GreenDiesel001 Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 I hope this is the correct area to post a comment about P & P charges. Recently I wanted a Peco point that I couldn't buy locally. I searched the web including ebay. A new one was bought for an acceptable "Buy it Now" price off ebay with a P & P charge of £0.99p. When I looked at retailer suppliers through the web the average P & P charges was about £3.50 unless I spent a fortune with them. I did ask one retailer, whose price was more than I eventually paid for it and with a P & P charge of £3.50, if, for just this item, they would offer a better P & P they simply replied "no" and that another retailers P & P costs were £4.00. Now I am not against fair P & P charges but do object to them being used as a means of significantly increasing the retailers profit margins. It is quite common to see excessively high P & P charges on ebay but then I won't bid on these items. Just my little gripe. Regards, Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Belgian Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 One of the reasons high(ish) P&P charges are made on e-bay is that they don't charge their final value fees on the P&P. This should mean that both the seller and buyer benefit whilst e-bay loses a little bit. Anybody who doesn't take the P&P charge into account when bidding needs their head examining! JE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted May 18, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 18, 2011 Most retailers have a set charge for cheaper smaller items you end up subsidising those larger heavier items. This makes it easier for the retailer and customer (not having to work out how much the cost of postage will be). This doesn't make it less galling having to pay the same postage for a very light n gauge wagon than someone would have to pay for a reasonably heavy OO loco. Most retailers will also factor in the cost of someone having to go to the post office and to sort out the orders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted May 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 18, 2011 For me a trip to my nearest (decent) model shop is going to cost £5 in petrol plus parking - so 3 or 4 quid for postage, packing materials and someone's time to pack item and organise collection is well worth it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cb900f Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Trouble is Phil the 3-4 pound is now starting to rise. I purchased an item from e bay on a Wednesday, the postal charge was 6.95. No complaint as I was prepared to pay it and it was express delivery by some company or other. The item arrived the following Monday.The distance for delivery approx 50 miles. I purchased an item from the RM Showcase 3.00 postage Royal mail and it arrived the very next day. Distance for delivery approx 200 miles. So yes to the OP, sellers are starting to load up the postage Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 If I consider an ebay seller trying a fast one on the P&P I simply report them to ebay. I think the cheating on P&P that goes on does no one any favour other than the seller. I actually think ebay should make everyone sell on ebay with a postage inclusive price. I know that view upsets many sellers but it is just the only real way to stop the abuse. A slight reduction in fees could be made to compensate. On the other hand I do appreciate that P&P is not just postage. I do expect to pay for postage, good packaging (not a reused tatty envelope), and a certain contribution to the time taken to pack with care and to get the item in the hands of the post office. £3-£5 is certainly not unreasonable for a point maybe £5-£7.50 for a loco, and perhaps a minimum of £1.50 for a lightweight kit/magazine. As Phil says a trip to a nearest model shop is now expensive in petrol, parking fees, and not forgetting my valuable time possibly better spent on some other activity. Besides, when I visit a model shop I find myself buying far more than I intended. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-CRS Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Unfortunatly RM prices went up alot this year. The weid fact is some items are cheaper to send to France than 5 miles down the road. 1 Dapol N gauge wagon costs same as 2or3 wagons to any where in the UK but would be cheaper if sent to France than sending 2. It is very difficult to work out how much to charge, I think mine are okay. They only other way is to weigh every item add percentage for packing, then set up a system go calculate live every order. This would not work well as size aslo comes into play. Flat kits will be cheaper than a lighter bulky item. It is all a night mare to work out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 It would take me half an hour to go to the post office. Shall we say £25 an hour? Cardboard box, bubble wrap, sticky tape? A £ or 2 should cover it. Frigtening ain't it? ....and I havn't bought a stamp yet. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Ava_Hay Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Anybody who trades enough on E Bay becomes very ( and painfully ) aware of the cost of post and packing, the time consumed in both loading goods onto the site and then sorting, packaging and actually posting them whereas selling the items retail in a shop or even mail order from an independent website is so much better and indeed profitable. I would suggest that 90% of the aggravation that comes from Internet sales, E Bay included, is the delivery of the item to the end user. If you then factor in the hassle caused by the cheating and lying that goes on on both sides albeit in the minority, it is little wonder that a lot of E Bay sellers are retreating. I have noticed a fairly dramatic drop in E Bay private sellers as well and recent items I have offered have been without visitors let alone any bids. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Members here may not be aware of the cull of Ebay sellers that has taken place these last few months. Any seller with a Detailed Seller Rating of less than 4.7 (and remember a rating of 4 is described as Good in Ebay's own words, 5 is the maximum) is likely to be first restricted as to number of items they can list to sell, and then suspended if they cannot get their ratings up to 4.7 Large numbers have sellers have been banned from selling permanently recently for failing to maintain this score ffor postage charges and delivery times. It's a brave seller who persists in charging much above stamp prices and risks getting less than 5 stars feedback for postage charges just now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted May 18, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 18, 2011 If I'm reading the OP correctly he's complaining about most retailer's blanket charge of around 4 quid, not eBay. I would think from a retailer perspective, given that they are running businesses, is that the time (and hence money)taken to process a 10 qiud order are much the same as a 1000 quid order*, so it make sense to charge 'one size fits all' postage. Given that all the big names charge much the same prices then it seems likely that it's a realistic charge. * time entering the order on the books, packing time and materials, postage charge, time to send package, cost to process payment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 and recent items I have offered have been without visitors let alone any bids. Usually a very good indication of too high a starting price (expectation). It is a fact of auction life that if the starting price is set high bidders do not present themselves, but as a starting price is lowered more bidders show an interest and the hammer price frequently ends well above the starting price. An auction really only works if there are two or more parties interested in bidding. The problem with ebay is that it was set up with the idea that a seller could dispose of an unwanted possession by auctioning it rather than throwing it away. Then ebay realised that there were traders out there who could use the sote to set up internet "shops" selling new items worldwide. The charity shops also cottoned on to the idea and the second hand dealers. Ebay found that more and more transactions were from traders, to the point where it probably meets the 80:20 rule of 80% of their business is done with 20% of their sellers (the traders). It would not surprise me if ebay in its current form simply evolves into a trader only portal and the independent seller (who by now has probably disposed of all they junk) is locked out altogether. This will certainly go towards removing most of the distasteful profiteering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 I can understand what the opening poster is on about. You have to shop around & there is reasonable value available if you look for it. I recently bought a peco large radius point from a retailer at a very good price & postage was £1.50 & that's to Ireland. I was also quoted various P & P charges from £3.50 up to £5 elsewhere for the same item. At another retailer I bought over £40 worth of Wills scenic products & he gave me free postage. I can also understand a retailers or sellers time is valuable & packing materials don't come cheap. If I think someone is hiking up the p & p I simply pass. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Maybe ebay ought to provide some guide as to the ratings that should be left if they are using them to cap people with. Just left 4/5 for postage on an item (and nearly put it as 3/5) as the total P&P charge was only a few pence under £2 more than the actual postage. Taking the wrapping (paper and bubblewrap in this instance) into account and time spent I would have been happy to give 5/5 with a £1 more than the postage and that I suspect is more generous than many would leave in my experience where charging just 18p more than the postage has left me with a very low rating being given by the purchaser. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Ava_Hay Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Usually a very good indication of too high a starting price (expectation). Perhaps on the first run but I re-listed them at 99p starting and didn't do any better. Basically the items weren't worth the cost of the postage. The only one that went was 99p with free postage and that is what it went for. Then the buyer wanted to send a cheque because their Paypal account was 'temporarily suspended' or some such tosh. It is this dumbing down that disappoints and since I have had a recent series of such disappointments both buying and selling and my local dealer friend has given up as well........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted May 18, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 18, 2011 If I think the p&p for an e-bay item is excessive for what it is I don't bid. As I've accepted the cost is reasonable I give 5/5 for p&p, even if it's more than the postage alone. Not every seller has a pile of re-usable bubble wrap & padded envelopes to hand, they have to buy them in. Also I don't begrudge payment for packaging when the seller has assembled a box to fit the goods from other boxes and parcel tape. Regarding the issue of postage on small single items from shops etc, I only buy small items in batches, usually for little more than the postage cost of one item. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Perhaps on the first run but I re-listed them at 99p starting and didn't do any better. Basically the items weren't worth the cost of the postage. One of my regular scans of ebay is for the auction items with zero bids - and have picked up a few "bargains" over the years. But if the item is only worth the postage+99p then considering the item is relatively "worthless" to the seller there doesn't seem to be any point in auctioning it. Unless, that is, you were hoping that it might go for £10 or more. I can never quite understand why anyone bothers selling something on ebay for less than £10, with all the effort required the "profit" for the time expended seems a bit like voluntary work, all very laudable but will not put food on your table. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 It would take me half an hour to go to the post office. Shall we say £25 an hour? £25 per hour?! May I ask which planet you reside on? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 "Buy it Now" price off ebay with a P & P charge of £0.99p. When I looked at retailer suppliers through the web the average P & P charges was about £3.50 unless I spent a fortune with them. Did you look at the actual postage cost of the ebay item, when it arrived? I find many sellers undercharge for their P&P When I sell on ebay I weigh the item then work out what the actual postage cost is Online retailers tend to charge a flat rate, but once you spend over a specific amount the P&P charge ceases which I personally consider as unfair For one set of points it is £4 yet for ten sets of points it is nil However, it is difficult for online websites to offer a discount for large purchases, so removing the P&P charge is a fair trade off for them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 £25 per hour?! May I ask which planet you reside on? OK I should have been more realistic. I just put in a very low figure as an example. Had a car serviced recently or had to call a Plumber? Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted May 19, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 19, 2011 I can never quite understand why anyone bothers selling something on ebay for less than £10, with all the effort required the "profit" for the time expended seems a bit like voluntary work, all very laudable but will not put food on your table. Could be down to some people preferring to see an item reused rather than just turning it into our ever growing mountain of rubbish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted May 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 19, 2011 I can never quite understand why anyone bothers selling something on ebay for less than £10, with all the effort required the "profit" for the time expended seems a bit like voluntary work, all very laudable but will not put food on your table. I must admit to wondering about this too - I'm one of those people for whom ebay, and in particular ebay shops, is my starting point when I want to buy something, not just model railway items. One stop browsing and of course the ease of Paypal is this lazy man's idea of shopping. Anyway, the 1 amp fuse on my Powercab blew - straight into ebay, found 10 for £1.34 including postage. This was from an ebay shop too, not a private seller. I just don't see who makes a profit on that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 £25 per hour?! May I ask which planet you reside on? Not everyone is on a minimum wage. For some, £25/hr is very low compared to their normal "consulting" fee and although it could be argued that they should not get paid for leisure time - their time does have a value, and that value should be accounted for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted May 19, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 19, 2011 Many retailers give one a tariff of charges from the cheapest (slowest) to expensive (quickest), others have a standard charge for everything which is usually not unreasonable. I sent a loco off to Hornby some time back for repair, sadly it needed three or four trips at £7 a time one way. Without any prompting a little while later Hornby refunded all my postage, bloody good service. I find that small items from some retailers are wrapped in a small bag and sent post free which is very good too. There is a variation in prices but if I can get a loco £30 cheaper from a box shifter than my local shop then a few quid postage is worth it. You pays yer money etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenDiesel001 Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 Hi. Not wishing to continue this topic for too long but just an update. The item has been delivered by post this morning. It is in a 13 x 9 padded envelope with a "Large 1st class stamp". I only ordered it yesterday morning. I call that very good service at a realistic but possibly, arguably, a slightly too low P & P charge. It has been interesting to read contributors input. Thanks, Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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