Guest Phil Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Had a shufty through a colleague's copy and decided after just five minutes that it will not be part of my literature collection. Why ? Class 56s were an integral part of movement of coal by rail for nigh on 20 years in the West Midlands. The class worked from Stoke, Bescot and Saltley, loading trains from Chatterley Valley, Wolstanton, Trentham, Silverdale, Littleton, Mid Cannock, Essington,Baddesley, Birch Coppice, Daw Mill and Three Spires,to Rugeley, Ironbridge, Didcot, Drakelow and Ratcliffe. Some of the first workings were Barrow Hill-Ironbridge jobs replacing Knottingly class 47/3s - back in the late 1970s. From the very early 1980s they settled down to 32 and 34 wagon sets on the Ironbridge bound services, with 45 wagon sets on the Didcot bound services from Three Spires and Bescot. It is true that many workings were replaced by class 58s but the class 56 still maintained their coal presence. Mr Marsden totally overlooks this period of West Midlands "modern" traction history, and you'd be forgiven for thinking that class 56s never showed their face at Bescot, Saltley or Stoke. From memory the only photographs of class 56 in the West Midlands are ; A freight climbing the Lickey at Vigo A freight passing Lichfield Trent Valley Low Level An example hauling ferryvans through Stoke on Trent Considering the class were designed for hauling coal, there is no pictorial evidence of it in the West Midlands. Sorry Mr Marsden but you can excuse your readers for thinking they were exclusively Eastern Region locos (with some Western Region activity) from the photographic bias I think you display in this edition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 It was still the last issue in my local Smiffs, had a few copies as well. So another trip required then to buy this one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37176 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Ah well. His California book is good, apart from the pricce! Careful on that signal poat, Mr Marsden. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven156 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Had a shufty through a colleague's copy and decided after just five minutes that it will not be part of my literature collection. Why ? Class 56s were an integral part of movement of coal by rail for nigh on 20 years in the West Midlands. The class worked from Stoke, Bescot and Saltley, loading trains from Chatterley Valley, Wolstanton, Trentham, Silverdale, Littleton, Mid Cannock, Essington,Baddesley, Birch Coppice, Daw Mill and Three Spires,to Rugeley, Ironbridge, Didcot, Drakelow and Ratcliffe. Some of the first workings were Barrow Hill-Ironbridge jobs replacing Knottingly class 47/3s - back in the late 1970s. From the very early 1980s they settled down to 32 and 34 wagon sets on the Ironbridge bound services, with 45 wagon sets on the Didcot bound services from Three Spires and Bescot. It is true that many workings were replaced by class 58s but the class 56 still maintained their coal presence. Mr Marsden totally overlooks this period of West Midlands "modern" traction history, and you'd be forgiven for thinking that class 56s never showed their face at Bescot, Saltley or Stoke. From memory the only photographs of class 56 in the West Midlands are ; A freight climbing the Lickey at Vigo A freight passing Lichfield Trent Valley Low Level An example hauling ferryvans through Stoke on Trent Considering the class were designed for hauling coal, there is no pictorial evidence of it in the West Midlands. Sorry Mr Marsden but you can excuse your readers for thinking they were exclusively Eastern Region locos (with some Western Region activity) from the photographic bias I think you display in this edition. Have to agree on that one there on the location of the photos bias. Looking through my copy of it you would think the class 56's that the class never ever worked across the border into Scotland either! Ive been through the magazine a few times and only found two pictures that were taken in Scotland. Page 71 with a Fastline liveried one at Abington, Page 46 with a Transrail in deepest Fife. Open to correction on this. Very dissapointing. Considering for a few years virtually every HAA train from Hunterston to Longannet was class 56 hauled and these trains were almost close to hourly- sometimes during the daytime there was more Class 56's hauled HAA trains running along the line to Hunterston than the passenger service to nearby Largs!! Class 56's were not unknown for popping up on Enterprise services to Aberdeen and Inverness its a bit dissapointing in this publication that Scotland is represented by two token pictures. Good read and fantastic value for money, but the lack of Scottish pictures is a major dissapointment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted January 29, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 29, 2011 Spotted a fair few errors in it just doing a quick three minute browse through over lunch last night, mostly typos. One I would like clarified, in the listings of which locos wore what livery, 56036 is indicated as having had Large Logo from new as it is not listed in the rail blue list. Could have sworn this was built blue and then large logo'ed? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Perkins Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Spotted a fair few errors in it just doing a quick three minute browse through over lunch last night, mostly typos. One I would like clarified, in the listings of which locos wore what livery, 56036 is indicated as having had Large Logo from new as it is not listed in the rail blue list. Could have sworn this was built blue and then large logo'ed? Yes it was, I've been sent photographic evidence. Will inform CJM when he gets back from holiday. Chris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Pannier Tank Posted January 29, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 29, 2011 Spotted a fair few errors in it just doing a quick three minute browse through over lunch last night, mostly typos. One I would like clarified, in the listings of which locos wore what livery, 56036 is indicated as having had Large Logo from new as it is not listed in the rail blue list. Could have sworn this was built blue and then large logo'ed? I believe 56036 was the first Class 56 to carry Large Logo (re-painted) ; wasn't 56084 the first new build 56 in Large Logo? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 I believe 56036 was the first Class 56 to carry Large Logo (re-painted) ; wasn't 56084 the first new build 56 in Large Logo? Correct on both counts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 There's an interesting little anecdote about 56 036 in Anthony Gregory's book 'Life On The Leicester Line', where he describes the time he and his driver decided to give it a wash and brush up by hand one day, shortly after it had been painted in large logo.... result, lots of streaky paintwork leaving it needing another visit to the paintshop! Nidge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Yeah, y'see *this* is why I dont wash my car Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Not quite the West Midlands, but here's one on a Didcot-Barrow Hill empty MGR http://derby.fotopic.net/p48672712.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Nevard Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Magazine editors can only work with material that's been submitted. It's as simple as that. Sadly they have no way of knowing what's in unknown private collections unless owners come forward. Requests for material for upcoming issues is posted well in advance of publication dates below, so it's not for want of trying on behalf of the editorial team. http://www.modern-lo...rthcomming.html If you think that you might be position to address the balance with future issue - do get in touch via the above website suggesting possible sources of material - Colin & Chris don't bite. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Magazine editors can only work with material that's been submitted. It's as simple as that. TBH I'm not sure that it is that simple, Chris. This publication might have soft covers but IMO it isnt a 'magazine' as such, it presumably sets out to be some sort of authoritative or definitive record of each class. Do the editors not have access to the Ian Allan library? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Let me start by saying that overall MLI is an excellent magazine and (as I've said before) represents great value when compared to its Continental counterparts (Eisenbahn Journal/Eisenbahn Kurier/Le Train specials). For me the latest issue is a little stretched in places - for example I'm not sure why six pages are devoted to just three locos in the Hanson and RVEL pool. This may be contentious, but there seem to be perhaps too many pictures chosen for their aesthetic or scenic merit rather than showing the locomotives specifically (which are the subject of the magazine, after all) and yes, you can have too many photographs of the Dawlish sea wall. Another thing I've noticed is that, for a number of recent issues and different branches of Smiffs, many of the copies are creased and/or have black splodges on their covers. Oh and yes, the poorf reder neads new specatackles. While this edition appears to be struggling for content, I note that shunter classes 01-07 will be covered by a single issue, which means their treatment won't be as "in depth" as I'd like it. Certainly when one considers not just the history of the locomotives that made it through to TOPS classification, but their forebears, sisters built for industrial service (as well as those sold out of BR ownership), those that went abroad and of course the preservation era, surely there's more than enough material for two issues? Minor quibbles apart (and offered in the spirit of constructive criticism), CJM is to be congratulated on a thorough job, yet again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Interesting this as I had a quick flick through and was disappointed at how few pictures there were of them on Mendip quarry traffic. I guess somebody somewhere was happy with it! Must say though that normally I am a fan and find these very useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliepetty Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Interesting this as I had a quick flick through and was disappointed at how few pictures there were of them on Mendip quarry traffic. I guess somebody somewhere was happy with it! Must say though that normally I am a fan and find these very useful. FULL range of all Modern Locomtive Illustrated at Stafford this weekend. Charlie P. DC Kits-DE Videos Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Perkins Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Do the editors not have access to the Ian Allan library? Hi Pennine, I presume that you have never been to the Ian Allan library and like me until I went for the first time thought it was like your local lending library stuffed full of photographs and slides instead of books. Sadly it is but a few filing cabinets in a very dusty room above the print shop and consists of mostly black & white prints of steam. My first visit was to obtain some colour shots of Class 50's at work between Preston and Glasgow for the article in our first annual. Sadly there was not one and barely a dozen black & white prints mostly from the same photographer some of which I was forced to use. Most subjects we are covering are pre-digital even the early days of 66's & 67's are pre-digital so only slides and negatives exist. This is where the crunch comes, more and more photographers are refusing to send their valuable slides or negatives through the postal system due to loss and damage. Some will offer a home scanning service which will vary in quality depending on the scanner and may not to be to standard required. So we are very reliant on what people are prepared to send us and it is quite demoralising to see posts starting of by saying I'm not buying this issue because it doesn't have a picture of abc passing xyx for somebody a couple of posts later to declare I have one and stick a link up to it. As Chris Nevard says the details of what we are after and when its required by are on the website. Chris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Well Chris, the old adage about not being able to please all the people all of the time... Just wondering, has the magazine developed a "house style" (if only in the minds of the contributors) that attracts submissions of scenic shots and special workings rather than the common and ordinary (which perhaps every contributor thinks has been covered by every other contributor)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Must admit I enjoyed the magazine, though agree with one of the posts above that most in the shop where I purchased it were creased/had marks on the rear cover. Can't believe it's almost exactly 30 years ago since I took this snap: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Hi Pennine, I presume that you have never been to the Ian Allan library and like me until I went for the first time thought it was like your local lending library stuffed full of photographs and slides instead of books. Sadly it is but a few filing cabinets in a very dusty room above the print shop and consists of mostly black & white prints of steam. Thanks for the explanation Chris, that's fair comment as I did expect it to be quite comprehensive . As Chris Nevard says the details of what we are after and when its required by are on the website. They are, but with respect do you not perhaps think it unrealistic to expect people to come to you? To draw a parallel with modelling mags, I think most editors and their staff are more proactive, always on the lookout for layouts and other contributions rather than just relying on what drops on the doormat. There are a lot of websites out there now with quality D&E material (many of them are highlighted in threads here by contributors to this forum), but the chaps setting them up might never have heard of MLI. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Perkins Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 "Another thing I've noticed is that, for a number of recent issues and different branches of Smiffs, many of the copies are creased and/or have black splodges on their covers." Obviously the creased copies are nothing to do with us and down to the distributor. The black marks have started appearing over the last couple of issues, they are in fact just little bits of rubber from the laminating rollers and can be rubbed off with no ill effects. Chris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Perkins Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Thanks for the explanation Chris, that's fair comment as I did expect it to be quite comprehensive They are, but with respect do you not perhaps think it unrealistic to expect people to come to you? To draw a parallel with modelling mags, I think most editors and their staff are more proactive, always on the lookout for layouts and other contributions rather than just relying on what drops on the doormat. There are a lot of websites out there now with quality D&E material (many of them are highlighted in threads here by contributors to this forum), but the chaps setting them up might never have heard of MLI. It is surprising how much stuff is sent to us without asking for it, sometimes far to much of not the right thing, part of my role is then to search for pictures that we need to fill any gaps, sometimes a thankless task. So we are proactive but there are probably less layouts out there worth publishing than there photographs of railway locomotives. The period after the end of steam being the hardest as most photographers didn't photograph the hated diesel. So we try and do the best we can. Chris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
6Y99 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Hi all, Having looked through this current Issue of Modern Locomotives Illustrated and comparing it to issue 175 the on the class 58s I feel this Issue is a bit of a let down and could have been a lot better really looking through the current Issue you would only think that the class has worked in the: Aire Valley The Durham Coast route Tees side on selected Steel Workings The Immingham area South Wales The issue hardly covers the diagrams the loco's had off Toton on the East Midland coal traffic that took the loco's as far a field as Northfleet and Ridham and Didcot, The loco's that worked off Leicester on the Stone traffic from the Quarry's in that area, The issue only has one photo that I could see of a loco on Westbury aggregate working. The Issue has no mention of the heavy modifications done to 56102 (it dose mention the mine mods done to other load haul 56's) but 56102 was unique as it was reg eared and had its engine down rated slightly to 2,400hp like 56068 and 56069 did in trainload coal day's when they was part of the Aire Valley coal pool. Also the two remote control fitted 56's is only just touched about 56073/074 fitted remote control equipment for when the wiggly wire system was being tried out by the RTC and C.E.G.B. at Eggborough Power Station. I am surprised that only pictures you have of 56's on the Immingham - Scunthorpe coal circuit are in the EWS era as the class took over the 10 trains a day that ran from 1989 and there are many pictures of the loco's on these trains on peoples fotopic sites, Again hardley any coverage of the class in the North East there are one or two pics of them at Seaham and Hartlepool but non on the B&T Network P.J. Robinson has plenty of photo's of these locomotives on such mundane workings. Also the Enterprise workings that Transrail set up and EWS Developed has been touched on but there was loads of trip and trunk workings that 56's as the diagrammed traction all over the UK not just in Wales and on the WCML, Engineers traffic there is only 3 photographs of 56s working these trains trains at most weekends you could find a lot of the class engaged on engineers duties all over the uk. All in all the Photographic content of the publication is quality the captions on the whole are well put together but there are mistakes with those not everyone but they could have been better it is just a shame that a bit more effort was not put in after all there is a lot of material out there that can be used as research material the 56 fade away, Sector 56 DVD's and the Grids Book that was published 18 months ago would have assisted no end. But overall a good photographic content that has been published to a high standard that should be congratulated, I feel a little let down as I have been looking froward tot his issue as I do like the class along with other Type 5 Traction. Cheers, 6Y99 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 it is quite demoralising to see posts starting of by saying I'm not buying this issue because it doesn't have a picture of abc passing xyx for somebody a couple of posts later to declare I have one and stick a link up to it. As Chris Nevard says the details of what we are after and when its required by are on the website. They are, but with respect do you not perhaps think it unrealistic to expect people to come to you? To draw a parallel with modelling mags, I think most editors and their staff are more proactive, always on the lookout for layouts and other contributions rather than just relying on what drops on the doormat. There are a lot of websites out there now with quality D&E material (many of them are highlighted in threads here by contributors to this forum), but the chaps setting them up might never have heard of MLI. I'm sorry Chris but I don't agree with you. MLI is setting out to provide the definitive reference on class 56s, but it has been quite selective - in fact moreso than I had realised, judging from subsequent posts. Then you try to make out that it is the potential readers fault that MLI hasn't been able to deliver as well we expect. That simply will not do Chris. I am sure that if MLI scoured enough fotopic sites and asked on forums there would be at least an adequate response-sufficient to produce a comprehensive photo history . I know of several local photographers who would be able to have balanced it a little for the West Midlands. I am sure similar situations exist for other parts of the UK. Perhaps you mightn't have been so demoralised if a little homework in preparation had been done. I do look forward to future editions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted February 3, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 3, 2011 I am sure that if MLI scoured enough fotopic sites and asked on forums there would be at least an adequate response-sufficient to produce a comprehensive photo history . Indeed, I have lots of pictures of 56s, including some unusual workings around Merseyrail, but I'm afraid that the same "argument" applies here (I've made similar comments about other mags) I don't hawk my stuff around, if people ask I will assist but I've long ago given up speculative contact with editors, too many let downs which involved too much of my time wasted - and I'm sure I am not unique. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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