gordon s Posted January 24, 2016 Author Share Posted January 24, 2016 Thanks Mike, that's a distinct possibility, so certainly one of the things to discuss in a few weeks time when that becomes the topic of the day... Of course I could only apply it at the visible section at the front and leave the section behind, but then someone is bound to come round, bend down and look down the line under the bridge and then ask the inevitable question... Food for thought. Whilst Call the Midwife is on I'm going to take a look at the work I've done today. The raised double loop rises a further 9mm above the datum line to allow headroom underneath. This means trains go over a gentle rise just before the bridge rather than over the bridge itself. Now having built this and checked it thoroughly, there may be an opportunity to either slide the peak onto the bridge itself or even to flatten it out completely. I'd forgotten the bridge trackbed is now 6mm MDF rather than 12mm ply, so I have gained 6mm. I quite like the idea of flattening it out completely as the rise is now so small it is hardly worth worrying about. All in all it's been a good day and seeing the photoshopped pics this morning suddenly brought ET to life. Until now it just been a mass of ply with no colour or no real sense of what it will look like. I'm really quite encouraged and who knows it may be 'carry only' tomorrow in which case golf will be off and I'll push on. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted January 31, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2016 Hi Gordon,If you are still using the free trial version of CrossOver on your Mac, you may like to know that Codeweavers are having another one-day special offer today:24 hour FLASH SALE. Save 55% on CrossOver with code MYBONUSBe sure to click more options on the ordering page (their support package won't be much help with Templot). 45% of £25 is £11.25https://www.codeweavers.com/storeEnter code: MYBONUSMartin (no connection). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 31, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) Hi Gordon, If you are still using the free trial version of CrossOver on your Mac, you may like to know that Codeweavers are having another one-day special offer today: 24 hour FLASH SALE. Save 55% on CrossOver with code MYBONUS Be sure to click more options on the ordering page (their support package won't be much help with Templot). 45% of £25 is £11.25 https://www.codeweavers.com/store Enter code: MYBONUS Martin (no connection). Martin (with apologies to Gordon for invading his thread) but does this make the machine vulnerable to bugs etc aimed at Windows? Edited January 31, 2016 by The Stationmaster Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted January 31, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) Martin (with apologies to Gordon for invading his thread) but does this make the machine vulnerable to bugs etc aimed at Windows? Hi Mike, No, CrossOver doesn't contain any Windows code and is not vulnerable to malicious code aimed at the flaws in Windows. It uses a program called Wine instead of Windows. The whole point of Wine is that it is not Windows. It is a completely separate (free) program which pretends to be Windows in order to run programs such as Templot (which are designed to run on Windows) without needing a Windows computer. Wine is not connected with Microsoft and doesn't contain anything at all from Windows (although users can choose to include some Windows components if they wish). Wine is originally intended for Linux computers, where installation is just a couple of clicks. Linux computers are similar to PCs but use the free Linux operating system instead of Windows. They have their own separate free programs to replace Windows programs such as Office. But Wine makes it possible to run most Windows programs on there too, including Templot. Programs such as CrossOver and Winebottler have packaged Wine to run on Mac computers too. CrossOver is a paid-for Wine installer which I have been told is very easy to install and use: https://www.codeweavers.com/products/crossover-mac/ Winebottler is similar and entirely free, but more techy to install: http://winebottler.kronenberg.org/ Gordon has been using CrossOver to run Templot on his Mac computer to get round a problem with his printer. p.s. I posted the info about the CrossOver special offer as soon as I received the promo email about it. Because of time zone differences, I'm not too sure when it is valid, or if it is still valid in the UK. edit: more p.s. Even after the above offer expires, you can still get 25% off CrossOver -- go to the Winebottler page above and scroll to the bottom for details. regards, Martin. Edited January 31, 2016 by martin_wynne Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 Evening guys. Many thanks for the Codeweavers offer, Martin. It certainly looks attractive, but I will stay on my Windows machine as my keyboard (Logitech) still seems incompatible re the function keys and being able to turn off some of the default functions. I've tried all the Apple options to no avail. This means I cannot use the F3 key plus one or two of the others, so I gave up and stayed with my Windows machine. Many thanks for thinking of me just the same... It's been a funny old week as every so often you come up against challenges, most of which can be overcome, but this one has had me baffled for several days now. Just above the stairs I have a bridging board roughly 2m wide. This has been designed as a self contained unit that can be pulled out into the room to make it easy to work on. This means that all the track carpentry has to be split on either side to allow movement of the main board. That's not an issue normally, but one side is a little like spaghetti junction with several levels and the storage sidings underneath. Of course the storage roads cross over the exact point where all the risers are situated to support each end of the continuous loops above. The last few days have seen me looking at every option possible to deal with this and eventually I have settled on this solution. Each side of the board supports, I have some 92mm x 20mm timber cut to 82mm high to give 70mm clearance on a 12mm trackbed for the storage loops. Across the top of these supports I have a bridging piece currently shown as another piece of 92 x 20mm timber. No problem, but the inside track is already on a down gradient and as such the 20mm cross strut has to either reduce to 8mm thick or I will need to change the gradient profile to have a shallow angle to the bridging point, followed by a slightly steeper gradient over the stairs. As the cross strut has to support two single and two double tracks, I may have to use a strip of aluminium or even steel to provide plenty of strength within an 8mm thickness constraint. Here's a couple of pics showing the problem. I think I've cracked it now, but have certainly lost two or three days in construction time. Round the other side, most of the main loops have been finished in carpentry terms and I'm just waiting for the girder sides to arrive, before starting to lay some track on that side of the room. Overall, work is still proceeding, although the room itself is totally upside down with half finished track sections and those awaiting modifications to one end to allow access over the storage loops. The good news is they are fine with no hidden pointwork, so that at least has gone well. Keep smiling..... 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trustytrev Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Hello Gordon, Wick's do a variety of metal sections in steel and aluminum that you may find useful if you get stuck using timber. trustytrev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted February 2, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 2, 2016 Hi Gordon Aluminium has the same strength as steel for the same sized section, it's just not so fire resistant, as was found out down the Falklands. Your timber work looks smashing and has the same flow as the trackwork which will be on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 Thanks SS. Way back in the distant past, I worked at a company who manufactured backplanes and 19" rack systems and the place was full of aluminium sheet and extrusions. Inevitably over the years you 'inherit' all sorts of bits and bobs in various lengths, thinking that will be useful one day. Of course it never gets used and then the day comes with a big garage clear out and it all goes off to the tip.... As always, just when you need something it's gone. Had a quick look on eBay and there are plenty of guys offering strips of aluminium. A couple of bits around 50mm wide and 6mm thick should do the job. It's funny you spend days surrounded by scribbles and sketches trying to solve something and when you eventually stumble on a solution, you can't help but think that's bloomin' obvious, why on earth didn't I see that straight away.... There have been times when I have asked my wife if she can see a solution. Even though she's a 'people person' and mechanical things hold no real interest, she has a very logical mind and the ability to see things without all the technical knowledge we hold can be a huge asset. Of course the reverse is often true, when she will deliberate for days on how to deal with a people issue, whereas my simple head can't understand what the problem is... Managed to get out for a round of golf yesterday and the fresh air and the usual clubhouse banter made a welcome break from staring at a pile of drawings and lengths of plywood, where the idea didn't match the reality. Hopefully all has become clear now and it's all systems go again. Good grief you may even see some track down in the next few weeks.... 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Gordon My local B&Q store has a selection of Ali bars and extrusions, may be worth a drive if you have a local store Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Gordon Have you worked out what sort of track length you will have if or when it's finished? Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 'If it's finished?'... Perish the thought as I'm already on a yellow card from my wife.... The total track length of the whole plan according to Templot is 679'. It's a good job I simplified the design.... Hard to estimate exactly, but I guess the run from ET terminus out and back is around 250'. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted February 2, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) Hi Gordon, If you group all the templates along the out and back run, Templot will tell you the total length of them. box > box info menu item on the storage box. Martin. Edited February 2, 2016 by martin_wynne Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 Thanks Martin, that's what I was using to get the total length. The difficulty is that there is some overlap with the continuous loop and to be honest I was being called for domestic duties, so didn't have the time to go through all the various templates to group them and took an educated guess. When I have a bit more time, I'll get an exact figure.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) OK, been through all the templates and a complete out and back run would actually be a 120' further than I thought at 373'.....or 5.4 miles. Of course 373' = 11369cm and at a scale 60mph a 00 loco will travel 35.2cm per second, so it should take 5mins 23 seconds to do a full circuit out and back at a scale 60mph. Edited February 2, 2016 by gordon s 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 OK, been through all the templates and a complete out and back run would actually be a 120' further than I thought at 373'.....or 5.4 miles. Of course 373' = 11369cm and at a scale 60mph a 00 loco will travel 35.2cm per second, so it should take 5mins 23 seconds to do a full circuit out and back at a scale 60mph. WowAnd a slower goods train could easily take 10-15 minutes! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 3, 2016 Author Share Posted February 3, 2016 (edited) A man arrived this afternoon bearing gifts. A box from the USA containing not three girders, but six.....:-) Note to self: I must read the item details more closely as each pack contained two girders, so expect to see another three making a guest appearance somewhere. The good news is that the quality appears reasonable and once airbrushed should look the part. A couple of pics showing the girders on their own and a more of a close up against the Peco ones. The difference in length is 10" for the Central Valley one and 8.75" for the Peco one. They look dead ringers for the girders in 'Bridges for Modellers' so that's a win win as well. I was pleased not to have to pay any VAT or customs duty.... On the layout front, the storage roads are now well under way. I managed to get some 50mm x 6mm aluminium strip which hopefully will be rigid enough. If not I can always beef it up with some additional supports via threaded rod from the track bed. Edited February 3, 2016 by gordon s 17 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Aluminium has the same strength as steel for the same sized section No, that isn't true. There are thousands of steel specifications, alloys of iron, with a wide range of properties. It is true that some aluminium alloys are stronger than some steels but the strongest steels are stronger than the strongest aluminium alloys. The kind of aluminium section sold by DIY outlets will bend and break more readily than the similar mild steel section that they sell. Having said that, it's probably strong enough for Gordon's purposes. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 3, 2016 Author Share Posted February 3, 2016 Thanks Arthur. Just checked my square. It's 4' long and the blade is 50mm wide x 2.5mm thick. I'm surprised just how flexible it is, so hoping my 50mm x 6mm will be rigid enough.... I'll find out tomorrow...:-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted February 3, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 3, 2016 (edited) I was pleased not to have to pay any VAT or customs duty.... Not the mention the extortionate Post Office charge for "collecting" said VAT/Customs Duty payment.... Brian Edited February 3, 2016 by polybear Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 15, 2016 Author Share Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) Hi Guys.... Two weeks have disappeared, most of which have been tinged with sadness with the death on my wife's first husband. Despite divorcing many years ago they have remained close friends and he was a great guy with whom I shared many a pint. Sadly the rapid onset of cancer took a young and very fit 60 year old from us yesterday. We have been expecting a call for several days now, but it's still hard to take when it happens. RIP Ott. Get them in. It's your round so keep a seat by the fire for me..... When we haven't been back and forth to the Isle of Wight, my idle moments have been pre occupied with the lower left corner where my two dimensional brain struggled to map out a three dimensional issue and what should have been a piece of cake proved to be a problem that devoured 12mm ply almost as quickly as A4 sheets of paper. I won't bore you with the details, but building risers above a 9 road storage area eventually proved to be the straw that nearly broke the camel's back... I had hoped to use some 6mm aluminium strip, but for a variety of reasons that proved to be impractical, so it was back to the drawing board. Numerous plans were drawn and all seemed to promise much, until I tried to build them and failed miserably. Eventually there was no option but to reduce the number of roads passing under the continuous loops by shortening the storage roads and moving the pointwork inboard. Thankfully I have managed to retain all nine roads with a minimum length of 8' and a maximum of 16'. These will all accommodate a 7 coach train and pacific loco, so that's a result. The key to it all was to take the roads under the two highest trackbeds and leave the low level ones absolutely clear. This allowed risers to the lower levels and then by building up from the lower level trackbeds, support could be built to the two higher loops and still provide 70mm plus clearance for the roads underneath. Reducing the number of through access lines from nine to four was a real plus as that has thrown up some space that will now allow further support pillars without clashing with the track, so every cloud has a silver lining. Here's a few pics showing the latest developments... Latest plan with revised roads. The problem area is the bottom left of the plan. Here's the tail end of the nine storage roads with revised pointwork showing the four access lines. There is now plenty of space to add additional pillars without fouling the track or vehicle overhang. This is far from the finished article, but a simple mock up showing how the track loops will be supported with the storage lines passing through. Still lots to do but I'm starting to see ET take shape. These sweeping curves are the feed and return to the lower level using a 1:100 gradient. The centre pair are the continuous loops and the pair on the right will access ET terminus, again up a 1:100 gradient from the double junction under the two windows facing you in this pic. The printed sheets are looking more than a little dog eared now as they have been up and down numerous times over the past fortnight, but have faith, track will appear one day....:-) Onward and upward....in more ways than one... Edited February 15, 2016 by gordon s 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bri.s Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Hi gordon Sorry to hear of the loss Just been thinking about the risers ,how about using threaded bar and washes and nuts like when someone does a helix to hold the up higher level ,the bar will take up a lot less space than a wooden raiser Just a thought Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 15, 2016 Author Share Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) Many thanks Brian for your condolences and idea on threaded rod. I did look at risers as you suggest, but even on 50mm track centres there is no space for any threaded rod between the tracks. That would have resulted in a redesign of the storage roads anyway, so after much trial and error, the only way out that I could see was to reduce the number of exit tracks. Having done that I was able to return to carpentry, which is probably my preferred solution as I feel comfortable working in wood. Hopefully the worst is now behind me and I can push on. I'm really looking forward to seeing a loco running under power. At least then I can prove the gradients are OK....... Can't wait to start building pointwork again. It's been a long time...... Edited February 15, 2016 by gordon s 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted February 15, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 15, 2016 Don't worry about your gradients, Gordon. 4-6-0s, 2-6-0s and Pacifics will be fine. 4-4-0s may need the weights taking out of the coaches of long rakes. My gradients are 85 in 1 and my trains go round fine. Even my Compound will haul 5 bogies and the 0-6-0 goods engines pull 30 wagons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trustytrev Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Hello Gordon, Haven't tried them myself but DCC Concepts Power bases integrated on the up directions of inclines sound a good idea. trustytrev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.M.R. Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Many thanks Brian for your condolences and idea on threaded rod. I did look at risers as you suggest, but even on 50mm track centres there is no space for any threaded rod between the tracks. That would have resulted in a redesign of the storage roads anyway, so after much trial and error, the only way out that I could see was to reduce the number of exit tracks. Having done that I was able to return to carpentry, which is probably my preferred solution as I feel comfortable working in wood. Hopefully the worst is now behind me and I can push on. I'm really looking forward to seeing a loco running under power. At least then I can prove the gradients are OK....... Can't wait to start building pointwork again. It's been a long time...... Have fun with your return to carpentry, Gordon. You really don't need to worry about your gradients. I pull 9 coaches up my 1:48 gradient on a 24" radius curve with many of my locos! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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