China clay slurry wagons before the 'bullets'

[TomJ]

Forgive me of I'm posting in the wrong forum, I wasn't sure if this was for prototype or help/advice.

 

I'm building a n gauge china clay works and have built a small slurry loading point but have no wagons for it! It's set in the mid 80s so I believe this is too early for Dapols excellent 'silver bullets'. So what wagons were used before this and any advice on what's a good starting point for a wagon conversion.

Using Paul Bartletts website and John Vaughans books (both excellent sources of info) I've come across the Bowater tankers that were classed TTAs but they seem very different from the oil tank TTAs that Farish make. Also I've seen reference to TUA wagons ex caustic soda but the TUAs I've seen pics of seem different to the caustic soda ones. Are there any other ones I've missed and are there any ones that are easy to convert from Farish or Peco tank wagons? I'm more interested in making a likeness than an exact copy.

 

Thanks in advance for all your help!

[eastwestdivide]

Inveresk Paper and Tullis Russell (spelling?) ring a bell - was one of them blue tanks of some kind? Not got access to my notes/photos right now.

[Karhedron]

I assume you mean these ones?

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/stsclaylinertta

 

Hornby did a 00 model many years ago but I am not aware of anything RTR or kit in N gauge.

 

Rods_of_Revolution of this parish has made some in N gauge using 3D printing. I suggest contacting him as he may be able to produce some more for you or advise how to do it.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/blog/689/entry-5415-penwithick-rolling-stock-1/

[hmrspaul]

Inveresk Paper and Tullis Russell (spelling?) ring a bell - was one of them blue tanks of some kind? Not got access to my notes/photos right now.

This is the Inveresk one http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/paulbartlettsrailwaywagonphotographs/e3118f79

 

Another type is numerous in here http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/ferryecctank The Peco underframe could be used but...

 

The ex Caustic soda wagons are quite well illustrated on the site as http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/paulbartlettsrailwaywagonphotographs/e2d12ab50

and http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/paulbartlettsrailwaywagonphotographs/e2608f2ca

 

As others, I don't think there is anything which is easily used in 2mm.

 

Have you looked at European wagons? Quite a number of small batches of bogie clay tanks were European in origin - search my site for "China Clay" throws up a lot of different wagons.

 

Regards

 

Paul Bartlett

[TomJ]

Thanks for the advice everyone. Lots of good info and pictures, but it doesn't look easy for 2mm. Maybe the slurry tanks will have to go on the back burner for a while

[BernardTPM]

There's a new chemical tanker kit coming from the N Gauge Society in kit form that has a smaller barrel like the Bowaters slurry tanks and will come with both rounded and conical ends. I could provide a useful base for one.

In the past, 'Poole' Farish did a Tullis Russell variant of their PGA with a swing top roof. Not 100% accurate, but could be improved with a little work if you can find them.

[TomJ]

Thanks BernardTPM, that's hugely helpful. I'd seen the info about it in the journal but somehow forgot to consider it. I think the kit comes with a Farish TTA for donor chassis, would this be a suitable underframe for the slurry tank?

Also thanks for the details of the Farish Tullis wagon, something to keep my eye out for. Mind you I remember some drawings of them in an old RM so I'll dig them out and see if surgery to a PGA is possible.

The variety of clay wagons is very appealing but also makes life a little more difficult!

[hmrspaul]

Thanks BernardTPM, that's hugely helpful. I'd seen the info about it in the journal but somehow forgot to consider it. I think the kit comes with a Farish TTA for donor chassis, would this be a suitable underframe for the slurry tank?

Also thanks for the details of the Farish Tullis wagon, something to keep my eye out for. Mind you I remember some drawings of them in an old RM so I'll dig them out and see if surgery to a PGA is possible.

The variety of clay wagons is very appealing but also makes life a little more difficult!

Photographs of both types of Tullis PGAs here. http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/tullisrussellpaa

 

Paul Bartlett

[BernardTPM]

I'd seen the info about it in the journal but somehow forgot to consider it. I think the kit comes with a Farish TTA for donor chassis, would this be a suitable underframe for the slurry tank?

Yes; Tri-ang Hornby did a basic, but fairly accurate 00 rendition of one on the 'Blue' grain hopper chassis around 1970. Oddly enough they didn't do the TTA until about 1973! The Peco 15' w.b. chassis would also be suitable, but the new Farish version is better detailed and has more accurate brake rigging.

[hmrspaul]

the new Farish version is better detailed and has more accurate brake rigging.

This is likely to be only accurate for one wagon manufacturer. The main builders - Chas Roberts, Pickering, Metro Cammell, Powell Duffryn all had differences in their brake rigging.

 

Paul Bartlett

[BernardTPM]

True, Paul, but the Peco chassis simply repeats the same detail both sides, whereas the Farish is correctly handed. To be fair to Peco, they did originally tool it way back in the mid/late 1960s when they really were 'modern image' and for the time it was good with the brake shoes in line with the wheel treads, but standards have moved on since then.

[Stoker]

There were so many types of slurry tanker before they were standardised, you'd be quite surprised how many passed under the radar. These included sulphuric acid/hydrochloric acid tankers, VTG tankers, crosfield bogie tanks, RIV bogie tanks, CAIB 2 axle tanks, and a small fleet of forerunners to the "banana" silver bullet tanks that were painted silver and another batch painted blue.

 

EDIT: For the information of Kevin Smith, a non-copyright registered photograph published on the internet, where no purchase was necessary to view it, may be reproduced elsewhere without permission under what is called "fair use" for the purposes of education/research (considered a transformative use), provided that no profit was made in doing so. Just what did you expect to achieve by complaining anyway? The photographs you removed are now no longer available to view and download from your own website, so they now do not exist anywhere online for people to see. Who is to benefit from that? What was your purpose of making that complaint? Did you post the photos to the internet specifically to claim some sort of perverse credit and glory for having taken them, or did you wish to further expand your hobby and enthusiasm for the railways? You weren't charging for them, neither was I, so other than the fact that I failed to give you credit or ask your permission (on the internet, lol) what precisely was your problem? Your copyright complaint is contrary to the spirit of copyright law, and contrary to the spirit of enthusiasts sharing images with other enthusiasts without anyone making any profit.

 

If anyone is interested in the various types of wagon used for carrying china clay slurry, you can do so on Paul Bartlett's fantastic website. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/paulbartlettsrailwaywagons

 

 

[The Fatadder]

Does anyone have any dimensions on the ex caustic soda ttas?

 

I’m thinking of building some but I am rathe lacking in dimensions, espically for the tank barrel.

 

I assume the length of chassis is as per a fuel TTA (with some clearly on pedestal suspension

[hmrspaul]

There were so many types of slurry tanker before they were standardised, you'd be quite surprised how many passed under the radar. These included sulphuric acid/hydrochloric acid tankers, VTG tankers, crosfield bogie tanks, RIV bogie tanks, CAIB 2 axle tanks, and a small fleet of forerunners to the "banana" silver bullet tanks that were painted silver and another batch painted blue.

 

 

 

If anyone is interested in the various types of wagon used for carrying china clay slurry, you can do so on Paul Bartlett's fantastic website. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/paulbartlettsrailwaywagons

 

This is a better search for these varied wagons http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=china%20clay

 

Dimensions should be on diagrams on the Barrowmore site.

 

Paul

[Flood]

Does anyone have any dimensions on the ex caustic soda ttas?

 

I’m thinking of building some but I am rathe lacking in dimensions, espically for the tank barrel.

 

I assume the length of chassis is as per a fuel TTA (with some clearly on pedestal suspension

Do you mean TTAs or TUAs? It is the TUAs that have Gloucester Floating Axle suspension.

 

The ex caustic soda TTAs were diagram TT072D (for those with parabolic springs) as below:

 

 

 

The ex caustic soda TUAs were diagram TU013A as below:

 

 

 

Neither of these two diagrams give the diameter of the barrel but you do have the overall width including the ladders so that will give you a general idea. Paul Bartlett has a number of photos on his site, follow the link he gave above.

 

For comparison purposes the approximate diagram for the Bachmann TTA is as per below:

 

 

 

Footnote: The 1990 Metro Enterprises book on Private Owner Wagons (vol 2, rail tanks) states that the TTAs were working to and from Quidhampton to various locations and between Cornwall and Warrington (although by 1990 out of the 12 remaining all but 51635, 51636, 51642, 51644, 51645 and 51647 were stored).

The TUAs are stated as working either between Burngullow and Mossend (those hired to Inveresk) or between Burngullow and Aberdeen (those hired to ECC). It doesn't state which wagons were hired to which operator.