Eastwood Town - A tribute to Gordon's modelling.

[gordon s]

A distinct possibility.  I need to get the top surface on this afternoon and then lay the plan out and check the position of the main station building and associated platform buildings.  The position of these is controlled by the overbridge.

 

I'm also toying with the idea of a road underbridge at one end or the other with a ramp up to the station car park.  A lot depends on the space etc as I wouldn't want an unrealistic gradient up to the station building.

 

The other problem would be the position of the Tortoise motors as they hang down below the board surface by 90mm, so any underbridge etc would need to be carefully placed to fit between the motors.  I'm sure it will be possible.  I particularly like road underbridges at stations as they always remind me of the early version of Borchester.  There was a beautiful B & W pic in MRJ some years ago of a low level station entrance which was typical of London suburban stations.  That pic will always stay with me and even though this will a different set up, that format has always attracted me.

[gordon s]

Pushed on with the main station board and now have the track bed laid.  A few years back I bought on one of these and it has proven to be a great investment of £100.  Perfect for slitting down Plasticard and stone sheeting, I needed a specific non standard width of cork roll to get the right width (or so I thought) of trackbed to butt up to the platform edge.  Within seconds this piece of German Engineering had cut many feet of cork to 19mm width, accurately and without fuss.

 

Brilliant piece of kit...

 

Edit:  Just seen one on Amazon for £85…Bargain!

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000LNC7SY/ref=s9_simh_co_p60_d6_i1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=left-1&pf_rd_r=10C3DFTJ94HSKR0NJGC9&pf_rd_t=3201&pf_rd_p=518516127&pf_rd_i=typ01

 

 

You may well ask what is the white strip down the edge of the cork..:-)

 

For various reasons I made a cock up in my calculations and had to add 3mm each side to the trackbed.  Managed to find some balsa sheet of the right thickness and once again, a quick slice through with the Proxxon and I had 3mm square balsa section.  This machine is certainly worth looking at and has proven invaluable over the last few days.

 

That takes me to the station building and surrounding roadside.  The platform and base for the building need to be at the same height with the roadway slightly lower.  It might just be a kerb height of a couple of mm, but could be steps down to lower level roadway.  The jury's out right now, but all options are being considered.  I suspect I will slit down some 6mm mdf to form the platform structure and then use brass rod/tube to create some fixing/location pins for the platform to plug into the baseboard.  This will enable it to be removed for the addition of stone/brick facing and surface texture.

 

 

Now a quick question about platform height.  I see from various tables that the minimum height is 12mm or 3' above the rail head.  I've set this up with a Bachmann Mk1, but it looks a little low to me. I don't regularly travel by train, so don't recall stepping onto the step before getting into the carriage.  I realise it has to be lower than the step, but is there a maximum height for platforms?

 

Edited November 28, 2014 by gordon s

[emt_911]

Morning Gordon

 

From the information I have, 3 feet from railhead to top of platform, as you say is a minimum but doesn't give a maximum height.

 

I've attached a Civil Engineering Scale Railway Dimensions document to the post for reference.

civil_eng Scale Railway dimensions.pdf

[Grimleygrid]

Hi Gordon, just catching up on Eastwood Town and it is all change! Nice to see progress is still being made albeit with a new plan.
Lovely wood work. Wow, the station is very impressive, I am looking forward to seeing more progress.

[skipepsi]

Just pack it up literally untill it looks right to you is the answer, even out in the sticks I don't remember climbing into trains as a child.

[The Stationmaster]

As things stood officially in 1950 -

'The height of platforms above rail level should as a rule be 3 feet but in no case less than 2 feet 9 inches or more than 3 feet at permanent stations, without special approval'

 

N.B. Below 3ft 4 inches above rail level the width of vehicles should not exceed 9 feet - which effectively meant that vehicle width only exceeded 9 feet 4 inches above platform level.  

 

So assuming this version of Eastwood Town will be 'permanent' (I hope) the figure is 3ft maximum.  But as Mick has said there is a lot of sense in making it look right rather than slavish adherence to the numbers - but watch clearances if you do raise the platform level (obviously, sorry).

 

The 1993 figure for height was 915mm +0mm -25mm - which according to my tape measure is as near 3ft as makes no difference.

 

All measurements - while teaching granny how to suck eggs - are the distance from the top of the running rail.  Hope this helps a bit.

[gordon s]

Thanks Mike.  The fountain of all knowledge as always.  The problem I have is that 12mm above the rail head as shown in this pic, just looks too low.  I will probably raise it another mm to reduce that gap.  I know I accept compromises in dozens of other areas, but this one just caught my attention and I'd like to do it correctly, but now realise it may well be another compromise to add to the list….

 

Stuck at the moment as my Scheppach bench saw decided it didn't want to play.  Pressing the on switch did nothing but pressing the off activated the brake.  A call to the UK agent for Scheppach identified the problem as probably the contacts have welded together in the solenoid switch.  Found the possible cause and ordered another relay/solenoid.  £50 plus VAT… Ouch!

 

In all fairness it's the first failure in 18 years of ripping down 12mm ply so I can't complain

[martin_wynne]

From the information I have, 3 feet from railhead to top of platform, as you say is a minimum but doesn't give a maximum height.

 

For the BR steam era, 3ft is the actually the maximum.

 

Otherwise there is a risk of conflict with the loading gauge. Some platforms are lower, down to 2ft-9in minimum.

 

Here's the relevant part of the BR 1950 Structure Gauge drawing:

 

 

And the full drawing:

 

 

Martin.

[Portchullin Tatty]

Guys,

 

These standards are the standards applicable at the time for the construction or reconstruction of platforms - ie it was not a standard that applied retrospectively unless the station was undergoing a rebuild. 

 

Platform heights at the time of the construction of many (maybe most) platforms were unregulated because the stations were built in the Victorian era.  They would have been left to the individual companies or their contractors to determine.  They would have then stayed like that until the station was rebuilt and BR did not have a policy (that they pursued with much vigour anyway) to rebuild platforms simply to get them closer to the carriage floor height until the 1980s.  Admittedly out in the countryside, but on the former Highland section there remain a small number of platforms that are only circa 1'10" / 2'0" from the railhead.

 

As you are not modelling a prototype situation, you can effectively make up your own history and set the platform height anywhere upto 3 feet as you wish.  Your other option would be to look up some pictures of Spalding and make a judgment as to what height these might have been.

 

Love the station buildings by the way and enjoying the rebirth of Eastwood Town.

[martin_wynne]

They would have then stayed like that until the station was rebuilt and BR did not have a policy (that they pursued with much vigour anyway) to rebuild platforms simply to get them closer to the carriage floor height until the 1980s.

 

It is not necessary to rebuild the platforms. The track level is adjusted up or down at the next track renewal time. Unless that is not possible -- for example over a subway.

 

Martin.

[The Stationmaster]

As a matter of historical interest the 3 feet maximum applied in new work and reconstruction from 1902 with a minimum height above rail level (in similar circumstances, i.e. new work and reconstruction) of not less than 2ft 6 ins which had applied from at least 1892.

 

And I would agree that many older platforms weren't raised in height until comparatively recent times while many lasted until closure with portable steps to assist joing and alighting passengers.

 

(sorry for divergence OT)

Edited November 21, 2014 by The Stationmaster

[islandbridgejct]

If I could throw in my tuppence, if it looks wrong, maybe the carriage is riding too high on its bogies.

[coachmann]

Re platforms, I simply gauged its height off things like buffers etc after looking at photos. But seeing as we run models with far too much sideplay on non prototypical curves, it is also best to take such matters into account if one doesn't want to lose front loco steps and bogie footboards.

 

Some platform sank due to subsidence and mining and no one seemed to bother in steam days. Greenfields' Up platform, on the outside of a curve, ended up particularly low due to the increase in track superelevation in Diesel days. I think there was a purge in the 1990's seeing as most Conwy Valley platforms were partially raised (to suit 2-car Units) at that time.

Edited November 28, 2014 by coachmann

[manna]

G'Day Gents

 

Finsbury Park, was (may still be) a rather low 24" even in the mid 70's.......always a interesting spectacle, when watching trains arrive and the doors thrown open the be confronted by this massive drop, short skirts, always an eye-opener.

 

manna  

[gordon s]

Afternoon lads…:-)

 

Had a few days away in Venice with my good lady to celebrate our Wedding Anniversary tomorrow.  One way or another it's been a tough year on health issues with her family, so the break did us the world of good.  

 

Progress is still being made on ET station board with the cork track bed down.  Despite all my calculations re platform overhang and the relevant dimensions, I still ended up with having to widen the correct distance out to accommodate the overhang on MK1 coaches, despite the gentle 30' radius curve.  Hopefully the additional 1.5mm each side will resolve the problem.

 

Platform wise, I decided to go down the skeleton route and cut a sheet of 6mm MDF into 16.5mm strips.  The rail head is 6.5mm and platform height is 12mm.  Take away the 2mm MDF platform top and you arrive at the 16.5mm dimension.  The strips are butted up to the 3mm cork and clearance holes drilled vertically through the strip.  I found a bag full of 25mm panel pins and have used them to tack the outer edges in position.  The cross members are cut on 100mm centres and then glued to the outers with Superglue.  I only applied glue to the upper half of the joint as I don't want it running down the joint and sticking the MDF to the baseboard.  Once the skeleton structure is complete, the panel pins will be pulled out and the whole structure lifted clear of the baseboard.  It should be self aligning as the asymmetrical shape should wedge it in position perfectly.

 

With the structure away from the baseboard, I will apply Slaters brick sheet to the front face and add the 2mm MDF top with a 1.5mm overhang.  I'm still thinking about the top surface but a combination of thin cork sheet and plastic edging stones looks a possibility right now.

 

I'm still not planning to lay any track until all the boards are in place and the gradients established.  Hopefully it will all come together, but I am holding off building pointwork until everything on the civil engineering side has passed inspection….:-)

 

 

 

 

[Highlandman]

Happy anniversary to you and your wife, hope you had a good time in Venice. Did you get to see the famous Murano Glassworks and the wonderful mosaics they have in Vencie?

 

As always Gordon, your carpentery and joinery skills amaze me. If only I could match your quality. The platform looks amazing and it's exactly the way I built mine, using a strip wood subframe and thin ply/MDF surface. This method certainly makes it easier to attach items to the surface. Something to screw into instead of thin plasticard often used. Mind you I stuck my stone walls on with the subframe in place, but there again my platform was a much simpler affair.

 

Below is my effort, you can see the strip wood on the far right of the picture. The stone face has already been stuck on the rest.

 

 

 

 

[martin_wynne]

thin ply/MDF surface. This method certainly makes it easier to attach items to the surface. Something to screw into instead of thin plasticard often used.

 

Don't overlook balsa wood as a platform sub-surface. Items can be attached quite firmly with Peco track pins through their feet (people) or glued into the corners of buildings, or into the base of lamp posts, etc. The items can then be easily removed and replaced or moved at any time without needing drilling or glue.

 

Martin.

[The Stationmaster]

Don't overlook balsa wood as a platform sub-surface. Items can be attached quite firmly with Peco track pins through their feet (people) or glued into the corners of buildings, or into the base of lamp posts, etc. The items can then be easily removed and replaced or moved at any time without needing drilling or glue.

 

Martin.

Thank you Martin - I did it that way c.50 years ago and partly very much so because I could get balsa easily and in the right dimensions and it was, as you say, very easy to work.  A balsa sheet platform top also has the advantage of easy (hand) sanding if you need to 'adjust' the clearances but the less said about my ideas for getting a smooth 'tarmac' final surface the better, some materials (Daz, and no I don't mean Das) just do not suit model railway use I found.

[gordon s]

I must admit I quite like the idea of balsa and have several sheets of 3mm to hand.  My thoughts are much thinner than 3mm and it will break easily, but 3mm seems a bit thick and once you add the coping stones it will take it up to 4mm or a foot thick.  I did read somewhere of chamfering the edge to disguise that thickness though.

 

What thickness of balsa were you suggesting Martin?  Did you lay it with the grain down the platform or across?  Lengthwise is easier to cut and sand although you run the risk of it splitting.

 

Any advice you can offer is always gratefully received.

 

2mm MDF is ideal although it's not that easy to cut with a razor saw.

Edited November 29, 2014 by gordon s

[Andrew P]

Evening Gordon, thanks for your input on Bitton and a Happy Anniversary to you and your Good Lady. 

 

I have been catching up on ET again after studying your track building, and the Platform area is looking very good.

[martin_wynne]

What thickness of balsa were you suggesting Martin?  Did you lay it with the grain down the platform or across?  Lengthwise is easier to cut and sand although you run the risk of it splitting.

 

Hi Gordon,

 

Well it's getting on for 30 years since I last built a platform -- these platforms on Adavoyle Junction in fact:

 

 

 

 

The entire platform was first constructed from balsa wood. I'm fairly sure we used 3mm or more likely it would have been 1/8" thick in those days. But not the overhang -- the sub-surface was trimmed flush with the side walls. It was cut lengthwise, from 4" and 3" wide balsa planks. I remember cutting the framework strips from balsa on the circular saw, to provide the correct height, but I can't now remember the actual dimension -- the intention was for the balsa sub-surface to be 2mm below the finished platform top. 

 

Then the coping stones along the edge were laid using Evergreen 2mm x 6mm plastic strips, scribed to represent the individual stones and overhanging the side walls a bit. There is not much overhang on Irish platforms, see:

 

That left a space between the coping strips 2mm deep which was first filled with 1/16" cork sheet, and finally surfaced with 10 thou plasticard to represent the slabs. The latter being scribed and pre-painted streaky grey, and then cut into strips laid individually cross-wise in order to create the staggered joints. I remember a good few evenings spent making and laying those strips.

 

I found a couple of pics showing the layout under construction in 1986. Showing the balsa sub-base and the coping strips added:

 

 

 

I'm not sure if all this helps you much -- it is all such a long time ago now. But I do remember the ease of fixing items onto the platform by simply pushing in thin pins.

 

More Adavoyle Junction pics: http://templot.com/GNRI/adavoyle.htm

 

regards,

 

Martin.

 

edit: link added.

Edited November 29, 2014 by martin_wynne

[PGC]

I'm not sure if all this helps you much -- it is all such a long time ago now. But I do remember the ease of fixing items onto the platform by simply pushing in thin pins.

 

Martin.

 

Colour photography has been invented since!  

 

Phil

[gordon s]

Thanks Martin.  A great help and wonderful to see those pics of such an iconic layout.  Your construction technique certainly makes sense and I wish I'd asked before as I have cut all the strips and fixed them.  At 16.5mm they leave just 10mm above the rail height, with the 2mm top taking it to the 3' recommendation.  It would be impossible to feed the structure through a planer/thicknesser to reduce that 16.5mm dimension as it would just shatter under the shock.  One thing I have taken from your post though is the thought of planing/sanding the edge of the 2mm mdf flush with the sides, rather than use that for the edge itself.  I'm going to give that further thought….

 

Congratulations on your platform construction.  They look very professional indeed.  If I can get anywhere close to that standard, I'll be very pleased.

[gordon s]

It's cold outside, but at least the sun is shining today.

 

OK, platforms are now in their raw state with the plinths lined with Slaters red brick sheet.  This part of the build went fairly well, although I am still considering the platform surface.  I've ordered some Evergreen Strip and 1/16" cork sheet to play around with as a platform surface.  I was impressed with the platforms built by both Larry (Coachman) and Martin W on their layouts, but sadly hadn't taken on board their suggestions before cutting the 16.5 mdf strip.  As it stands the platforms are at the 3' maximum height above the rail head so adding another 1.5mm thickness is not really on.  I have tried this, but it takes it up to coach step level height and above, so does look wrong.

 

This leaves a dilemma as to raise the trackwork by 1.5mm or scrap what I have built to date to drop the 16.5mm strip to 15mm.  It's no big deal to scrap these and build them again, although there is an outside chance of gently feeding them through a thicknesser to take a few thou of at a time and reduce the height by 1.5mm.  Either way, I'm going to sit tight and plough on with the next boards as nine times out of ten another solution comes out of the blue.  

 

I certainly don't have to decide today and the platforms are easily removable and could be built again in one day.  Disappointing, but not the end of the world and probably what I deserve when enthusiasm overtakes logic and research….:-)

 

Nice to see the station building start to take shape although it does need some repair work to replant chimneys and sit the canopy supports properly.  The platform plinth comes out beyond the station building leaving a recess either side.  First thought was station parking etc with steps up to the station proper.  If I decide to rebuild the platforms, I may extend this right out to the board edge with just the pavement height to differentiate the station from the approach road.  Despite starting work as a draughtsman many years ago, I sometimes struggle to visualise things in 3D, so building mock ups is a good way to see how things look before making the final decision.

 

Next stage will be to start the next corner board.  This sees the station approach pointwork and the start of the gradients.  Hopefully my calculations have been correct and it will not only start in the right place, but will join the existing boards in one long gentle slope…;-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Siberian Snooper]

Hi Gordon,

 

It looks like you went for the option of a bay at each end of the island platform.

 

SS