iL Dottore Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Things have been quite busy as of late at Schloss iL Dottore, but I have managed to do some modelling... The current project on the workshop table is a 29 Lever McKenzie and Holland signal box with a stone base (locking room) for the same chaps I built the EoD. The pics... Scratch built base I used Wills embossed sheet and this particular type (dressed stone) was quite easy to work with. The cabin was also scratch built The framing I addedd (plastic strip) has now neatened out the corner Whilst waiting for the basic box construction to dry, I built the interior using the exact signalling plan provided to me by "i clienti" I made a mistake with the token instruments. They have now been resited and painted the correct colour. Obviously, I had to put in a cameo - this time the station cat eyeing the signalman's lunch with bad intent... The roof has been cut out and test fitted..Note how the plastic strip framing has neatened out the corners Since these photos have been taken, a lot more work has been completed (photos to follow) and I only have a few more steps to do (add guttering and downpipes, fix lightbar, fix roof and chimney, weather). As handover will be at ExpoEM, I have to get me skates on, so back to work... As always comments and critiques welcomed... F Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R A Watson Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Will it be posible to put it on some form of display during the Bracknell show? I would love to see this in the flesh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iL Dottore Posted May 8, 2011 Author Share Posted May 8, 2011 Will it be posible to put it on some form of display during the Bracknell show? I would love to see this in the flesh. I will ask "i clienti" Anyway, further progress pictures: As always, comments and critiques wanted F Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 8, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 8, 2011 As always, comments and critiques wanted F Well you did ask Lever handles and catch handles are bare steel (usually kept nice and shiny) so the brass/gold colour looks 'not right', the block shelf should be either gloss black or a much paler brown, standard WR practice was to paint the cupboards chocolate with the recessed panels cream with teh top black. The token machines would normally be next to each other at the stairs/door end of the 'box. I'm not sure what the things on the blockshelf are (I mean the unpainted castings as well - they've still got me a bit puzzled after years of looking at them). These pics - albeit on a preserved railway - are pretty true for WR colours (and you can just see the token machine in the corner of the third one) This last one is much more strongly lit and the transparency had probably faded a little but the colour of the lino on the floor is pretty accurate. Note in this case the block shelf is in the later varnished wood style. Hope these are useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iL Dottore Posted May 8, 2011 Author Share Posted May 8, 2011 Oh "£&&^***!"£$.. Thanks Mike, very useful but a bit late... Still, I might be able to something about the blockshelf, not sure about the cupboards, and as much as I would wish to repaint them, the levers are now unaccessible. On the positive side, these things can only be glimpsed through the windows, with token instruments one end, cat on table and block shelf obscuring much of the view. Furthermore - unless illuminated - very hard to see at normal viewing distances... F Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 On behalf of 'i clienti' ... Tim and I are really, really impressed with what we have seen so far and look forward eagerly to taking delivery! What some members may not realise is that the signal box and the famous Earl of Devon have been made in Switzerland. Packing them for safe passage to the UK will be a major logistical exercise and all concerned hope to goodness that some goon in border control doesn't blow them up. Public display - hmmm. I doubt that it will be feasible to open the packages at Bracknell and in any case they will not arrive till Sunday morning. However, 'i clienti' have a cunning plan which we will discuss with 'il buildero maestroso' separately. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted May 9, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2011 Not sure of the validity of having a spare lever reversed Granted it's only an impression through the window, but painting the frame correctly is one of my pet niggles but at least you haven't got distant levers spread liberally through the frame Nice model though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iL Dottore Posted May 9, 2011 Author Share Posted May 9, 2011 Not sure of the validity of having a spare lever reversed Granted it's only an impression through the window, but painting the frame correctly is one of my pet niggles but at least you haven't got distant levers spread liberally through the frame It must be an erroneous impression as there aren't any reversed levers (all have been inserted the same way 'round); the sequence and colours of the levers are correct (although the light blue isn't optimal); the only real error with the lever frame is that with the lever handles as they should be polished steel, instead of "brass". I do take the point about getting it right... so following the Statiomaster's post, I corrected all the errors of the interior except for the lever handles (which are now inaccessible ). So the cupboards are now in WR chocolate and cream with black tops and the blockshelf has been painted black. At the infamous "normal viewing distance" and glimpsed through the window, the interior will be more or less OK F p.s. However, I am pleased with the hungry Moggy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted May 9, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2011 It must be an erroneous impression as there aren't any reversed levers (all have been inserted the same way 'round); the sequence and colours of the levers are correct (although the light blue isn't optimal); the only real error with the lever frame is that with the lever handles as they should be polished steel, instead of "brass". Flavio "Reversed" means that the lever is "out of the frame" i.e. not sitting neatly in the row, but sitting forward, having been pulled by the signalling chappie. That's fine for red or yellow (signal), black (points), or blue (facing point lock) levers - but white levers are painted white because they do not have a function, they are spare, usually because their original function is no longer needed. In the scheme of things, no-one will ever see this, as you say. Even more important "i clienti" (Ferrari have a similarly-named organisation to look after theirs!) is satisfied, and that's all that matters! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iL Dottore Posted May 9, 2011 Author Share Posted May 9, 2011 "Reversed" means that the lever is "out of the frame" i.e. not sitting neatly in the row, but sitting forward, having been pulled by the signalling chappie. That's fine for red or yellow (signal), black (points), or blue (facing point lock) levers - but white levers are painted white because they do not have a function, they are spare, usually because their original function is no longer needed... Oh *瀣$?&&! Never thought of it that way... Still, one learns, one learns. A bit too late to redo everything, but it niggles at me. Although I have standard OO track for my layout (Shock!, Horror!), I try to follow the finescale ethos - do everything as accurately and as prototypically as possible, so this (the colours) is annoying... F Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Once more on behalf of 'i clienti' - 'Il buildero maestroso' did send us some work in progress pics a while back. While we spotted some minor details that were swiftly rectified, neither of us spotted the reversed spare lever. Maybe we did not spot the S&T technician with his oil can either. The trouble is that now all this wisdom has been unleashed on the readership of RMWeb there will be a far from orderly queue jostling to see what other c0ck-ups they can spot! That we have this wisdom is a credit to the members - Stationmaster, Beast and Oldddudders - who have proffered it. Thank you, gentry! Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted May 9, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2011 The trouble is that now all this wisdom has been unleashed on the readership of RMWeb there will be a far from orderly queue jostling to see what other c0ck-ups they can spot! I do hope not. This an absolutely gorgeous, unique model, from a very capable and talented builder. Clearly i clienti (and I!) are incapable of building anything so delicious, so i clienti remains very much ahead! Some of us have had the privilege of visiting a few quite a lot of signalboxes in the course of our duties, so some knowledge rubs off. Now, ask me about common-or-garden wagon underframe detail (among a zillion other railway features) and I'm all at sea! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 9, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2011 Once more on behalf of 'i clienti' - 'Il buildero maestroso' did send us some work in progress pics a while back. While we spotted some minor details that were swiftly rectified, neither of us spotted the reversed spare lever. Maybe we did not spot the S&T technician with his oil can either. The trouble is that now all this wisdom has been unleashed on the readership of RMWeb there will be a far from orderly queue jostling to see what other c0ck-ups they can spot! That we have this wisdom is a credit to the members - Stationmaster, Beast and Oldddudders - who have proffered it. Thank you, gentry! Chris Dunno about 'wisdom' - more a question of having been in the right place at the right time and happy to share info etc if it will help (or result in colourful language). However in the continued spirit of helping rather than hindering the frame is a Reading product (@12ins:1ft scale) and it was not unusual on the WR to have levers which had become 'spare' still worked in order to maintain the interlocking or sometimes, rather inconveniently, to have them bolted in the reverse position for similar reasons. So it could obviously be one of those and unlike some other lesser parts of the railway it was Western practice to paint worked spares in all-over white. So while it might be a little unusual it ain't wrong (mind you the normal practice was to shorten the lever handle if the lever needed to be worked to remind the Signalman that there was no weight on it so this one must be bolted reverse for some reason). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 p.s. However, I am pleased with the hungry Moggy I like that! Could be modelled on here! Ours spent the afternoon asleep on the desk! Not sure about the old Western Region but the LNE standard issue appears to be a black cat these days! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iL Dottore Posted May 9, 2011 Author Share Posted May 9, 2011 Dunno about 'wisdom' - more a question of having been in the right place at the right time and happy to share info etc if it will help (or result in colourful language). However in the continued spirit of helping rather than hindering the frame is a Reading product (@12ins:1ft scale) and it was not unusual on the WR to have levers which had become 'spare' still worked in order to maintain the interlocking or sometimes, rather inconveniently, to have them bolted in the reverse position for similar reasons. So it could obviously be one of those and unlike some other lesser parts of the railway it was Western practice to paint worked spares in all-over white. So while it might be a little unusual it ain't wrong (mind you the normal practice was to shorten the lever handle if the lever needed to be worked to remind the Signalman that there was no weight on it so this one must be bolted reverse for some reason). Phew, saved by the Bell! You'll be pleased to know that I have repainted the cupboards and shelving, leaving only the lever handles incorrectly coloured. Obviously, I must not have read the springside instructions correctly and why my eyes did not register that in the colour photos of lever frames (and I collected quite a number as part of my research) the handles were steel... Obviously, and for some obscure reason, polished brass and GWR/WR have become inexorably and inevitably linked in my mind - hence the foul-up! F Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Nice work, Doctor. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 9, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2011 Phew, saved by the Bell! You'll be pleased to know that I have repainted the cupboards and shelving, leaving only the lever handles incorrectly coloured. Obviously, I must not have read the springside instructions correctly and why my eyes did not register that in the colour photos of lever frames (and I collected quite a number as part of my research) the handles were steel... Obviously, and for some obscure reason, polished brass and GWR/WR have become inexorably and inevitably linked in my mind - hence the foul-up! F I forgot to mention that the bells are the wrong colour as well (however frequently and very well cleaned ones could have the plating worn away and at least some examples appear to have been made of brass so don't bother to repaint them). It really is a smashing job - definitely captured a 'westernisation of McKenzie & Holland' appearance very well and the locking room windows are a delight (not that the rest of it is to be ignored but I was really taken by them - absolutely spot on for a couple of 'boxes I knew) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted May 9, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2011 It really is a smashing job - definitely captured a 'westernisation of McKenzie & Holland' appearance very well and the locking room windows are a delight (not that the rest of it is to be ignored but I was really taken by them - absolutely spot on for a couple of 'boxes I knew)[/i] Well said, Mike. As for the colour of the levers, Redhill "B" box, which was very busy, and looked after the 3-way junction at the south of Redhill, Surrey, station, was alleged to have (I never had cause to enter) lever tops that were rusty, probably due to inadequate use of the traditional signalman's duster. "You need a tetanus jab before going in there" was one quote I recall. So let's assume that even the mighty GWR employed some unkempt, beatnik-y signalmen, and the lever condition was less than perfect! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 10, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 10, 2011 Well said, Mike. As for the colour of the levers, Redhill "B" box, which was very busy, and looked after the 3-way junction at the south of Redhill, Surrey, station, was alleged to have (I never had cause to enter) lever tops that were rusty, probably due to inadequate use of the traditional signalman's duster. "You need a tetanus jab before going in there" was one quote I recall. So let's assume that even the mighty GWR employed some unkempt, beatnik-y signalmen, and the lever condition was less than perfect! Alas we did have some of those Signalmen but if I mentioned any names it might rise an eyebrow or three. Most Western 'boxes I knew over the years were well kept but some were difficult to keep clean (the flat roofed 'ARP'design was a cleaning disaster area especially when the stove was in use - for some reason those boxes got very dirty very quickly even with good resident Signalmen in charge). Occasionally you would come across a 'box which was in an amazing state of cleanliness where you would only be allowed in if you took-off your shoes or boots first and where PWay staff or locomen etc carrying out Rule 55/Section K would have to stand at the top of the stairs and have the TRB brought to them I had one quite busy 'box which was very well looked after by the 3 regular men - it even had the treadplates on the 'frame black-leaded once every 3 weeks - and the S&T decided to renew the lino much to the chagrin of the Signalmen. The 'box reeked of paraffin for several weeks while the Signalmen worked hard to get the natural oil out of the lino but eventually they triumphed and began to get the lino up to their former standard. Two of these chaps later wound up in one of my busiest 'boxes with nearly 100 levers to keep them occupied and they turned it from a 'slightly grubby' 'box into one most Signalmen would be proud of - but they were using three times as much cleaning materials as it had previously ordered, great days alas all gone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iL Dottore Posted May 10, 2011 Author Share Posted May 10, 2011 I forgot to mention that the bells are the wrong colour as well ... Oh bother... ... and what (he asks through gritted teeth) is the *%&?+* right colour.?... F p.s. All joking aside, what colour were the bells in GWR/WR days? I would like to know for future reference p.p.s. teaser photo (or photos) of finished signal box will be posted Thursday evening Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 10, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 10, 2011 Oh bother... ... and what (he asks through gritted teeth) is the *%&?+* right colour.?... F p.s. All joking aside, what colour were the bells in GWR/WR days? I would like to know for future reference p.p.s. teaser photo (or photos) of finished signal box will be posted Thursday evening Look at my second and third pics down and you should be able to pick them out fairly easily on the block shelf - if you want more detail I'll get one of mine out and take a pic. They were dull plated although these have a bright chrome plating (enlarged views of blockshelves below) but in my experience they went very dull grey if not kept clean - if you want a more careworn example let me know and I'll take a pic of mine. I think this style was described as Tall Dome but am not certain, 'Church' in the lower pic should be fairly obvious. Alas i haven't got a picture of a 'Cow' style block bell but they had flat ends and flat tapered sides with a sharp radius curve at the top. Flat dome and Dome are fairly obvious shapes. You should never find two bells of the same shape on a block shelf (although that could at times have been difficult, e.g one of the Bristol Temple Meads 'boxes had 14 block bells but the sound could be changed by 'slugging' the bell with a piece of lead (or even chewing gum should you so wish). PS I have no more comments on colours Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iL Dottore Posted May 10, 2011 Author Share Posted May 10, 2011 Look at my second and third pics down and you should be able to pick them out fairly easily on the block shelf - if you want more detail I'll get one of mine out and take a pic. They were dull plated although these have a bright chrome plating (enlarged views of blockshelves below) but in my experience they went very dull grey if not kept clean Thanks for the close-ups Mike, much easier to suss out the bell finishes in the close-up than in the original photos. I'll let you know if, in future, I'll need such detailed pics (who knows? I might move into 7mm building construction) Now that I have a lot of realy great information about signalbox interiors (and I want to thank everyone who chimed in with information, the signal box obviously rang a bell for many and ap-pealed to their helpful natures, certainly an aspect of RMWeb I treasure) , I am almost tempted to bin the entire signalbox and start again; not that i clienti would let me but I am annoyed with myself at having missed such elementary things such as the lever handles (and I had the d****d photos in my files as well). Well I better stop now that I am in the frame and that the relevant information is ready to hand and not someplace distant. .... Off to slosh more paint on the signalbox F Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Nevard Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Captured at ExpoEm yesterday (with background chopped away) thanks to Chris Foren of this parish who dragged me around to see them - and it was worth it too. iL Dottore PM me if you want the full res files to do what you wish with.... those levers look fine to me.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Having been named and not shamed, I should like to thank and congratulate Flavio [iL Dottore] once more and fulsomely, not only for making these fine buildings to what was at times he must have found a demanding specification but for bringing them personally from beautiful downtown Basel to ExpoEM. I dread to think what might have happened if they had been entrusted to the postal service! Chris Nevard was not the only person I dragged round to see them! One in particular was very impressed and had an interesting conversation with 'il buildero maestroso' which I had better leave him to explain one day. For those who weren't there, we are working on arranging a public appearance ... Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iL Dottore Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 Chris, you've made silk purses out of these Sow's ears with those pics... Very nice photos. Have you done fashion photography - turning ugly ducklings into Supermodels? F Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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