Mallard to Germany

[Ian Allen]

A Stanier Coronation in good condition should be able to wrest Mallards crown. In theory, 3300hp, free running, and double chimneys from 1939 onwards. However, is a coal of high enough calorific value available for such a test ? Don't forget though, that 6220 "Coronation" herself on the inaugral press run achieved 114mph before being reigned back approaching Crewe...and was still accelerating at this point.

[Chameleon]

I noticed the comment that Mallard will be going from Shildon by road but will be travelling by rail over on the continent? Surely it could do the whole trip by rail (except the chunnel of course, we all know how pedantic THAT lot are!) If it can travel up from York by rail, why not the other way?

[frobisher]

Surely it could do the whole trip by rail (except the chunnel of course, we all know how pedantic THAT lot are!) If it can travel up from York by rail, why not the other way?

 

That's the point though.- if she can't do the journey out of Great Britain by rail and has to use a boat, you might as well load her on a boat nearer to where she's starting in the UK as that's a whole bunch less route miles you need to negotiate/cost for on the network plust the other boat may land her somewhere more convenient than Calais for her onward journey on the continent..

[EddieB]

Either 05001 if it's still capable of running

Cheers,

John E.

 

As far as I know, 05001 has been on static display at the DB museum, Nürnberg, since 1963, so would require substantial refitting to be returned to running order. Were it to be, then it should have the capability to be faster than 18201.

[Horsetan]

As far as I know, 05001 has been on static display at the DB museum, Nürnberg, since 1963, so would require substantial refitting to be returned to running order. Were it to be, then it should have the capability to be faster than 18201.

 

It would probably need a new boiler and firebox. The originals were not thought to be in a particularly good state when the engine was originally retired from service. This would in principle be the same for any surviving "Einheitslok" design still carrying boilers formed from St.47.K-grade cold-rolled steel - they tended to crack.

[ben racey]

Here's some links to the relevant pages on 'german steam info' of in cab shots of 18-201 whilst doing her fast run in 1995:

 

http://www.germanste...loco.html#these

 

Other pages as well:

 

http://www.germanste...astestloco.html

 

Including some stuff on 05002 vs 4468. Having had a run with 18201 at the Easter 1994 plandampf, it really is a remarkably fast machine, very soft exhaust beat and not much thrash - but soooo much speed......

 

Regards

 

Richard.

[melmerby]

The problem with all these claimed rail speed records is that they are really flukes.

 

For a land speed record to be recognized there has to be two runs in opposite directions within a given time limit and the average taken.

No rail records ever come near to meeting those criteria.

 

There always seem to be discrepancies between different timers and the Dynamometer car (if used) and so often the highest claimed figure is presented. E.g. City of Truro's 100mph was due to a sudden blip of speed not accepted by some(most?) timers, likewise Mallard's 126mph and the Coronation's claimed 114mph maxima were due to a sudden small, but significant, increase during a relatively steady speed curve.

 

Keith

[Bomag]

 

For a land speed record to be recognized there has to be two runs in opposite directions within a given time limit and the average taken.

No rail records ever come near to meeting those criteria.

 

There always seem to be discrepancies between different timers and the Dynamometer car (if used) and so often the highest claimed figure is presented. E.g. City of Truro's 100mph was due to a sudden blip of speed not accepted by some(most?) timers, likewise Mallard's 126mph and the Coronation's claimed 114mph maxima were due to a sudden small, but significant, increase during a relatively steady speed curve.

 

Keith

 

The only people who say you have to have two runs is the FIA, not really relevant for railways. The validity of any claim depends on the method of recording and validation of the method. The Dynamometer was likely to be the most reliable method at the time and is something that can be validated - not something you can not do with manual timings. Today you still have problems with GPS, on a MkiV set its only accurate to about +/- 1.5mph unless you use differential GPS. (If its a Voyager forget it!).

 

I thought that the LNER only claimed 125mph as Mallard maintained at least that for a minimum of 1/4 mile.

[melmerby]

 

I thought that the LNER only claimed 125mph as Mallard maintained at least that for a minimum of 1/4 mile.

 

Records show that the claim at the time was lower than the later published record.

 

With their earlier record attempt the LMS claimed 114mph, just enough to beat the LNER's then current maximum, although independent timers wouldn't accept more than 112mph.

City of Truro also seemed to have gained just enough to beat the magic ton although other timers wouldn't accept more than (I think) 97-98 mph.

 

It's the sudden spikes on an otherwise fairly smooth speed curve, which enable a record to be claimed, that arouse suspicion.

 

Keith

[Mike J]

The generally accepted way of most accurately measuring locomotive performance during the 1930s involved using a dynamometer car. This is why Mallards record attempt included one in the formation and why the record is generally accepted by historians.

The roll from the record run shows speed rising to 125 mph before milepost 91 and 124.25 mph around milepost 91. The speed then actually falls to 124 mph, then 123.50 mph on the level. The 1964 re-examination of the roll shows that speed then began to rise again just after milepost 90 1/2. 124.50 mph and then 125 mph was recorded before a sharp rise to an absolute maximum of 126 mph. Speed then dropped to 124.25 mph at milepost 90 before once again starting to rise, hitting 125 mph for a third time just before milepost 89 3/4. The regulator was then closed and speed began to fall away.

As Mallard was travelling at or just above 125 mph for a quarter of a mile, this is why Gresley accepted the lower figure and not the actual absolute maximum of 126 mph.

[D605Eagle]

Is is due to the lack of air brakes on Mallard that would restrict the made up trains speed that is excluding it from traveling all the way to Germany via rail?

[45669]

As far as I know, 05001 has been on static display at the DB museum, Nürnberg, since 1963, so would require substantial refitting to be returned to running order. Were it to be, then it should have the capability to be faster than 18201.

 

It was certainly there this time last year :

 

 

The DB Museum is well worth a visit if you're down that way. There are some more pictures on my Flickr site if anyone is interested to have a look :

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/train-pix/sets/72157626725851209/with/5780682765/

[ste234]

Well, even if 05001 did ever beat Mallards speed record, Mallard is a lot more aesthetically pleasing to look at than the German one!

To me she should always be the fastest, because as other have said, it was the cutting edge at the time!

 

However I would love to see another A4, have a go at the record, given the ideal running conditions etc, just to see what they could actually achieve. Could they actually get the 130mph?

[Ollie K]

On 25/04/2011 at 17:32, ben racey said:

 

Here's some links to the relevant pages on 'german steam info' of in cab shots of 18-201 whilst doing her fast run in 1995:

 

http://www.germanste...loco.html#these

 

Other pages as well:

 

http://www.germanste...astestloco.html

 

Including some stuff on 05002 vs 4468. Having had a run with 18201 at the Easter 1994 plandampf, it really is a remarkably fast machine, very soft exhaust beat and not much thrash - but soooo much speed......

 

Regards

 

Richard.

Hello all,

 

Been reading and learning from RMweb for a little while now so about time I jumped in.

 

At Christmas I found this thread and the links to the Germansteam website really interesting. However the site now appears to be down, and the links broken.

 

By any chance did anyone archive the pages or know of another place they’re now homed? I was born and bred a few miles from Little Bytham and I’ll devoir any info or accounts of Mallard’s run. 81 years ago yesterday!

 

Thanks.

[K14]

With older threads like this one. it's not uncommon to get broken/dead links. When that happens, copy the link & paste it into the box here:

 

https://web.archive.org/

 

I had to go back to Feb 2014 before finding a link that works for the first one:—

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20140222161037/http://www.germansteam.co.uk/FastestLoco/fastestloco.html

 

I'm sure you can figure out the other link.

 

Pete S.

[Ollie K]

On 06/07/2019 at 20:58, K14 said:

With older threads like this one. it's not uncommon to get broken/dead links. When that happens, copy the link & paste it into the box here:

 

https://web.archive.org/

 

I had to go back to Feb 2014 before finding a link that works for the first one:—

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20140222161037/http://www.germansteam.co.uk/FastestLoco/fastestloco.html

 

I'm sure you can figure out the other link.

 

Pete S.

Thank you Pete, that worked first time. Much obliged!

 

Ollie