bbishop Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 In truth I couldn't work out into which zone to place this topic, so won't mind if it were moved. I'm building some stock for a 4mm/OO layout of the Longmoor Military Railway. The LMR acquired an ex-LNWR Crystal Palace break van and I should like to provide one for the layout. I'm struggling a bit to find out if a suitable kit is available because I usually model the LSWR in 7mm. So I should be grateful for information before I bend the ears of the London Road Models guys at ExpoEM. By the by, how do people cope with modelling in 4mm? I need a very bright light, strong magnigication and just the right input of alcohol to steady the nerves. Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 How did this break van differ from the rest? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbishop Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 The honest answer is that I don't know! Tony was in his school's cadet force, which had links with the Longmoor Military Railway and so his summer camps were on the LMR. His model aims to re-create that era. Tony has researched the stock owned by the LMR and I am building kits where appliciable. So far I have produced the LBSCR open, three MR vans, two BR vans are awaiting brake gear and a LSWR van is awaiting replacement brake gear (I melted a whitemetal part). On the brake van front, the LMR had BR standards, SR pillboxes, LSWR road vans and one LNWR Crystal Palace break van, I am completely ignorant about LNWR break vans and don't know much about 4mm (other than it is too bl**dy small) but am confident I could build a kit. I just need to know if one exists, It is interesting that railways would spell words differently - the LNWR called them break vans, some other railways had brake vans. Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyA Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 As the culprit behind all the work that Bill is doing, I will come to his help. The two vans in question, WD49025 and WD49026 were standard LNWR 20-ton unfitted brake vans to diagram 17B. They had a 10ft wheelbase and 18ft overall length. They were bought by the LMR in 1957 and WD49025 went to the KESR in 1969 where it was numbered 104. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Ok, well, if they were the standard variety, then you want the London Road Models Kit (as I think Bill alludes to above): http://www.scalefour.org/londonroad/lnwrbv.html That said, looking at the KESR site you might have some problems since about the only commonality appears to be length. Inside as opposed to external body framing, steel underframe as opposed to wood, totally different springing arrangement... Regarding 'Break Vans', all this reveals is the forgotten truth that standardised spelling is much more recent (in English and most vernacular languages for that matter) than people think! Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 The London Road Models version is for the Diagram 16, 10 Ton 4 wheel version. The LNWR Society's Webbsite has a good section showing the various versions. http://www.lnwrs.org.uk/Wagons/brakes/BrakeVans.php Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Illustrations here http://www.kesr.org....ons/no-104.html and http://www.themodelk...facturers_id=19 The LNWR's illustrated web page is http://www.lnwrs.org...es/Diag017B.php Definatly longer than LRM's D16 by 2' 6", fortunatly the Dia 17B has no outside timber bracing, so not that difficult to scratch build. I thought the HMRS had some drawings of this Break* Van (Edit - Yes, Drg No.1528), but I can't find anything in the drawings list on their web site - actually I can't find ANYTHING. * Break - that's what it says on a copy of the D16 GA drawing I have (No. 1, L&NWR Earlstown, May 1889), They will be described in Vol 3 of LNWR Wagons, unfortunatly that may be some time coming as Vol 2 has only just arrived, some 10 years after Vol 1. Of course there's always the one on the K&ESRly that can be measured up, although somebody on here may have a copy of the drawing or of course you can try and use the one on the LNWRSoc's web site above.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 How did this break van differ from the rest? Thanks for the info re the LNW Societies website http://www.lnwrs.org.uk/Wagons/brakes/Diag017B.php which gives the answer to my question. It is to do with the larger end windows. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbishop Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 Thanks for all your comments, and your confirmation there isn't an extant kit. I leant on London Road Models whilst at Bracknell. It's on their list, but when .... Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 If and when they do appear it will sell a few methinks. The market is a bit short on LNWR brake vans and these did as pointed out, have long lives.... Ah the joys of freight stock Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Gentlemen, don't get too excited. As the person who has designed the LNWR kits for LRM over the last few years, it's not on my list. Regrettably John Redrup just doesn't have time to do any artwork design at present. I am also busy with some other designs for LRM as well as my own modelling interests. Looking at the photo on the LNWR Society website, the LNWR D17B Crystal Palace brake van doesn't lend itself to a totally etched approach. Either some whitemetal castings would be required (so patterns and mould would have to be produced) or brass bar would have to be supplied for the end stanchions, etc. with etched rivet overlay strips for the detail. The buffers and axlebox spring units look different to anything already available, so more pattern work required there. The duckets might also lend themselves to being supplied as a casting, rather than an etched assemby. If one of you would like to design it, I'm sure LRM would be happy to handle the production and marketing. Jol Wilkinson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Wouldn't the body of a chunky thing like that be an ideal candidate for resin mouldings? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Traxson Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Wouldn't the body of a chunky thing like that be an ideal candidate for resin mouldings? Just needs a few plasticard patterns, like 2 sides, 2 ends, 1 inner end and the lookouts, buffer planks as part of the ends and solebars as part of a separate chassis, footboards and one axleguard /spring setup, doesn't look particularly difficult, just time consuming. The number of window openings make it a bit of a so and so for a one piece body. I could possibly find time over the next couple of years to make moulds and cast a few but no chance of time for pattern making. How are you fixed Richard! Phil T. Port Wynnstay Models Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Wouldn't the body of a chunky thing like that be an ideal candidate for resin mouldings? Good idea. Perhaps with some etched items for the fine detail. I know that John Redrup has been talking to one cast resin manufacturer, so I'll speak to him about it at Railex (if I get there). Anybody got some drawings? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbishop Posted May 24, 2011 Author Share Posted May 24, 2011 Anybody got some drawings? Jol, John Redrup admits to a set. Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Jol, John Redrup admits to a set. Bill That's a start then. Anyone like to volunteer to make the patterns? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 That's a start then. Anyone like to volunteer to make the patterns? Oh yes, me, me, please sir me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Oh yes, me, me, please sir me. That sounds like a volunteer to me . When can you start Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 There is a drawing in the HMRS collection (I got a copy some years ago). More information is available on this link: http://www.hmrs.org....nfo.php?id=1528 An etched kit has been done in 7mm, currently available from Gladiator Models. Cheers, Eric. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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