RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted March 14, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 14, 2016 You need to allow for perspective. Gimp has some tools for this but I'm no expert here! Hi Simon, See my page: http://templot.com/martweb/info_files/gimp_example.htm That page has had more hits over the years it has been on there than anything to do with Templot. regards, Martin. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 If the buildings are still extant, you could use google satelite, take a couple of dimensions using the ruler tool, then take a screen shot and paste it into Autocad and then scale the picture using the known dimensions. When I have used photos to draw up buildings I draw a box to the scale dimension of a door and then scale the picture to fit the door to the box, it may not be dead accurate, but everything is in the same proportions so it looks right and no need to measure or count bricks etc. Don't forget the National Library of Scotland georeferenced map resource available free here - you can slide the transparency up and down from a Bing satellite image (which has the usual rather crude scale indicator). Mcr. I see has the 1913 6" inch OS map availabe - OK for my modelling purposes, maybe not for Ron's. In retirement I can no longer afford Autocad (I used to teach it !). But for my purposes Paintshop, with its rulers on serves me rather well. Don't forget you can use a home made gauge to aid brick dimensioning (and have all you emigre Northerners remembered that robust Lancashire bricks like Accrington Iron Nori red pressed are four course to 1' 1 1/2" not 1' 0" ?) dh dh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) Martin thank you. I am reminded of an advert, possibly for the AA, in which the broken down motorist says "I'm not an expert"... "but I know a man who is" or words to that effect! cheers Simon Edited March 14, 2016 by Simond Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted March 14, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 14, 2016 I have imported photos into Autocad and then on a different layer, drawn a rectangle too the same size as a known object,ie a door or window and then adjusted the size of the photo to suit. It may not be 100% accurate, but it will all be in the same proprtions. Be carefull with rooves though, unless you have a gable end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 SS, Your approach will work as long as the photo is "square on" and the axis of the camera is pretty much central in the image you're trying to scale from. If the axis is not perpendicular, then you need the technique in Martin's help page - and if the axis is offset, you will get "keystone" effects, which I expect GIMP can also correct for. I have had a deal of success in scanning drawings, and then rescaling them in TurboCAD (el cheapo clone of AutoCad) but of course, they are already planar. Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 RAR This may be affordable, even in retirement http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Avanquest-TurboCAD-20-Deluxe-2D-CAD-Design-3D-Modeling-Software-for-Windows-/121885026255?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368 Of course, having retired, it may be the last thing you want Usual disclaimers, of course. Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted March 16, 2016 Author Share Posted March 16, 2016 The part rebuild of the canopy between the two goods offices is almost complete. Just requires re-glazing before placing on the layout - The near canopy corner will be supported from the CLC Goods Warehouse corner. The nearest tubular canopy support has the round concrete base modelled from Plasticene Canopy fixed to one of the goods offices A 3.5m length of angle has been fabricated from 20thou microstrip, and will be used to construct the next canopy bay trusses - The windows for the extended and re-shaped end of CLC Goods Warehouse are in the process of being fitted. Pictures when the flat roof has been re-laid 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phixer64 Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Can't find the exquisite modelling button, simply stunning. Regards Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Ron Where the girders meet the wall, you have "stones" set into the wall, to spread the load into the brickwork - does the girder need some further parts in the web to support the upper flange - it seems somehow "incomplete" to my eye? Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted March 16, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 16, 2016 Ron A couple of those shots, taken underneath the canopy look very atmospheric and thats without any of it located on the trainset. Magnificent! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted March 16, 2016 Author Share Posted March 16, 2016 Ron Where the girders meet the wall, you have "stones" set into the wall, to spread the load into the brickwork - does the girder need some further parts in the web to support the upper flange - it seems somehow "incomplete" to my eye? Best Simon Hi, Simon The photo showing the original canopy structure and its support, indicates that the end of girder was encased within the wall of the office block with no visible additional support for the upper flanges. I can only assume that there was a steel member between the lower and upper flanges, similar to the other end of the girder, that was within the brickwork Looking at pictures of other buildings during their demolition, where the remaining canopies were originally abutted to, they show what remains of the upper and lower flanges of the girders just proud of the brickwork, suggesting that the end of flange members were within the brickwork Ron 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalfytich Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Ron Where the girders meet the wall, you have "stones" set into the wall, to spread the load into the brickwork - does the girder need some further parts in the web to support the upper flange - it seems somehow "incomplete" to my eye? Best Simon The supports under the steel are called padstones and we still have to fit them either cast in situ or precast, maybe a short pre-stressed lintel for instance. I've never had experience of steel which enters the wall in two places like those trusses so I don't know whether there would normally be padstones under both levels Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 (edited) The supports under the steel are called padstones and we still have to fit them either cast in situ or precast, maybe a short pre-stressed lintel for instance. I've never had experience of steel which enters the wall in two places like those trusses so I don't know whether there would normally be padstones under both levels Dave One would have expected quite a bit of expansion and contraction of that girder under the glazed roof (even in Manchester). Being able to slide over the padstone would have been a simple way of coping with that movement. Building it into the brickwork I would have thought would have caused cracking of the wall above the padstone. But those up shots of the roof are wonderful. I so remember the feel of those heavy panelled doors with n+1 coats of treacly maroon paint on them. dh Edited March 17, 2016 by runs as required Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted March 18, 2016 Author Share Posted March 18, 2016 Using a good part of the 3.5m length of fabricated styrene angle, have built two lengths of canopy girder. One 390mm long and the other 167mm long. This shorter length will be used to extend the existing long canopy girder to its overall required length of 542mm The build of the shorter girder has been photographed as the construction proceeded - First the main elements cut to length - four pieces of angle 167mm long, two 20th x 80th x 16.5mm end strips and 22 diagonal struts/ties 20th x 40th x 20.5mm long Top and bottom angles fixed with the two end strips. The spacing between the two angles is ensured by the use of a 14.5mm wide movable spacer, and two SS rulers The first diagonal strip fixed checking that the linear spacing is 15mm Second diagonal strip fixed, checking the overall linear spacing is 30mm Eleven diagonal strips complete the first side assembly Short pieces of strip as back to back spacers, and 20th x 80th x 3mm spacers/vertical plates for attachment of the roof trusses, fixed to the rear of the assembly The remaining two angle lengths fixed to the spacers Second set of eleven diagonal strips fixed to complete the girder The girder awaits painting, and fixing to the existing girder. The 390mm long girder will be painted at the same time and allow construction of the next canopied bay 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted March 19, 2016 Author Share Posted March 19, 2016 Always trying to find shortcuts and new methods to achieving stronger structural builds, and easier and faster construction. The strip method to fabricating Tees & Angles, and subsequent cut to length sections being used to construct a fairly flimsy structure, is slow and prone to warping, due to the number of individual joints and seams Have found a quicker method using fewer pieces of styrene which produces an overall stable structure with less warping. The flanges of the glazing bars and the roof purlins are cut as a single fret from a sheet of 20thou plasticard. The webs of the glazing bars and purlins are then fixed onto the upper and lower faces of the fret. This produces a single roof/glazing assembly ready for fixing to the roof trusses of the canopy Pictures to follow when ambient lighting conditions improve. Hopefully tomorrow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted March 20, 2016 Author Share Posted March 20, 2016 Pictures of the glazing bar base cut-out, and start of canopy #4 build - The base is cut from 20 thou black styrene - to assist in displaying the build steps. The glazing bars and ridge purlin added in white styrene Mid and eaves purlins, and trusses added in white styrene 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted April 3, 2016 Author Share Posted April 3, 2016 Keeping a reasonable supply of specific items of styrene is becoming more difficult as the final structures require differing quantities of various sizes not normally held in stock Whilst waiting on the next delivery of styrene (from UK), took the opportunity to also stock up on 1.25mm thick mountcard (from Germany), 5mm thick Foamboard (from Spain), and new cutting mat and blade (from USA) - all in preparation for the Train Shed West Wall and Goods Yard Canopies construction Have cut the mountcard laminations for 8 bays of the 15 bays of the wall, comprising Inner Cores and Faces, and Outer Cores and Faces. Printed and cut the Inner and Outer Brickwork card facings ready for tonight's modelling session This morning took to the Silhouette cutter to produce a sample of the brickwork detail for the high level ornamentation - specifically the two levels of brickwork laid at 45 deg - The sample was made up from 6 laminations of 10thou styrene - 3 layers make up a 1mm (40thou) brick height - it's the solvent welds that make up the difference in height when no pressure is applied Sufficient for 16 bays can be cut from a single 270mm x 140mm sheet of 10thou styrene The rest of the ornamental brickwork will be produced in a straightforward manner 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebs Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Utterly brilliant Ron! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Superlatives are inadequate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Superlatives are inadequate. Sounds like the Vogon guard:- "Resistance is useless" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted April 5, 2016 Author Share Posted April 5, 2016 Quick update on the Train Shed East Wall construction - The upper wall section is 3 bays of internal face and core with the printed brickwork facings The lower wall section is 4 bays of external face and core with the printed brickwork facings - work in progress with two bay facings, and window rebates fixed, two rebates await fixing The internal and external wall sections will sandwich the centre core comprising the windows and doors Still await the styrene delivery which will enable progress on the goods yard canopies Detailing of the Parcels Offices on the Station Forecourt is almost complete - pictures tomorrow 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted April 6, 2016 Author Share Posted April 6, 2016 The Station Parcels Offices which faced onto the forecourt. Strangely it was the only building or structure on the whole site which was not rectangular or tapered in plan - Just needs planting on the layout, and a small canopy constructing over the public access frontage 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 The curvature of the walls almost predicts the coming of Art Deco Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 Ron That's b****y fabulous. Jaw still on floor... Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixoh8sixoh Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 That is fantastic! What a great, quirky building! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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