Bachmann 2-EPB Photo Review

[Lyddrail]

Just to confirm SR EMUs don't have dropable buckeye couplings (except MLVs), they are fixed in the operating postion. Only dropable buckeyes were on locos.

 

Well done to Bachmann on replacing the bodies on the blue EPB.

 

Cheers.

[kintbury jon]

Reading Bachmann's reply again I assume the original bodies will not be recalled. If there's anyone here that wishes to sell their incorrect bodies to me, please PM me, i'd be very interested!

 

 

[Ceptic]

Just to confirm SR EMUs don't have dropable buckeye couplings (except MLVs), they are fixed in the operating postion. Only dropable buckeyes were on locos.

 

Well done to Bachmann on replacing the bodies on the blue EPB.

 

Cheers.

 

With respect, Lyddrail.

 

I'm doing a bit of nit pickin' here and probably getting into deep water, by asking the the question.. " How far back are you going ?".

 

SR & BR(S) locos, steam, diesel, electric (incl. Cl.71), and SR emus, were never (?) equipped with drop-head buckeyes.

It was the mainstay of the SR's main-line, loco hauled, Maunsell & Bulleid coaching stock that were so fitted.

Later, this feature (+ buffing plates) was carried forward onto the BR Bulleid profile EP units, and the later BR Mk.1 Emus, Demus, Cl.74s, 33/1s & 73s. As far as I'm aware, these couplings had the drop-head capability, although, they were, mainly, in the raised position.

 

Cheers

[Gulliver]

All of the SR EMUs I worked on had retractable buffers and and drop head buffers.

 

There are pictures showing this here

 

http://www.semgonline.com/gallery/class415_7.html

 

As previously stated it was not common for the buffers to be extended and the buckeye to be in the dropped position unless it was a loco.

[Southernman46]

All of the SR EMUs I worked on had retractable buffers and and drop head buffers.

 

There are pictures showing this here

 

http://www.semgonline.com/gallery/class415_7.html

 

As previously stated it was not common for the buffers to be extended and the buckeye to be in the dropped position unless it was a loco.

 

 

Agreed - have almost killed myself a few times when at SG putting these things up and down. The intermediate buckeyes were non-drop though.

 

and don't forget the red emergency screw coupling in the guards van.

 

As proof - witness the many photos of CEPs,VEPs,CIG's EPB's being dragged away for scrap by Class 37's 47's 56's WITHOUT the need for a barrier vehicle of any kind.

[Bulleidnutter]

Jumping in with kintbury jon, Any unwanted bodies after this early mistake. Please PM me. Many SR EMU projects are on the horizon.

Ta

[Lyddrail]

Yes,I am wrong regards drop head buckeyes, got them confused with fixed intermediate couplings. Well it has been over 25 years since I worked in Chart Leacon.

 

Cheers.

[Ceptic]

Agreed - have almost killed myself a few times when at SG putting these things up and down. The intermediate buckeyes were non-drop though.

 

 

Aye.

'Driver's Handbook, 1957 Stock,.( I.e. 4-CEPs..The only one I've got to hand). Full preparation, Single Unit,'

 

Para.1.... At the LEADING end, check :-

 

1.2 'The Buckeye is raised, and the Buffers are retracted'.

 

And,again

.

Para.5......Alight from the opposite side of the cab, and, at the REAR end of the train, CHECK:-

 

5.1 'The Buckeye is raised, and the Buffers are retracted'.

 

Posted with a sympathetic ..."Oooh, Me flippin' Back"

 

Cheers.

[Ceptic]

With respect to the numbering issue on the blue 2EPB Dennis Lovett at Bachmann has just issued the following.

 

 

 

 

After thinking this through, I'm a little perturbed by Bachmann's response.

Why didn't they recall the product ?, as in the case of their Std. Cl.5 No. 73050 (Cat. No. 32-507), and remembering Hornby's answer to their Maunsell coach tampo printing error.

I'm thinking, their (Bachmann's) request for 'Proof of Purchase' only, may lead to the 'Unscruplous, with the disposable funds', buying quantities of these models , with the intention of gaining free replacement bodies, in the process.

 

Just a thought...I hope I'm wrong.

 

Regards.

[The Evil Bus Driver]

Yes,I am wrong regards drop head buckeyes, got them confused with fixed intermediate couplings. Well it has been over 25 years since I worked in Chart Leacon.

 

Cheers.

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/5385745142/in/set-72157603648747922

[phil-b259]

All of the SR EMUs I worked on had retractable buffers and and drop head buffers.

 

There are pictures showing this here

 

http://www.semgonline.com/gallery/class415_7.html

 

As previously stated it was not common for the buffers to be extended and the buckeye to be in the dropped position unless it was a loco.

 

With respect I think some confusion has set in with regards the term "SR" i.e. between the Southern Railway and British Railways Southern Region.

 

With respect to the latter, yes all Mk1 derived EMU stock and the EPBs were fitted with retractable buffers and drop head buckeyes, as were the 73s and 33/1s (but not the 71s)

 

The Southern railway built electric stock however did not use buckeyes (initally because much of it was converted steam hauled compartment stock) although even later new build units such as the "Brighton Belle" used screw couplings throughout. The 4COR units may have been the first to have buckeyes within the set although even here the outer ends were fitted with traditional screw couplings only.

 

As others have said this is suprising because the Southern Railway was very quick to adopt buckeye couplers for their new main line steam hauled coaching stock, yet seamed to have an aversion to its use on new build EMUs

[phil gollin]

.

 

First, were all the types of 2- and 4-EPB equipped with drop head buckeyes at their outer ends ?

 

Second, when the inner ends (single central buffer or no buffers) needed to be moved did they need a special buffer vehicle ? And if so has anyone any details ?

 

Third, I PRESUME that the retractable buffers were the same as coach stock where the buffers were manually drawn out and semi-circular spacer collars placed on the exposed shanks ?

 

Thanks.

 

.

[eastwestdivide]

Second, when the inner ends (single central buffer or no buffers) needed to be moved did they need a special buffer vehicle ? And if so has anyone any details ?

There were some single buffer match wagons, converted SR parcel vans, e.g. http://www.departmentals.com/photo/975548 and http://www.departmentals.com/departmental/975672

[Pennine MC]

 

I'm thinking, their (Bachmann's) request for 'Proof of Purchase' only, may lead to the 'Unscruplous, with the disposable funds', buying quantities of these models , with the intention of gaining free replacement bodies, in the process.

 

 

Doesnt really make any difference though, does it. Bachmann will produce a certain amount of replacement bodies, their potential 'liability' is the same no matter who owns the models.

[Southernman46]

There were some single buffer match wagons, converted SR parcel vans, e.g. http://www.departmentals.com/photo/975548 and http://www.departmentals.com/departmental/975672

 

 

 

Oooo - I can feel a project coming on with a 2-EPB replacement body etc......

 

 

It might also be of interest that the method of coupling the single buffer end of these vans to the defective EMU coach was via the screw coupling - the method of connecting non-corridor Southern Region EMU's was by 3-link coupling with the single buffer providing the cushion (corridor stock used buck-eyes). The length of the buffer shank exposed between the body and head being 2 & 7/8" inches or "the width of a fag packet Son !" as I was taught at SG Repair shop. The three link coupling was held at either end by a very large nut assembly that required the BIGGEST socket wrench I've ever seen to remove / do up. I'm sure someone out there can provide some more technical detail regarding all this.

[phil gollin]

.

 

Thanks, that makes sense for the inner end that had the central buffer.

 

However, for those vehicles with the central rubbing pad, presumably there was some sort of central buffer which was droppable on the match vehicle and which could be raised to tow and space the EMU vehicle ? (And PRESUMABLY the match vehicle had some sort of retractable buffers such that it could work in ordinary service ?)

 

.

[Electrostar]

Can someone explain why these units had a central buffer rather than two buffers as per other stock? I didn't even know that was the correct term but it used to intrigue me no end as a child at Victoria station.

[Electrostar]

PS - I am right in thinking the central buffer is the device between two inner coaches or is that the central rubbing pad? Sorry for my lack of knowledge, the EPB has brought back lots of memories.

[Ceptic]

With respect I think some confusion has set in with regards the term "SR" i.e. between the Southern Railway and British Railways Southern Region.

Snip.....

With respect to the latter, yes all Mk1 derived EMU stock and the EPBs were fitted with retractable buffers and drop head buckeyes, as were the 73s and 33/1s (but not the 71s)

The 4COR units may have been the first to have buckeyes within the set although even here the outer ends were fitted with traditional screw couplings only.

......Snip

 

 

Not only confusion regarding SR and BR(S) timescales, but also types of couplings / buffers used.

Clarifying my previous post, # 53.

The EMU fitted drophead buckeyes, along with rubbing / buffing plates and BR pattern, retractable, side buffers*, were first introduced in 1951 on the Bulleid profile, shorter underframed 4-EPB units, at the outer ends only. Not the 2-EPB / 2-HAPs as previously thought.*

Prior to this, ex-SR (Southern Railway) units were fitted with self-contained, heavy duty, non retractable side buffers*. Again, fitted to the suburban and semi-fast units' outer ends only.(Also retro-fitted to replace earlier types*) Inner ends were, again, centre buffered, and screw-linked coupled.

The SR express units, i.e. 5-BEL / 6-CIT / 6-PUL / 6-PAN & 4-COR used a suspended type of gangway connection. Not a true Pullman type, with the usual buckeye. These units were screw-linked coupled and fitted with the heavy duty s/c side buffers* on both the outer and inner ends.

 

I have to agree, the more one delves into details, the more complicated an answer can become.

 

Cheers.

 

*Pics to follow, once I get the scanner sorted, again!!

 

Now sorted.

Then preserved Bulleid, 1951 built, 62' underframed, 4-EPB No. 5001.

 

 

Ex-Bulleid style 2-EPB, on ex-2-NOL 62' u/frame with Buckeye, rubbing / buffing plate and BR buffers.

 

Preserved 4-COR No.3131 with heavy-duty, self contained buffers. Also fitted at inner ends.

 

Preserved 4-SUB No.4732 coupled to preserved 2-BIL No.2090. The 4-SUB is carrying the h/d s/c buffers, whilst the 2-BIL still has the original, oblong shanked, flattened oval type, again, seen here.

 

*Edited to correct information and add pics.

[Glorious NSE]

Can someone explain why these units had a central buffer rather than two buffers as per other stock? I didn't even know that was the correct term but it used to intrigue me no end as a child at Victoria station.

 

I would presume that as there was no need to be able to couple the inner end of an EPB to anything else it didn't need to be compatible with normal stock.

 

I'm thinking, their (Bachmann's) request for 'Proof of Purchase' only, may lead to the 'Unscruplous, with the disposable funds', buying quantities of these models , with the intention of gaining free replacement bodies, in the process.

 

Or on a more positive note it either gives the purchaser of the original model or the purchaser of the redundant bodies a good source of kitbashing materiel...it has to make doing a 4EPB about a third cheaper for instance...

[The Fatadder]

Or on a more positive note it either gives the purchaser of the original model or the purchaser of the redundant bodies a good source of kitbashing materiel...it has to make doing a 4EPB about a third cheaper for instance...

 

Also makes doing one of the Sandite units a lot easier giving two DMB? bodies, getting very tempted to order one to do just this (although the thought of the probability of a ltd of one of these units puts me off.)

[ChrisH]

Who said all SR EMUs were the same?

 

To follow on from Ceptic's excellent summary, the first EMUs with buckeye couplers etc. were not the Bulleid 2HAPs and 2EPBs, they came out after the first BR std. types by about 5 years. The first unit were the 2EPBs (as Bachmann) and the prototype express units.

 

The SR pattern self contained buffers appeared on the SR express stock, the Bullied 4SUBs and on about half of the 2BILs. I believe the SR style EPB stock, which also had buckeyes, also had this type of buffer, but presumably a retractable version.

 

The intermediate buffer/drawgear arrangement on the suburban stock probably dates to pre 1923 and lasted right up to the end of slam door non corridor stock on the Southern Region. Power cars had a rubbing plate only, the DT vehicle in a two car had the buffer. On a 4 car set one TS had a buffer at one end and a rubbing plate at the other, the second TS had buffers at both ends (this was also the car that swapped the through jumper cables over from one side to the other).

 

BR design express and DEMU stock had buckeyes throughout.

 

Re the 4EPB from spare bodies, remember the BR 4EPBs had '57 equipment so all those roof conduits will have to go. There were a couple of sets formed from spares in the 1960s using 2EPB power cars, but unfortunately the TSs were Bullied types.

 

Chris

[Ceptic]

Who said all SR EMUs were the same?

 

To follow on from Ceptic's excellent summary, the first EMUs with buckeye couplers etc. were not the Bulleid 2HAPs and 2EPBs, they came out after the first BR std. types by about 5 years. The first unit were the 2EPBs (as Bachmann) and the prototype express units.

 

The SR pattern self contained buffers appeared on the SR express stock, the Bullied 4SUBs and on about half of the 2BILs. I believe the SR style EPB stock, which also had buckeyes, also had this type of buffer, but presumably a retractable version.

 

The intermediate buffer/drawgear arrangement on the suburban stock probably dates to pre 1923 and lasted right up to the end of slam door non corridor stock on the Southern Region. Power cars had a rubbing plate only, the DT vehicle in a two car had the buffer. On a 4 car set one TS had a buffer at one end and a rubbing plate at the other, the second TS had buffers at both ends (this was also the car that swapped the through jumper cables over from one side to the other).

 

BR design express and DEMU stock had buckeyes throughout.

 

Re the 4EPB from spare bodies, remember the BR 4EPBs had '57 equipment so all those roof conduits will have to go. There were a couple of sets formed from spares in the 1960s using 2EPB power cars, but unfortunately the TSs were Bullied types.

 

Chris

 

 

Indeed, Chris I stand corrected.

It was the Bulleid style, 1951 4-EPBs that were the first, though.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Post duly edited.

 

Cheers

[Ceptic]

Re - Spare bodies...

I'm hanging on to see how well they fit on to the Replica Railways motorised chassis.

[Ceptic]

PS - I am right in thinking the central buffer is the device between two inner coaches or is that the central rubbing pad? Sorry for my lack of knowledge, the EPB has brought back lots of memories.

 

Yup. Right on both counts.

One car / coach carried the buffer, and the adjoining car, the pad.

See ChrisH's post #72 above.

 

Cheers