from the video, smooth uninterrupted running  is absolutely essential  with RR&Co.  Locos just hesitating rather than stalling can cause havoc. All the stop markers are based on a time and distance calculation from the moment a loco is detected entering a block. Its all very well "stopping the statutory 6' short...etc"  (I admit I was showing off) ......if the approaching loco hesitates on the approach it stops short 8'.....fails to couple and departs for the head shunt empty handed........calamity...........so there is a lot of focus on properly adjusted pick ups (the locos used are prone to mis-alignment) and frequent wheel cleaning.    

 

You are quite right about the RR&Co clip........it was a bit of an afterthought and I am afraid it showed. Maybe I should just try a very simple video cutting back and forth between the loco and the screen.......but I wonder how many viewers would be interested?

 

Once again many thanks for such a supportive post

 

Much tickled in Vancouver

 

John

[Mikkel]

A lovely video John. I especially like scenes filmed through a gap between buildings - always very effective, I think.

 

One of the things I admired about John Flann's work was his ability to arrange his layouts so that they were visually balanced and interesting but still looked natural. From his posts it was clearly something he spent time on and found important, and the end result was always very convincing, I felt. Not to mention the buildings, which seemed to have been built with straightforward techniques but looked superb.

 

It must be hard for you to have lost a good friend. I'm sure he would have appreciated the video - even if it shows pictures of the RR&Co screen 

[john dew]

A lovely video John. I especially like scenes filmed through a gap between buildings - always very effective, I think.

 

One of the things I admired about John Flann's work was his ability to arrange his layouts so that they were visually balanced and interesting but still looked natural. From his posts it was clearly something he spent time on and found important, and the end result was always very convincing, I felt. Not to mention the buildings, which seemed to have been built with straightforward techniques but looked superb.

 

It must be hard for you to have lost a good friend. I'm sure he would have appreciated the video - even if it shows pictures of the RR&Co screen 

 

 

Thank you Mikkel that is very kind of you. I must confess that filming through a gap was more a question of necessity than artistic choice! As you once  observed Granby gives the impression of having grown organically over time. As I completed different projects I rarely gave thought to camera sight lines and now it is beginning to be something of a problem.......the floor was cluttered with temporarily removed buildings when I shot the video.

 

You couldn't imagine a greater contrast with John's style. He did indeed spend a considerable amount of time considering the overall composition of his layouts .......it was a mark of his ability that the finished result looked so natural and uncontrived.

 

Best wishes from Vancouver

[trw1089]

Hi John

 

A fantastic video and an excellent demonstration of the capabilities of your layout and mastery of RR&Co. it’s also nice that the video will be a reminder of John Flann. What I find comforting in times like these is that we have the contributions of John, Dave Shakespeare and others on this forum to remind us of their legacy.

 

Looking forward to more developments in the world of Granby.

 

Cheers

Tony

[brianusa]

Hi John, happened upon your layout for the first time - most impressive and a nice to see a big layout for a change.  Being from GW country, its odd that most of my stuff is LMS but have recently added more Great Western but not quite sure how to justify both lines although the GW got as far as Birkenhead as well as other inroads.  But my big LMS train is the PInes Express which would take a bit of explaining.

When we're next up your way, do you like visitors?

 

Brian.

Edited April 1, 2018 by brianusa

[7007GreatWestern]

Brian,

 

If you're looking for candidate locations to justify joint running or GW and LMS stock I can suggest several.

 

My own favourite is the North & West Route running from Shrewsbury to Newport with LMS locos getting as far south as Hereford or even Pontypool Road. The line passes through some fabulous scenery along the 'Welsh Marches' and its metals saw Kings, Castles, Counties and Stars run alongside Royal Scots, Jubilees and Patriots (Rebuilt and Unrebuilt). If you model Shrewsbury station itself you can add 'Duchesses' to that list!

 

As you say, the GWR and LNWR/LMS operated the Chester to Birkenhead line jointly but for the latter part of the line's period of steam operation the GWR's trains were pulled by nothing more glamorous than Large Prairie tanks. 

 

In terms of running the 'Pines Express' alongside GWR locos I may have an answer for you. I believe the GWR and LMS shared running rights over the line from Standish Junction (just south of Gloucester) as far as Cheltenham and that included the 'Pines Express'. There's a fascinating webpage describing in detail operations at Cheltenham Lansdown signal box, a location which saw GW, LMS and Southern locomotives! An excerpt of the train register clearly shows the Pines Express:-

 

https://sites.google.com/site/gloucestershirerailwaymemories/home/signal-box-registers/lansdown-junction-signal-box-train-register-4-february-1956

 

I hope the above is of interest.

 

Andy.

[john dew]

Hi John

 

A fantastic video and an excellent demonstration of the capabilities of your layout and mastery of RR&Co. it’s also nice that the video will be a reminder of John Flann. What I find comforting in times like these is that we have the contributions of John, Dave Shakespeare and others on this forum to remind us of their legacy.

 

.Looking forward to more developments in the world of Granby

 

Cheers

Tony

 

Thanks Tony

 

As you know I have always enjoyed the videos you have produced of Wakefield West so a comment like that is much appreciated.

 

I like making videos but they sure take a lot of time..........I enjoy the creative challenge of trying to capture a complex sequence of moves into a coherent and interesting story but it definitely makes one focus on smooth running and perfect timing. Its amazing how those occasional bugs which one shrugs off in a normal operating session can come back to haunt you when filming.

 

"Looking forward to more developments in the world of Granby"........  You must be a mind reader  

 

​Best wishes

 

 

John

[john dew]

Hi John, happened upon your layout for the first time - most impressive and a nice to see a big layout for a change.  Being from GW country, its odd that most of my stuff is LMS but have recently added more Great Western but not quite sure how to justify both lines although the GW got as far as Birkenhead as well as other inroads.  But my big LMS train is the PInes Express which would take a bit of explaining.

When we're next up your way, do you like visitors?

 

Brian.

 

Hi Brian

 

Glad you enjoyed the layout........you are more than welcome to see it when you next visit Vancouver.......I keep forgetting how relatively close we are. Up until a few years ago we used to sail down to Seattle in early May to take part in their Opening day on the (Mortlake?) cut.

 

Andy has answered your question about joint GWR LMS operation far better than I.  That's another fascinating link you have found Andy....really interesting stuff there. It was neat to see the actual reporting sheets and some of the lateness reports 

 

Part of the attraction of Granby's fictional location was the opportunity to intermingle LMS and GWR because of the joint lines you mentioned. There was a weekly service from Birkenhead to the South Coast alternating GWR and Southern Stock.. The GWR had a regular connection from Chester via Warrington to Manchester.........so I have devised an imaginary link with the Pines Express! Living where we do we can be a little cavalier with geography.....I suspect your visitors at Gig Harbour are no more knowledgeable than mine  

 

Best wishes. 

 

 

John

[brianusa]

Andy, I appreciate your insight as my knowledge of railways outside of the South West is minimal, especially those other than the GW.  There is not a lot of opportunity for variation in tinplate but I can make up a decent passenger train, hence the Pines Express and a rather shortened version of perhaps the Cornish Riviera.  As John mentions, over here in the PNW, many liberties can be taken without fear of comment, all they want to see are the trains going round and round!

 

Brian.

[7007GreatWestern]

 As John mentions, over here in the PNW, many liberties can be taken without fear of comment, all they want to see are the trains going round and round!

 

Brian.

 

Hi Brian,

 

I'm all for taking liberties so long as they serve the only purpose I can see to this madness called model railways - namely to bring pleasure to those who own, operate and view them. Someone who slavishly pursues prototype realism to the extent they have ceased to enjoy their pastime has lost the plot. They might as well be at work! If your tinplate stock gives you joy, it is serving its purpose.

 

I'll be honest and say when I opened you post this morning I didn't know the answer to your question about "The Pines" but I had a pleasant half hour or so researching the best answer I could give. I recall many years ago one of the Railway Modelling Magazines had a 'prototype for everything' section. In it were examples of all manner of exceptions to rules or common assumptions, enabling modellers to be less hidebound in their thinking. The truth could often be stranger than fiction. I think that short section of track in Gloucestershire where LMS and GWR trains would occasionally race one another could well qualify!

 

Andy.

[john dew]

.So glad you guys like the video......thank you for the comments and ticks

 

During a lengthy running session the layout suffers quite a lot of "collateral" damage ....particularly at the fringes.

With Easter and some ok weather, modelling last week was mostly repairs and maintenance. Particularly signals,  chimney pots and horizontal people.

This device was much used:

 

I wish I could devise a hinge for my signal posts.....I have lost count of the number of times they have been repaired 

The Metcalfe buildings which screen the storage yards were all removed for the shoot. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

The three separate modules of terraced houses were used in Granby II .....must be 15 years old and are now showing their age........so a bit of judicious weathering helped to conceal some of the many scars.

Lots of chimney pots and in some cases stacks replaced.......they are really vulnerable when leaning over. 

By fiddling around with the spacing I created this yard immediately in front of the uncoupling magnets on the LMS siding.........the uncoupling is pretty reliable but its prudent to check!

 

I am currently painting a few kids to play football there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another gap to check the Loco spur.........and a chimney pot that got missed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually that shot was included for the sausages.....they seem to have gone out of fashion on ANTB.....time for a revival

All back to normal so 2409 Dean Goods can shunt the yard 

 

 

 

 

I even found time to put a tarp on that leaky van.............thank you MIB for the idea.

 

 

 

 

Regards from Vancouver where it is now very wet and likely to continue so.......lots of time for modelling!


John

Edited September 23, 2022 by john dew
22/9/2022 Photos

[trw1089]

Such a nice interlude on Granby. Glad it’s not just my layout’s fiddly bits that get knocked about.

[M.I.B]

John,

 

Tarp'd van looks great and it reminds me - the tiny numbers on some of the tarps     7 over 35  etc   do you think that is a manufactured date?

 

If so I am going to black some of mine out.    My tarps are all dated mid 30s - would they have survived to the late 40s?  Or by then have been cut up for patches at the tarp depot in Wolverhampton.

 

Modelling a patched tarp - that's definitely not an option in N or even in OO perhaps.  I'll leave that to the O guage gang.

Edited April 6, 2018 by M.I.B

[john dew]

Such a nice interlude on Granby. Glad it’s not just my layout’s fiddly bits that get knocked about.

 

Thanks Tony

 

Interlude is a very appropriate description......I am just about to start some major demoiltion ........full report after the week end

 

Cheers  

[john dew]

John,

 

Tarp'd van looks great and it reminds me - the tiny numbers on some of the tarps     7 over 35  etc   do you think that is a manufactured date?

 

If so I am going to black some of mine out.    My tarps are all dated mid 30s - would they have survived to the late 40s?  Or by then have been cut up for patches at the tarp depot in Wolverhampton.

 

Modelling a patched tarp - that's definitely not an option in N or even in OO perhaps.  I'll leave that to the O guage gang.

 

Having just read this...... http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/9-loads/9-tarps.htm......it is indeed the date of manufacture. The writer reckons the life span of a tarp would be 5-6 years........and a worn out tarp is pretty useless even with a war on.........so guess what I am about to do!

 

Its another great article from that site......that guy is a mine of information.

 

Cheers

[M.I.B]

Thanks for researching that John.  It has been in the back of my mind for a while and seeing your van pushed it to the fore.  

 

Doing my opens and the van the other week didn't jog my mind - don't know why.

 

Black marker pen it is..............