RMweb Gold big jim Posted January 5, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 5, 2011 here is bryans latest sound chip fitted into the new 28xx/38xx model from Hornby, it has all the same functions as the castle chip including whistles, sleeper grind, injectors, safety valve, coupling etc.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awhXI1ZcuSc there is another shorter video in the products section in the Hornby 28xx thread but this video shows off a few more functions than the other one bryan has fitted the chip in the tender under which he has put a larger 28mm round speaker, i think he said he had to dremel a bit of the tender chassis out, the sound resonates nicely in the tender and i think it gives a nice crisp, sharp "chuff" enjoy, and comments welcome as usual 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 5, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 5, 2011 Just about the best UK steam outline sound I have ever heard, quite amazing in fact that someone should have got it that good! The vacuum pump noise in particular is very effective although I'm a bit concerned that I might be picking up some large ejector sound which the 28 shouldn't have? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Very impressed by that - sounds better than a lot of DCC steam sound chips I've heard! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 5, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 5, 2011 That does sound very nice, I wonder if it will be possible to shoe horn it into Dapols 38xx when that comes out? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rorz101uk Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Yep just sound like a real western should, i also like the the large e-injetor that come on? i have just fitted a sound chip my 38XX didn't need to do any drilling or milling, just took the weight out of the tender and going to add some liquid lead to the tender and mix it with some coal! i will be send it the loco to howes for a reblow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted January 6, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2011 Having ridden behind 3803 last year at the South Devon Railway the sound is spot on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f02X-fX_2DE The sound chip coupled with a couple of dozen wagons and well laid track really would sound and look really good on a model. Regards, Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted January 6, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2011 3803 was the loco the sounds were recorded from, that may be where the large ejector sound crept in from, originally bryan was expecting a 38xx to fit rather than the 28xx.... stationmaster, (or anyone in the know for that matter) does a 38xx have the large ejector and the 28xx not, bryan would like to know so he can change the chip slightly if there is a difference? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted January 6, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2011 3803 was the loco the sounds were recorded from, that may be where the large ejector sound crept in from, originally bryan was expecting a 38xx to fit rather than the 28xx.... Well whether it was for a 28xx or 38xx, it still sounds very impressive. Regards, Nick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 6, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2011 3803 was the loco the sounds were recorded from, that may be where the large ejector sound crept in from, originally bryan was expecting a 38xx to fit rather than the 28xx.... stationmaster, (or anyone in the know for that matter) does a 38xx have the large ejector and the 28xx not, bryan would like to know so he can change the chip slightly if there is a difference? Must be something about the sound or the way the loco was being driven as neither the 28XX nor the 38XX had the large 4 cone ejector (easy to tell - there is pipe behind the right hand side boiler handrail). Did he record it when the loco was working a passenger train I wonder as there seems to be a noticeable (to me) amount of ejector noise hence me thinking it was possibly a large ejector? The interesting thing about all this is me commenting on it (because it was there to notice in the first place) and Bryan's interest in doing something about it if it's not considered 'absolutely right'. To me ears there seems to be too noticeable an ejector noise - others might not feel the same? - and is it worth altering what is otherwise an absolutely superb piece of steam? Perhaps Bryan could find some suitable loose coupled freight working tracks to do some comparisons as he clearly is aiming for topnotch sound quality - or am I just being too fussy? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted January 6, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2011 thanks for the reply station master, i must admit personally i've not got the foggiest what an ejector is or what it sound like, i really know nothing about steam locos!! i know bryan is a perfectionist so wants the sound to be near as damn perfect, its not too much of a problem for him to remove or add sounds to projects. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rorz101uk Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 thanks for the reply station master, i must admit personally i've not got the foggiest what an ejector is or what it sound like, i really know nothing about steam locos!! i know bryan is a perfectionist so wants the sound to be near as damn perfect, its not too much of a problem for him to remove or add sounds to projects. On Most great western engines they do not have steam brake they only have Vaccum brakes, to create a "Brake" the Large ejetor is operated and draws air out of the system, over time the this needs recharging to bring it back to 25"hg, when shunting As a fireman i have fired a manor and a 4141, when the loco has clouped up to the train the driver create a brake, thats the large ejector, when the loco is on the move at a 15mph the large ejector is shut off and the mechancal Vacuum pump takes over, before the train comes into the station the large ejector is operated and keeps the 25"hg in the brake system. i thinking thats right if not, please correct me! as for the locomotives i will find out! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 6, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2011 thanks for the reply station master, i must admit personally i've not got the foggiest what an ejector is or what it sound like, i really know nothing about steam locos!! i know bryan is a perfectionist so wants the sound to be near as damn perfect, its not too much of a problem for him to remove or add sounds to projects. I was going to talk about the vacuum brake on diesels until I realised you probably don't know those either nowadays Anyway you've had a fairly good explanation already although what you need to know is that a common method of stopping a vacuum brake train in many (most?) parts of Britain was to come to a stand on a rising brake - in other words the brake was being blown back off as the train came to a stand, this ensured a much smoother stop than coming to a stand with the brakes hard on and you saved time as the brakes would be releasing and thus completely off, hopefully, by the time you were ready to move. To avoid any runaway while stationary you just put on the straight air brake on the loco (unless you were on a steep gradient of course). Thus as a train stopped the ejector would be put on to release the brakes and recreate the vacuum in the train pipe, in fact really skilled enginemen on the Western would use the small ejector to control the brake application once the initial application had been made with the brake valve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rorz101uk Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I was going to talk about the vacuum brake on diesels until I realised you probably don't know those either nowadays Anyway you've had a fairly good explanation already although what you need to know is that a common method of stopping a vacuum brake train in many (most?) parts of Britain was to come to a stand on a rising brake - in other words the brake was being blown back off as the train came to a stand, this ensured a much smoother stop than coming to a stand with the brakes hard on and you saved time as the brakes would be releasing and thus completely off, hopefully, by the time you were ready to move. To avoid any runaway while stationary you just put on the straight air brake on the loco (unless you were on a steep gradient of course). Thus as a train stopped the ejector would be put on to release the brakes and recreate the vacuum in the train pipe, in fact really skilled enginemen on the Western would use the small ejector to control the brake application once the initial application had been made with the brake valve. Same method on steam engine, by the way, the method i have stated is only on GWR loco with vucuum brakes, the sound i remember is on western locos is like on 3717 or 3440 which ever it running at the mo, is pressing either 4 or 5, most Westerns have that too, i think its when the driver open the regulator and there like a rush of air or steam can't remember? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted January 7, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2011 reply from bryan: I recorded 3803 partly from the footplate and the remainder from the first coach of a 5 coach train going up the Dart Valley from Totnes. I will have a good listen to my recordings tonight and will modify the 28/38xx project file as neccessary. I also recorded the Panier 5786 on the same day so now I have a bit more time to spare I may do an all new pannier shortly. Thanks for the constructive and positive comments and replies, makes the effort worthwhile. Regards Bryan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rorz101uk Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 My other post about the air or steam, what it is when the regulator is open there is ant vacuum valve( i think)and it make squees noise please put that in the sound loco? Can you post another film with the nee sound on? If you need anyhelp with steam loco sound pls feel free to pm me, I don't no everything but I Sure I can find out? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rorz101uk Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 My other post about the air or steam, what it is when the regulator is open there is ant vacuum valve( i think)and it make squees noise please put that in the sound loco? Can you post another film with the nee sound on? If you need anyhelp with steam loco sound pls feel free to pm me, I don't no everything but I Sure I can find out? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted January 9, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2011 Here are some shots of the tender fit. the only mod to the tender is the cutout in the tender top to allow the decoder to sit nicely above the speaker and which is then hidden by the coal fillet when replaced, I did it with a dremel but could be done equally well by carefully drilling a number of holes to the same line an then removing the obsolete plastic and then trim with a file or modellers knife, the coal fillet could equally be replaced by a piece of card and real coal added to create a much better effect, the tender cavity produces a reasonable sound acoustic even though there is no actual speaker chamber, nor is there the room for one in the Hornby design. the sound then projects down through the slots in the chassis where the tops of the wheels pass through, so there is no need for any further modification. Hope this photo guide helps anyone who wants to fit their own model, its not hard and the coal fillet covers up any rough looking cutouts, mine usually are but I tidied mine up for the pics!!. speaker position position in tender tender body cutout tender top back on finished article 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted January 10, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2011 bryan is after a bit of advice from those in the know regards a sound he recorded: I have attached a short low sample rate clip from my recording of 3803, in the middle part of the clip which I have cut out to shorten it was the driver saying he was releasing the brake, I was stood behind him at the time, the whole clip was 10 seconds just for info, perhaps the experienced steam lads can tell me exactly what the sound is? I call it Blowing off, not being rude but just a little ignorant of all the various sounds a kettle makes, is it an ejector as I am intrigued. I have already reworked the sound into a MKII 28/38xx in the interests of authenticity. Personally I prefer the original sound. Comments,criticisms, advice and information always welcome. Bryan 38xx releasing the brake .WAV Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 10, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2011 bryan is after a bit of advice from those in the know regards a sound he recorded: I have attached a short low sample rate clip from my recording of 3803, in the middle part of the clip which I have cut out to shorten it was the driver saying he was releasing the brake, I was stood behind him at the time, the whole clip was 10 seconds just for info, perhaps the experienced steam lads can tell me exactly what the sound is? I call it Blowing off, not being rude but just a little ignorant of all the various sounds a kettle makes, is it an ejector as I am intrigued. I have already reworked the sound into a MKII 28/38xx in the interests of authenticity. Personally I prefer the original sound. Comments,criticisms, advice and information always welcome. Bryan 38xx releasing the brake .WAV Difficult to tell in isolation Jim but I think the Driver could have meant he was blowing-off the brake with the ejector (rather like putting a train air brake into 'Boost') and it does sound a bit like that. I would usually take the term to mean that unless it is used in respect of destroying the vacuum, and it didn't sound like that. and yes, I prefer the original too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rorz101uk Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 thats the driver operating the large ejector, any chance of having the other sound to compare the two? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted January 10, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2011 bryans reply: Now I am confused. I thought from the thread that the 28xx and 38xx didnt have ejectors, so if they didnt what was I recording? I appear to have split the jury so I will stop there and stick with the original as I like the sound, and it fits in with the way I heard it, I am so glad I have an electric kettle here. it far easier to operate, and it doesnt even have a whistle!!. Thanks for the replies, as the saying goes, "every little helps". and a Happy New Year to all on RMWeb. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rorz101uk Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 bryans reply: Now I am confused. I thought from the thread that the 28xx and 38xx didnt have ejectors, so if they didnt what was I recording? I appear to have split the jury so I will stop there and stick with the original as I like the sound, and it fits in with the way I heard it, I am so glad I have an electric kettle here. it far easier to operate, and it doesnt even have a whistle!!. Thanks for the replies, as the saying goes, "every little helps". and a Happy New Year to all on RMWeb. i have been trying to find a video of me in my younger day as a cleanner, i was firing a Large Prairie, you will be able to watch what im doing aswell as the driver and the noises that makes in the cab, the Blackhead of the firebox is the same as a 38xx Class locomotive, yep 38xx and 28xx have Large ejectors to produce a vucuum,the GWR was very stand in the way of the backhead, i just can't seen to find this CD or Video Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 hi, all GWR locos had an ejector, even the pannier tanks ( somebody will now prove me wrong!!!, probably some TVR relic that didnt!!) but if it was operating a passenger train then it would have to use it to get the brakes off before it could move. if it was on an unfitted frieght, as most of these were then the ejector wouldnt be used and hence not normally heard. i think this is the sound most desirable by the modeller wishing to re-create the days of steam. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelling Martin Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Hi all hope you could help me with this one. The sound seems rather quiet on my Howes chipped 28xx despite CV 63 being 128 which might mean the problem may lie with the speaker positioning. As you can see by the below picture what should i do to improve it? I'm not sure whether to put the weight back in because i don't want to short circuit the decoder or add more blu-tac? Any help would be much appreciated, Gary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tetsudofan Posted January 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2015 .....might it need some more blue tack around the edge of the speaker to make a sound box to seal in the sound? Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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