Starting afresh

[AndyB]

Help!

 

About 6 years ago I started work on a 00 layout that now fills my garage. It followed a shunting planks layout based on CJ Freezer plans and has the great advantage that you can sit back and watch the trains go by.

 

 

Here's what I've achieved so far.

 

 

A young family and business commitments meant that progress was a little slower than others might have achieved, but the whole thing has been enjoyable. As my eldest grew she was able to help daddy do papier mache hills and so there's a fair bit of sentiment thrown into the current layout.

 

The layout isn't finished and there are plenty of cameo scences and buildings that could be developed. But, to be honest the compromises I had to make on design are starting to grate; excessive gradients, tight curves, tricky access in one corner, turnaround loops that immediately return a train in the opposite direction...

 

So, I'm thinking it may be time for a change. This is where I'm hoping that you might help my thinking.

 

How common is it to get a layout to 80% completion and then tear it up? When I mentioned this to my neighbour his reaction was akin to Munch's "Scream". The layout is a bit of a focal point on a summer evening in our road and there were suggestions that there should be some bar stools along one end and optics....

 

By re-cycling the current track and points I've got more than sufficient OO track to complete a new layout. But to complicate things I've recently started to dabble in N gauge and was starting to think along N gauge lines for the next layout. I could, obviously, sell the 00 track and rolling stock, but each bit of stock was a present collected over many birthdays and Christmases and I'd hate to see it go. The flip side is that N gauge would really allow the trains to be set in a landscape, rather than dominate it. Anyone got thoughts on how to resolve the 00/N gauge dilemma?

 

This is what I'm thinking, but would like to hear your thoughts.

 

1. Take up the old track, once the kids have had plenty of play from it over the summer.

2. Dry line the garage walls with coated MDF sheet to help reflect more light and make the place feel a bit more like a railway room.

3. Improve the lighting.

4. Rework the baseboards.

5. Make a decision on whether to stick with 00 gauge, or switch to N gauge.

6. Plan new layout.

 

Interestingly I didn't put down "Finish current layout" as an option, so I guess I've answered the "big" question myself?

[AndyB]

As this post has been up a few days you might like to see the results.

 

Q1 If it was a blank canvas would you go for 00 or N gauge in a garage-based layout

11 to 6 in favour of 00 gauge.

 

q2 The canvas ISN'T blank - you have plenty 00 gauge track and stock. Would you swap to N gauge?

 

15 to 2 in favour of sticking with 00 gauge.

 

Rather tells me that we're all quite frugal or sentimental !?

 

Thanks for all your views. Time will tell whether I'll go with N gauge - I rather think I may. with an L-shaped baseboard along the side and back of the garage. Maybe a 2 or 4 track main line to justify lots of train movements and some element of "roundy roundy" to allow me to sit back and watch trains. Being able to access the up and over door would also make it easier to get the bikes in and out, too.

[Kenton]

As this post has been up a few days you might like to see the results.

Only just found it and voted. BTW we can see the results as they change.

 

My own view is do not change gauge. Despite what most people think, given the same working space for a layout N is the most expensive. All you have to do is compare the prices of all those small detailing bits along with more trains are required in N compared to OO compared to O, yet N gauge trains are almost as expensive as OO and they are not far off O.

So making a change will be expensive.

 

I model in 2, 4, and 7mm and I also think that making the leap from 4mm to 2mm is not an easy one to make. Inevitably with all that extra space to work with in N the scenic detailing does require that bit extra in treatment. Also the odd mm error in track laying or scenic placement can look so much worse and with regard to track can produce ragged running.

 

Of course it doesn't have to be a big layout - that will likely also never get completed. You could do more than one plank and concentrate on the detail. Any project, in theory, becomes more manageable when broken down into smaller units.

[AndyB]

Thanks, Kenton.

 

Undoubtedly you are right that N gauge will be more expensive. At present I'm running 5 coach trains in 00. In N gauge I could easily go to 8 coach trains. Likewise a rake of wagons of might easily extend to 20 in N gauge, whereas 5-8 would appear long in 00.

Locos seem roughly equivalent price. I'm going with the "Rome wasn't built in a day" philosophy and collecting stock as time goes by, spreading the cost.

 

Where I'd slightly disagree is that the detailing may cost more. From my perspective I'd be tempted to use the space to develop uncluttered country landscape, rather than, say, an extensive town scene which would take loads of buildings, cars, people etc.

 

Andy

[marc smith]

Hi,

 

I had voted OO to both questions,

but knowing my temdency to buy far too much of everything,

I'd probably opt for both scales!

 

I build small layouts, in different scales / gauges

and my garage is getting full.....

of lots of small layouts!

So I can sympathise

 

As long as you are enjoying the hobby, I wouldn't worry about it

but as 2mm is so small - perhaps you have room for a bookcase / shelf type micro layout in N?

 

I seem to recall an N gauge layout in Hornby mag, sometime back

which was a circular layout, around 2 feet in diameter

go on, have BOTH

 

Cheers

Marc

[Coombe Barton]

I've voted for retention of the status quo for the following reasoons.

 

• You're used to and have experience in the scale.
• N takes just as long to construct as 00 as there's more of it.
• A building in N takes as much time to build as in 00 but the finished article fills less space.
• So you have to build more of them
• It's taken six years thus far. How can yoi tell that time is going to become more available?
• David Jenkinson want to 0 from EM in the 1980s becuase his area was, in a way, just too big to comnplete.
• Are you going to do the same.
• Totnes in N is amaller than your area
• Don't know how old you are, but is the eyesight going to hold out? (Mine hasn't)

Just my two pennorth..

[F-UnitMad]

 

About 6 years ago I started work on a 00 layout that now fills my garage. It followed a shunting planks layout based on CJ Freezer plans ...

... But, to be honest the compromises I had to make on design are starting to grate; excessive gradients, tight curves, tricky access in one corner, turnaround loops that immediately return a train in the opposite direction...

 

 

To my mind, that's where your problem lies; following anything planned by CJF...(except Minories)

 

Try looking at more up-to-date plans, by the likes of Ian Rice etc. Things have moved on since the days of the CJF Philosophy of "Cram in as much as Possible", and I can tell his influence when you talk of a "Two or Four Track mainline"... I wouldn't contemplate any more than a two-track mainline in an average garage, or you're back to train-set curves etc.

Stick with OO but change your track plan Guru...

[Colin]

My two penn'orth for what its worth - I'd actually posted this next bit on another thread by mistake! I voted for sticking with 00.................

 

 

(copied from post on "To Scrap Or Not To Scrap"

I think I'd stick with 00 if I were in your situation - you're obviously reluctant to dispose of some of your stock for a start. Other considerations - you certainly won't get much for your track (some dealers won't even consider it, especially flexible stuff that's been used and cut to size), and you probably have a lot of scale-specific items (buildings, vehicles, figures etc) which has very little value to a dealer but could be reused by you on a new project.

I'm in favour of careful dismantling and rebuilding in 00 with perhaps a simpler plan (perhaps just a double track main line oval with fiddle yard on one side) and then spending much greater attention on the scenic side. Open out the curves (my garage layout has 3' minimum in the scenic area and 2'6 minimum in the fiddle yard), avoid sharp gradients and unnecessary loops and tracks. A fairly simple station (urban or rural, the choice is yours) might be the answer if you prefer a "trains in the landscape" layout.

 

Were I forced by circumstances to start again from scratch I might consider N (I do dabble in German N from time to time) but after 40-odd years in the hobby I have far too much 00 stuff to consider a complete change, some of which has considerable sentimental value.

[AndyB]

Good to get all your "two pennies worth". Much appreciated.

I do have an N gauge micro layout under development, which was primaril started as something to do in Winter when the garage is too cold. Hence my plan to do some work improving the habitability of the garage to make it somewhat nice to work in year round.

 

This micro layout is really what got me thinking about doing something bigger in N, as well as making me look at my 00 stuff and thinking it looked a little chunky. It also made me realise my eyesight would probably cope, although it isn't perfect by any means.

 

One reason to change the layout is to make it more accessible to work on. The layout is at waist height, but the Minories station is about 6 inches higher. This really does cause back ache working for any length of time on scenery at the back of the board. Also, the station itself is tucked into one corner.

 

Changing the shape from a full circuit to an L-shape will also allow the up and over door to be used (for bikes) and free up space for a small modelling desk. Not to mention no longer having to duck under the baseboads; something that is fine now, but in 10-15 years time?

 

On the time side, I started the layout when my first child was literally a baby and my business was just starting up. So, there wasn't a lot of time to do anything. That is subtely changing and I can forsee that time will be easier to come by.

 

As for the track plan...

Fully take on board the points raised about CJ Freezer plans cramming track in.

Looking at the layouts in the modelling press and at exhibitions the most effective ones (IMHO) the phrase "less is more" springs to mind.

[AndyB]

Stick with OO but change your track plan Guru...

 

Just bought a rather nice book by Ian Futers - Modelling Scotland's Railways and also been looking at the very impressive "Dalmally" in Railway Modeller June 2007 by Paul Timperley.

 

And looking at all my 00 rolling stock I can't bring myself to box it up and leave it unplayed with.

 

If for no other reason it looks like a stock list from the aforementioned "Dalmally"!

 

With #2child taking an interest in trains there's a strong argument for an operationally simple layout that he could realistically play with and which has scope for him to do some large scale papier mache scenery! If he really got into it then we could look at something more ambitious in years to come, maybe.

 

Andy

[Rich.B]

Hi Andy,

 

I have been in a similar situation to this in as much as thinking of trading all My 00 gauge loco's, stock, etc to change to N gauge. But I've now decided to use both scales as Marc Smith suggested earlier in the thread.

I was in a situation about 4 years ago when I had little choice in having to dismantle my `as good as completed' 00 gauge layout `Badgers Lane' (of which I have pictures on My album on RMweb) due to moving house.

Luckily the main scenic section was a separate unit and was taken out of it's continuous run format, and could be used as an end to end again as it was initially designed. Unfortunately, after moving house I had no where in which to store the layout and also we moved again shortly afterwards so the layout had to be sold, which was better than scrapping it completely.

After further house moves I still have no permanent home or proper storage for a large layout, but I still wanted somewhere I could run my 00 stock and so I designed a small `test track' that folds in two to form a protective case.

I shall put some photo's on here soon of my 00 test track and keep adding pics as I progress with it, ok it's no grandiose affair but is compact enough to store up the corner in the bedroom. I also plan to put some scenery on it so it gives a nice setting to watching or photographing my loco's and stock of which as is usually the case with all us modellers we have way more than we really need.

My `new found' dabbling in N gauge resulted in watching the ever improving range of `goodies' on offer in this up and coming scale, not that I'm any stranger to this scale as I've modelled in N a few times in the past but I wasn't at all impressed like most folks with the poor standards in the scale back then.

Obviously, after Bachmann and other manufacturers have taken the reins, the scale is fast catching up with it's 00 rival in all ways.

So, now I am involved yet again in N gauge, and to be honest I'm very impressed with it and glad I've taken the plunge again, and so with little space already I've constructed another small continuous layout in N, lol.

As I've had to downsize my 00 collection, and sold much of it on ebay, and this has funded my new N scale loco's, stock, etc, defeating the object of the exercise a bit I know, but I've been strict with myself on this and planned properly and have just stuck to buying `only what I need' this time and still have a nice little collection and a `truely portable' little layout that is progressing really well, you can also see the N scale project in my albums as well.

I still have a fair amount of 00 stuff left and have considered selling it all and going completely to N gauge, but as most of the comments I've seen on here suggest, it's very hard to part with those items that you really like or even more so those of a `sentimental' value.

Also as mentioned the `actual' market value is very low really for items that you have taken much time to construct or collect and expenditure in obtaining, it's now got to a point where, I would rather box up what I have and store it than literally `give it away', so, yes I now have two small layouts, and the `best of both worlds' even if on a small scale, I can still run all my loco's and stock whether 00 or N, and thus keep my cherished items.

I do see your reasons and fully understand your logic in making your garage a better place to work and with easier access, it's certainly makes a difference to be able to work on a layout on the work bench etc if you have one, it's no joy messing around trying to wire under baseboards and trying to reach to difficult places to do scenery, `been there, done that' and I'm not so keen now.

You also mention your young son starting to take an interest, this is good, and he may well want to build his own small little roundy round layout which being something small and portable is a much easier for him to buy for and learn from in building with your help whilst being together in your workshop.

It's also refreshing to have different projects to do, as the saying goes, `change is good as a rest', and as you said you can still have a better design of layout that could be if you wish, be semi-permanent, and would be great should you ever wish to exhibit it, or that old one `the house move'.

I hope this is helpful to you to be able to decide what you want to do, but at the end of the day the decision is your's, maybe even think of sorting any of your unwanted items from your 00 collection and turning it into funds to be able to have an even better N scale layout, or even let your son use some of you unwanted bits and pieces.

 

Regards, Rich.B

[AndyB]

Hi, Rich,

 

All good thoughts. I've made my choice and have made a cracking start!

 

It was really therapeutic taking the old layout apart.

 

Just heading out of the door for a business trip, so apologies for this very brief reply.

 

I'll scan of my initial layout design up over the weekend. Suffice to say for now that

 

I'll be reading one of Ian Futers books on a 4 hour flight tomorrow morning.

 

All the best, Andy

[Rich.B]

Hi, Rich,

 

All good thoughts. I've made my choice and have made a cracking start!

 

It was really therapeutic taking the old layout apart.

 

Just heading out of the door for a business trip, so apologies for this very brief reply.

 

I'll scan of my initial layout design up over the weekend. Suffice to say for now that

 

I'll be reading one of Ian Futers books on a 4 hour flight tomorrow morning.

 

All the best, Andy

 

Hi Andy,

 

Nice one, sorry I'm a little late posting back but I'm just getting back through my older posts, hope the trip went well and you enjoyed the book lol.

So long as you are happy with what you've decided to do then there's not problem really, hope your new project goes well and keep us posted on it's development Please.

 

Regards,

 

Rich

[AndyB]

Hi Andy,

 

...sorry I'm a little late posting back...

 

 

So long as you are happy with what you've decided to do then there's not problem really, hope your new project goes well and keep us posted on it's development Please.

 

 

No problem at all. I've been cracking on with the new layout and haven't really had a chance to post about it recently. So far the baseboards have been reshaped and extended, and about a third of the track is down. Track plan is really simple and follows a Scottish theme.

 

Is it just me or are Scottish layouts the "new" GWR branchline?

 

A recent birthday saw a couple of rolls of Gaugemaster ballast roll - absolutely brilliant stuff, and a hot wire foam cutter. These two products alone should cut years off the construction.

 

I'd be more than happy to keep people informed about progress. What's the best way on RMweb these days?

 

Andy

[big jim]

i've decided to start with a completly blank canvas with a new layout to the extent that nothing on warmington is going to be used on whatever layout i decide to build next, its up for sale with everything included right down to the people on there, i couldn't see the point in damaging a perfectly good layout removing glued down people, buildings etc for the sake of a few quid

 

the only thing im keeping is the locos and stock and the controller, even leaving the accessory decoders on there

 

however if it doesn't sell then i'm going to incorporate it into a corner of the new layout, which will be a roundy roundy type, all i would need to do is remove the backscene and build the new baseboards round it so to speak, the only problem with that option is the money im hoping to get for warmington is going towards paying for a shed, catch 22 really!!