RMweb Premium Barry O Posted March 29, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 29, 2011 "actually think anyone who hasn't read his weathering book should not be allowed to call themselves a modeller! " mmm not sure about that. Before Mr Welch there was a guy called Paul Fletcher who used most of the techniques Mr W has in his book. I have looked at his book but also spend time talking to Military Modellers, artists ( who do know a bit about colours and hues) as well as picking up images and ideas from photographs. Now I think whether you use dyes, paint or ink in my case its personal preferences. Me I prefer inks ( and you can buy an awful lot of different colour ink ) I can use them neat, watered down, with abrush or an airbrush onbuikldings locos - most everything. When I am weathering a loco which someone has paid a lot of money to be painted and lined I feel that the ink method means if they don't like it I don't have to get someone to repaint it - so for me - inks and powders are my weathering mediums. Each to his own and well done BlackRat. By the way have you tried cleaning the windscreens on teh Hymek with a cotton wool bud before it all dries - lt will look like the wipers were - for once - oeprational... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 By the way have you tried cleaning the windscreens on teh Hymek with a cotton wool bud before it all dries - lt will look like the wipers were - for once - oeprational... Unfortunately, .......................................I forgot! I have used small 'arcs' of masking tape to replicate the 'swept' area but will give the buds a go. A good idea! I must admit to, to having forgotten about Paul F. A truly superb modeller. Spent many a happy moment nattering with him and Welchy in the Blue Peter. They were both members of the Tamar Valley Group and produced some stunners. Hemlock Byte (I think) being one and another which ended up in the display behond Ace Models at Launceston. I was 'finescaling' at the time, slowly plodding through a 4mm model of Lostwithiel in my garage which due to the size was doomed to fail as a one man project tho I still have a dozen or so scratch built points somewhere. Martin even built a couple during quiet times in the shop. The best thing about the pair of them, despite being some of the countries most talented modellers (imho) they were as down to earth as could be, great fun to be with and as helpful with advice as its possible to be. One of the funniest recollections was over the merits and comparisons of vasectomies!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am long overdue a visit to Martin so will see what he thinks of the inks. I havent really seen much of Paul since he was taken ill, and I hope he is well and as good as he can be. Thanks for the tip re the buds. ps Maskol when it dries, can give that lovely 'purple tinge to diese'l windscreens! No doubt others have discovered this to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parthia27 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 I've read this thread with interest. The results you have achieved with these inks is excellent, but I would probably say that you would achieve excellent results no matter what weathering medium you use, great stuff. For those who are starting out weathering please be careful, it is more than possible to make a pig's ear when weathering with dyes or any other medium if you do not know what you are doing, especially using aerosols. Weathering is a matter of practice and finding the methods that work best for each individual. As well as the excellent work shown by Black Rat in this thread, look at the stunning work of James, Pugsley and others on this and other forums who produce masterful representations of models which only come as a result of practice and patient application of the skills they have learnt. TBH when I saw the Model Mates Weathering Dye demonstration at the last Warley exhibition I was far from impressed, most of the wagons on their stand looked awful and overpowering as though they had been attacked by a bucket of mud and oil. The product was being pitched as an instant weathering solution. IMHO it is better to use a set of techniques that provide a consistent result - in my case I now almost exclusively use a combination of acrylics, pigments and gauche applied via airbrush or other means as is deemed appropriate. For me a weathered model takes days to get it to a stage where it starts to look real, and I always work from photographs of my chosen prototype and by observing the real thing. I try to detail my locos and stock to a high standard, which for me takes time, as does the final act of weathering. Some of the 'heavy' weathering that I have seen over the last few years can spoil a loco, wagon or modeled item. There seems to be a need for some people to achieve a quick fix for everything they do. Weathering like all modelling should not be a quick fix, it should be a pleasure that is savoured and enjoyed. But that is my opinion............ Cheers Chris M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 Good advice Chris. The only thing I can add (re the Modelmaster dyes) is its more about what you TAKE OFF, as opposed to what you put on. The 'reverse dry brushing' technique works for me. I must admit to not spraying it and leaving it. Neither would I do this with sprayed enamels, acrylics or cellulose (Iuse them all). Again, its not whats on the model but whats taken off. Good luck if you do have a go folks, try on an old model or even a sheet of painted card/plasticard or whatever. As an aside, I think the effects achieved by Alan Downes and Chris Nevard using tins of red/grey/black primer are quite superb. Must have a go myself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Having been namechecked earlier in the thread, I'd like to add my 2p worth. Having specifically prepared the 6WTS weathering thread to give people confidence in using - specifically - paint techniques, I can see where James is coming from, but I can also see a lot of value in the posts by Neil and Chris. The top and bottom of it is that there are no 'wonder' materials or techniques, whatever you use will stand or fall on your own abilities and perseverance. It doesnt need emphasising by me but Neil obviously knows what he's doing, and he does make the point that he sees these dyes as only part of the process. This is important, because I do pretty much disapprove of these sorts of products being marketed as 'instant' solutions. The danger in that IMHO is that it lowers expectations of what a good weathering job should look like - it's been said often enough that folk don't look at the real thing, they look at other models and if the bulk of what they see is the average RTR 'pass with an earth-filled airbrush' or (worse yet) the stuff touted on ebay by the likes of Hardjeff and his ilk, then it's not surprising they're impressed with the sort of demo pieces that Chris mentions. As an aside to this I'm also very sceptical of claims made for materials that just 'wash off' - in my experience, even a powder (another method often favoured by the diffident newbie) will leave a residue such that you can't say the model will retain its original unblemished finish. It's understandable that someone wouldnt want to risk ruining an expensive loco with paint, so the obvious answer is - don't. Start on something expendable and build up your confidence on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 No James you can't wash "Dry" brushed paint off with water whereas with ink and ( as stated above dyes) you can. The difference is - if you don't like it you don't repaint it - just wash it off. No, you just use thinners instead. The difference is with thinned enamels and thinners you have about 24 hours to do the cleaning. Its what I have been doing for years so I agree with James. Having said that there's probably as many variations on weathering as there are modellers so if this method works for you then great Cheers Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I might try some of this Rattie, I haven't got time to make every wagon look like the mona lisa ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Grafarman Posted April 28, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 28, 2011 If I could add my two-penn'orth - I'm very new to all this, and I've only just started weathering my n gauge stock, starting with some wagons. I'm using this spray dye along with Tamiya weathering compound and some old acrylics I had left over from a painting set. I find the sprays easy to use and re-use, but I have had a plastic-stain effect after several attempts on one of the wagons which didn't look so good - basically using too much oily brown I turned a grey wagon yellow... I think as an overall effect they work well (at least in the hands of the gifted weatherers on this forum ) but definitely best in conjunction with other mediums... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted May 13, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 13, 2011 Sorry for taking so long to get back on this - Jim S-W - thinners doesn't take all of the colour off but it has a habit of taking off the bits you don't want - like very expensive lining! Honest guv, I have been using some Kirk O gauge coach bits for people to have a go at weathering for a number of years and they scrub up well with some CIF and a toothbrush... And just to show that the dye/ink works on other things other than locos and stock - I attach a bit of an overhead railway which is now "toned down" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted May 28, 2011 Author Share Posted May 28, 2011 For track, try the oily brown and black, careful with the black tho, but its good for areas where diesel/steam loco's stand. Bit of dry brushing helps then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I know this topic is a bit ancient, but... Has anyone tried using the Modelmates Weathering Liquids, which come in small bottles, and can be watered down to create a wash... which can be 'removed as required' (with a damp cotton bud etc) after it has dried? Nevertheless, it's also possible to apply additional washes and for these to be similarly treated. Appears to be an improved way of working with this medium compared to the 'unthinnable' cans... and something worth investigating... but not as a 'stand alone instant fix! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted January 31, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2012 I've used the spray and bottles. As stated by others it takes a bit of practice. I've used oily brown in both versions but the other colours I've only used as bottles as I tend to want to do smalller areas at a time. I have a thread on here regarding weathered LT panniers: http://www.rmweb.co....ed-lt-panniers/ The first loco L92 was done with spray, the second L99 was done neat straight from the bottle. Before I tackled the full job I did practice on this old loco body: I don't have an airbrush. Everything is hand painted with acrylics, powders and Modelmates dyes. Here's an N2 I did much the same way but with a lot less of the oily brown: The grey ink colour seems to come into its own a bit more if you have eg a black tanks with lots of rivets: (Yes I know the couplings need something better, and the cabside plates on the 61xx need to be changed to red) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tractionman Posted February 1, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2012 I know this topic is a bit ancient, but... Has anyone tried using the Modelmates Weathering Liquids, which come in small bottles, and can be watered down to create a wash... which can be 'removed as required' (with a damp cotton bud etc) after it has dried? Nevertheless, it's also possible to apply additional washes and for these to be similarly treated. Appears to be an improved way of working with this medium compared to the 'unthinnable' cans... and something worth investigating... but not as a 'stand alone instant fix! Yes, I got some Modelmates dyes for Christmas and had some fun applying them to a loco and some stock - see: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/49655-making-a-start-with-weathering-dyes-and-acrylics/ I found them easy to use, and was pleased with my (novice) results! cheers, Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Thanks so much for sharing your experiences guys, and for the links. Seems they DO have potential! (the bottled dyes, that is) particularly the mud brown. I had in mind maybe using them on top of enamels in a diluted form, either ahead of or instead of powders.... or as a build up of thin washes prior to the other two. Will definitely be doing a bit of experimentation! Might well be a useful addition to a copydex/water mix when laying/sticking ballast... or as an 'after-wash' once it's dried? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 I have been further developing my own use of these dyes, if anyone is interested I will post a couple of new pics up, mainly green(ish) diesels! Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I've been doing "reverse dry brushing" for years with Water Colours, I actually learned the technique when painting landscapes on watercolour paper! I like the idea of dyes and welcome new techniques and products - one of the best things I learned on this site was the use of water colour pencils for weathering (the advantage was many colours and the blending of them when taking them back off). Sounds counterintuitive, doesn't it? I wish I could remember the thread, I believe the OP was Canadian and he had put together a video of the technique... Best, Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted June 19, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 19, 2012 ps Maskol when it dries, can give that lovely 'purple tinge to diesel windscreens! Out of interest, does anyone know whether leaving Maskol in place on glazing for a long time (talking over a year, here) has any detrimental effect on the glazing material? I have been further developing my own use of these dyes, if anyone is interested I will post a couple of new pics up, mainly green(ish) diesels! Neil Yes please, Neil.... (in your own time, then...! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 Out of interest, does anyone know whether leaving Maskol in place on glazing for a long time (talking over a year, here) has any detrimental effect on the glazing material? It doesn't seem to ..............................but its a b*gger to get off! I have used it to try and simulate the maroonish glazing (sun filter?) that some diesels seemed to have had, 47's in particular. Choo choo pics to follow............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 Tim, just took these, hope they show the effect, if not will bring one to SWAG! Baby D, Hymek and a Silver Fox baby Warship. This Silver Fox resin model (on a Bachy class 20 chassis) is relgated to secondary duties with the arrival of the new Dapol models. I never detailed it as far as I could have really, and for a really impressive idea of what you can do, have a look at our very own member... Bubbles2, model of the above. Again combo of the Model Mates spray dyes, airbrush, dry brush etc. I have been usuing 'makeup' brushes, the big 'uns (that my daughter seems to have an alarming amount of!). They give a very soft, subtle effect. The 'oily brow' gives a very nice oily sheen, bit tricky to pick up in the pics, but that's down to the cameraman I'm afraid! I'm happy anyway ps yes b4 anyone comments, the fuel tanks on the 22 are wrong, its still on the Bachy 20 chassis and I havent (as yet) got round to changing them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 And a couple showing the trusty steeds rumbling over (a rather out of scale) bridge! Still the sun is shining and I haven't another 'diorama' or photo set............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Tim, just took these, hope they show the effect, if not will bring one to SWAG! Baby D, Hymek and a Silver Fox baby Warship. This Silver Fox resin model (on a Bachy class 20 chassis) is relgated to secondary duties with the arrival of the new Dapol models. I never detailed it as far as I could have really, and for a really impressive idea of what you can do, have a look at our very own member... Bubbles2, model of the above. Again combo of the Model Mates spray dyes, airbrush, dry brush etc. I have been usuing 'makeup' brushes, the big 'uns (that my daughter seems to have an alarming amount of!). They give a very soft, subtle effect. The 'oily brow' gives a very nice oily sheen, bit tricky to pick up in the pics, but that's down to the cameraman I'm afraid! I'm happy anyway ps yes b4 anyone comments, the fuel tanks on the 22 are wrong, its still on the Bachy 20 chassis and I havent (as yet) got round to changing them! I can see why you're happy with the results! Any chance of a more detailed explanation of how you went about it... kind of start to finish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 Hi Alan, theres a bit in this months Model Rail if you are interested. I might do a follow up perhaps using some of the new products. But if you look back over the thread you will get the idea............ You cant go wrong and if you do, clean it off and try again. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Thanks Neil. I'll surely be popping into Smiths to take a peek at the MR article! I suppose what I really wanted to find out was when, and how often, do you make use of an airbrush? It's just that I'm trying to avoid buying one, and all the essential kit that goes with it. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 Alan, no real easy answer as it all depends (how long is that piece of string?). I tend (just tend) to use it when I have a 'batch' of things to do, then can sit there for an hour or so using the airbrush. Having said that, more recently, and with acrylics, its just as quick to use the airbrush as anything else. You can pick up an airbrush/compressor combo off the net now for less than £100 and even if you buy a separate good brush (the Iwata which start at £50). As a result, I use mine far more often now, as with a good compressor its just so quick and easy. Its been used twice this week, and may yet come out again later! Dont avoid one, get it, ..................you'll never know how you managed without one! Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Cheers Neil. Funny how one post can change your outlook... and better I get one sooner rather than later, and rig up a 'workstation' in the shed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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