Rivet Press tool - is there a review of available types?

[Arthur]

I've read of modellers, probably in MRJ, filing six sides on brass rod, to represent bolt heads, before soldering it in. I feel a panic attack coming on just thinking about it....

 

Nice work on that turntable OzzyO. How do you use those transfer rivets? Not so much applying them (I presume just like any waterslide transfer) but in terms of positioning, spacing and lining up. Do you just slice a strip off, accepting the spacing supplied/available and fix it down ?

[JeffP]

Hello Kenton all,

 

thanks for the reply, we do tend to over emphasize (is that spelt correctly?) the size of rivets, boiler bands, lining and much more. If it was good enough for Stan Beason he would over emphasize the curve on chimneys and such to make it look right. It should be good enough for us.

 

As you say possibly the best way to represent rivets is to drill holes and fill them in (nut house approaching). If you think embossing them is bad (at least that's only a few visits to the nut doctor [i cant spell psychiatrist]). If you want to drill all of them 0.3mm holes (just think how many drills you will go through) the best thing that you can get to fill them in with are some rivets that you can get from the U.S.A. from a company called Scale Hardware. About four or five different sizes are available. They also do hexagon nuts and bolts, square nuts and bolts, both non-working I may add.

 

Transfer rivets, what a god send for some jobs. Like this one.

261.jpg

 

The job was part (OK a fully built turn table) when I got it. But then to mark out all of these rivets and then emboss them would have been mad (and I'm on the edge now), but to drill them all out????????? When we put it in place in its temporary home you cant see them, you may when it goes into its proper home.  

 

OzzyO.

 

PS. to the OP get what you can afford, but I would say, get the best that you can afford. Also get one that you can calibrate for consent sized rivets nothing looks worse than badly formed rivets and deformed sheets of "flat" metal. Apart from wonky lines of straight rivet runs.

 

PPS. Kenton it's not a Vernier that you have on your rivet press it is an index wheel this works by dividing the pitch of the screw thread in to parts. So if the pitch is 1mm and the wheel has 50 divisions one division = 0.02mm

This is a Vernier gauge. Sorry to go OT. but how it work may help some. On the bottom scale. The sliding scale 1mm (50 division's = 49 on the fixed scale) so when you take a measurement the best that you can get is 0.02mm. so the reading on this photo is 0mm and 0".

very near 000.jpg

 

In this photo the calliper is showing 20.82mm and 0.820" to read it you start with the large number 20 in this case, then the large number on the sliding scale 8 in this case then you look for the lines that line up it looks to be the next one so as the scale is in 0.02 increments the reading is 20.82mm

very near 20.jpg

 

One just for a bit of fun.

very near 25.jpg

 

All of this is academic now, as most people have digital callipers. When I was using these things at work we nicknamed them very nears, you could get three or four people to read them and we all could get a different reading.

Surprising how few people can now use them, or read them. I used to teach it in Physics, but it was removed from the syllabus so we could teach about global warming.....as a FACT!

 

My eldest, studying Engineering at Loughborough, was surprised last year when a post-grad student asked him to pass "that thing there"....

Mark responded, "Do you mean this Dial Test Indicator?"

And the post-grad replied, "Is THAT what DTI stands for? I never knew that...."

 

Sorry for going off topic.

[ozzyo]

Here they are on the GW press one for each direction.

 

 

I still use a micrometer along with the digital calliper. Some people never modernise.

Nice work on that turntable OzzyO. How do you use those transfer rivets? Not so much applying them (I presume just like any waterslide transfer) but in terms of positioning, spacing and lining up. Do you just slice a strip off, accepting the spacing supplied/available and fix it down ?

Surprising how few people can now use them, or read them.

My eldest, studying Engineering at Loughborough, was surprised last year when a post-grad student asked him to pass "that thing there"....

Mark responded, "Do you mean this Dial Test Indicator?"

And the post-grad replied, "Is THAT what DTI stands for? I never knew that...."Sorry for going off topic.

 

Hello all,

 

to try and answer all,

First Kenton,

they are just index wheels, looking at the markings on the wheels if the screw pitch is 1mm, so if the numbers start at 1 and go to 9. Looking at the index wheels the best you can get without a guess is 0.05mm (or 0.002"). Unless it has a screw thread that has a pitch of 0.050" then it's 0.005" per division.

I like using mics. rather than verniers as the reading is more accurate and that includes using a vernier mic. Them things will read down to 0.0001" (1/10 of a thou. the glue on a fag paper is 0.0005" thick).

If you use a digital calliper you are modern. The only digital things in my workshop are the camera and the readout on the cross slide of my lathe.

 

Second Arthur,

i looked at the spacing for the rivets. In one part it should have had eight, but on the sheets it only gave seven. I went for the seven. Yes I do count rivets! But I'm not a rivet counter?

I'm more for if it looks right it's right on this one.

So all I did was use the rivet strips that looked about right. I know that I'm mad, but do you think that I'm that mad to put them on one at a time??

The look is what matters in this case, rather than what is absolutely correct. So it's more like a painting than a photo. If it looks right it is right. 

 

JeffP.

what can one say? Apart from that we just called them clocks. Bu99er all good at telling the time. But very good at setting up jobs.

 

Is anyone going to say what the readings are on the very near, that I've not said the readings are?

 

I have the answers, or the best guess, to them.

 

OzzyO.

Edited September 13, 2013 by ozzyo

[Arthur]

Thanks OzzyO, I am reassured knowing that they weren't applied individually!! Seriously, I've never actually seen a sheet of decal rivets, I presumed that they featured lines of rivets, so I was just curious to know how you had used them.

[ozzyo]

Thanks OzzyO, I am reassured knowing that they weren't applied individually!! Seriously, I've never actually seen a sheet of decal rivets, I presumed that they featured lines of rivets, so I was just curious to know how you had used them.

 

Hello Arthur,

 

are these any help?

Archers,

 

Micro Mark

 

are these any use to you?

 

OzzyO.

[Arthur]

Thanks OzzyO, that is a great help to visualise where and how I could use them. Excellent.

[brian777999]

Ozzyo : what are the thick black ''lines'' underneath the crescent shapes ? I cannot quite see them.

 

I have ordered a rivet tool from London Road Models for 11 pounds. It will be here in a few weeks. I have no idea what form it takes or how it is used ; I will work it out when it gets here.

Edited September 14, 2013 by brian777999

[Kenton]

I like the zigzags - wondering on what prototype the drunken riveter knocked them out.

[ozzyo]

Ozzyo : what are the thick black ''lines'' underneath the crescent shapes ? I cannot quite see them.

 

I have ordered a rivet tool from London Road Models for 11 pounds. It will be here in a few weeks. I have no idea what form it takes or how it is used ; I will work it out when it gets here.

 

Hello Brian,

 

the thick black lines are to represent louvres, how well they would do it I don't know? The Micro Mark ones you get two sheets per order, the down side is the cost of the P&P $18 IIRC so if your going to get any see if Micro Mark have any thing else that you want.

 

IIRC the London Road Models riveter is the basic drop riveter.

 

OzzyO.

Edited September 14, 2013 by ozzyo

[JeffP]

 

JeffP.

what can one say? Apart from that we just called them clocks. Bu99er all good at telling the time. But very good at setting up jobs.

 

Is anyone going to say what the readings are on the very near, that I've not said the readings are?

 

I have the answers, or the best guess, to them.

 

OzzyO.

I make it 25.502?

[ozzyo]

I make it 25.502?

Sorry Jeff that's not what I get it to. Apart from anything the Vernier only reads to a definition of 0.02mm.

 

I think that this shows why digital callipers are so popular. One other thing about digital callipers that you can't do with a Vernier calliper is set it to zero at any point on the scale.

 

One thing that both of them have is the ability to measure in four plains, namely, external, internal, external step and internal step.

 

OzzyO.   

[kipford]

Brian

I have ordered a rivet tool from London Road Models for 11 pounds. It will be here in a few weeks. I have no idea what form it takes or how it is used ; I will work it out when it gets here

 

This is what they look like. One of our club members makes them for John Redrup at LRM.

[Kenton]

An economical, low tech, minimalist engineered, solution to the single rivet punch. Easy to use, no fuss, repositioning and widely adjustable impact, one size fits all approach.

[Adrian]

I like the zigzags - wondering on what prototype the drunken riveter knocked them out.

 

Plenty of prototype examples - quite a few of them steam locos. A lap joint requiring a double row of rivets will often be laid out like this,

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/faversham-gallery/8478655478/

 

 

 

The late and great Mel Hodges (his 4mm riveting was to die for) used a much-modified watchmaker's mainspring punch, but a good one will probably cost you an arm and a leg. Also in the arm and a leg league is the Tony Reynalds riveter set (special order only, and I'm not sure he even does them now), but it's probably the best in the biz.

 

 

The Tony Reynalds rivet design, developed from Beesons, was being produced and updated by Lee Marsh - this was from his website a couple of years ago.

 

 

The cost is £130 (includes postage). If you are interested in ordering one then just send me an email with your details, no money is required until the tools are ready for shipping. They will be known as "BRM riveting tools" BRM stands for Beeson-Reynalds-Marsh. The dolls have been CNC machined and are now away for hardening and tempering. The CNC machined strikers are due very soon.

 

 

From

 

http://www.modelmaker.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

 

I had enquired about getting one but never heard anything since - unfortunately he seems to have got side tracked on to small batch building of locos.

[Adrian]

I make it 25.502?

 

 

Sorry Jeff that's not what I get it to. Apart from anything the Vernier only reads to a definition of 0.02mm.   

 

25.47mm or thereabouts!

[ozzyo]

25.47mm or thereabouts!

 

I was thinking about 1.003", so in that ball park.

[Adrian]

I was thinking about 1.003", so in that ball park.

 

Blimey if a quarter of a thou is in the same ball park I shudder to think what a gnats whisker would be for you.

 

[ozzyo]

A nats whisker is approx very small! It's a bit like what the last thing that goes through a nats mind when it hits a wind-shield??

 

I was thinking about 25.46mm or 25.48mm. That is what I was saying about a Vernier calliper it's a good tool but digital ones are so much better.

 

I did see a fellow at work measuring a job with a Mic. and you would have though he was using a clamp, but he did get it to the size "he" wanted, but the inspector did not agree with him. 

 

OzzyO.

[david.hill64]

I use the gravity rivetter: I like it a lot as it is easy to get consistent sized rivets.

 

Here is a suggestion for etched kit manufacturers who produce etches that need to be punched out. Please include somewhere on the fret a test section where you can practice rivetting to set up the correct drop. If you are also going to use part of the fret as strip material, include half etched holes so that they can be used if needed.

[Kenton]

 

Here is a suggestion for etched kit manufacturers who produce etches that need to be punched out. Please include somewhere on the fret a test section where you can practice rivetting to set up the correct drop. If you are also going to use part of the fret as strip material, include half etched holes so that they can be used if needed.

A good idea - along with the spare tiny bits that always seem to ping as they are removed. So often there is wasted space on the fret that could be put to good use by a simple copy & paste in the CAD.

 

Of course if you use a press like the GW one you don't need to practise

[david.hill64]

  A good idea - along with the spare tiny bits that always seem to ping as they are removed. So often there is wasted space on the fret that could be put to good use by a simple copy & paste in the CAD.

 

Of course if you use a press like the GW one you don't need to practise

I have an unmade Brassmasters kit that includes the following in the instructions:

 

"Wherever possible, spares of small component parts have been included to allow for those which refuse to be parted form their hiding place in the carpet."

 

Priceless!

[ozzyo]

I've just bumped a thread about riveting tools in the kit and scratch building section, that may help you.

 

OzzyO.

[Rod Fearnley]

I managed to pick this up today for £12.00 at the Bury St Edmunds O gauge show.  I’m looking for spare anvils, does anybody know a source please?

[jonhall]

2 hours ago, Rod Fearnley said:

I managed to pick this up today for £12.00 at the Bury St Edmunds O gauge show.  I’m looking for spare anvils, does anybody know a source please?

 

I suspect that's all there is, certainly mine has an identical anvil - I think they may have been untended to do something related to gun/bullet making.

 

If you get as far as commissioning a different anvil I'd be interested.

Jon

[Rod Fearnley]

Not according to the paperwork in the box Jon. There are 4 different sizes available, besides the .028 anvil that it comes with(?)

I’ll keep you informed of my search results.

Rod