justin Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Just about to embark on a 4mm scale London Road Models kit of a 2-4-2T in nickel silver but have seen conflicting advice on the power output needed from the soldering iron. I have a 15w iron and Iain Rice suggests 15-18w. The kit's instructions say use a 25w iron and a friend has used a 45w iron recently on his first kit (which was a small 0-6-0T). Suggestions, and the pros and cons of different sizes, would be much appreciated. Justin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 25W Antex as per most of the soldering iron threads you'll find on here. Something larger than that can be useful for boilers and coaches and anything smaller gets its heat zapped out on the superstructure of a brass kit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Yep, 25W would be best - though no harm in using a 45/50 but you may find it packs too much of a punch. Don't throw the 15W away though, it could be used when you are more experienced for detail work like brake gear or for white metal (low temp work) but TBH I use a 25W for that as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 This comes up a quite often on here. Standard issue for a lot (possibly most) 4mm etched kit builders is the Antex XS25. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 This comes up a quite often on here. Standard issue for a lot (possibly most) 4mm etched kit builders is the Antex XS25. Preferably fitted with a 3 mm bit (for good heat transfer) and 145 deg. solder with a good liquid flux. I would still recommend a good quality temperature controlled soldering station of 50 watts or more, as soon as the budget allows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 I use the Antex 25w iron for general construction, and an Antex 18w for smaller detail. Slightly OT, but what would you recommend for silver soldering? For example, in Martin Finney's inside motion instructions, he states that cranks should be silver-soldered to axles, before the latter are cut through to allow the inside connecting rods to rotate.... Are we looking at mini gas torch territory? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Slightly OT, but what would you recommend for silver soldering? For example, in Martin Finney's inside motion instructions, he states that cranks should be silver-soldered to axles, before the latter are cut through to allow the inside connecting rods to rotate.... Are we looking at mini gas torch territory? Sending it to Steamline Sheffield as Greg had the kit . Seriously, he went over what was needed for the Collett Goods crank axle and it didn't seem worth buying anything just for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Sending it to Steamline Sheffield as Greg had the kit . Seriously, he went over what was needed for the Collett Goods crank axle and it didn't seem worth buying anything just for that. It's not just a Collett Goods drive axle I've got to do. There are others as well...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45609 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 I use the Antex 25w iron for general construction, and an Antex 18w for smaller detail. Slightly OT, but what would you recommend for silver soldering? For example, in Martin Finney's inside motion instructions, he states that cranks should be silver-soldered to axles, before the latter are cut through to allow the inside connecting rods to rotate.... Are we looking at mini gas torch territory? Ivan, This link seems to be a good guide to silver soldering and it certainly is gas torch territory. I haven't done it myself, so can't speak from experience, but the one comment I have heard about silver soldering the cranks on Finney kits is that you have to be careful to not heat it up too much and anneal the cranks. IIRC they are brass castings. Craig, What kit do you need then? Gas torch, powder flux, silver solder and some sort of home made jig? Anything else? Cheers....Morgan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 ....This link seems to be a good guide to silver soldering and it certainly is gas torch territory. I haven't done it myself, so can't speak from experience, but the one comment I have heard about silver soldering the cranks on Finney kits is that you have to be careful to not heat it up too much and anneal the cranks. IIRC they are brass castings. Thanks. Yes, they are cast brass. Craig,What kit do you need then? Gas torch, powder flux, silver solder and some sort of home made jig? Anything else? Would the mini-torches from Maplins be suitable? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Nickel-silver, 'piece of cake' with a 25w. Brass is easy enough, NS easier still. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45609 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Would the mini-torches from Maplins be suitable? I believe so. Max flame temp for these butane powered micro torches is around 1300degC. Seems adequate for brazing small bits of metal. However, I think a bit of test work might be useful first. More useful info here although it is a US website. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Slightly OT, but what would you recommend for silver soldering? For example, in Martin Finney's inside motion instructions, he states that cranks should be silver-soldered to axles, before the latter are cut through to allow the inside connecting rods to rotate.... Are we looking at mini gas torch territory? Hello Horsetan, you used to be able to get a solder that had a silver content in it called Easy Weld, it's in a white plastic syringe. The blurb says melts with the heat of a match. You could soft solder them in place and then drill and pin them in place, using about 1mm N/S wire. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 This is a dumb question - I just know it - but will ask anyway, just in case I may learn something - Why silver solder ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Would the mini-torches from Maplins be suitable? . Yes, I have one of the Iroda solderpro 70 torches from Maplins and have used it to silver solder the cranks on a Finney inside motion kit. ...Why silver solder ? The brass cranks are soldered onto the steel axles which are then cut away to provide room for the rods. Silver solder is better suited to joining to steel and gives a much stronger joint than soft solders so is recommended because the joint is in a moving (therefore stressed) part. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Hi, as most others have said, an Antex 25 watt will do all jobs in 4mm scale with very few exceptions but I would add that a selection of bit sizes would be even more useful. I have used a 1mm bit for neat soldering on my new tender chassis and up to a 4mm bit for an old fashioned heavy etched loco chassis. A Brassmasters Royal Scot was built using the 25 w Antex with a 2mm bit for the chassis, main components and overlays, the 1mm for the detail parts and a special wedge shaped 1.5 for the likes of the rainstrips on the cab roof. I also use the iron through a temperature controller just to turn it down a bit for the 145degree solder on smaller parts. White metal is soldered with dedicated bits just kept for the purpose again with the temperature turned down. I have a 75 watt iron which is rarely used and then only to sweat brass chimneys and domes onto smokeboxes from the inside using the reduced temperature if it's whitemetal. Hope that helps. Very little cleaning up is needed if you use the right sized bit for the job..... All the best, Dave Franks. www.lanarkshiremodels.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Hi again, I forgot to mention Fluxes, I use Carr's yellow flux for just about everything except steel. I've tried Powerflow after recommendations but I still prefer a liquid flux for a neat job, remembering to wash the model after each session. I decant and mix 50:50 with water in a stumpy wee jar to avoid 'knockovers'.... Here's a followup photo of the Scot after painting, the customer wanted a pristine finish. Again, hope that helps. Dave Franks, www.lanarkshiremodels.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin Posted May 27, 2011 Author Share Posted May 27, 2011 Well thanks everyone for all the advice. I'll now buy the iron and get started. Justin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyC Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I'm afraid I'm going to differ to others on here. For brass and nickle silver kits in 4mm I wouldn't use less than 40W [For 7mm 75W]. My advice is use the biggest iron you can get in to where you're working. A big iron is fast in / fast out localising the heat; A small iron heats the job slowly allowing it to reach the other parts you've soldered. 25w is fine for detail work, brake gear, valve gear pins etc. I've just tried soldering a Comet Stove 'R' kit using a 25W Antex [because I've forgotten to pack my 40W] and it just doesn't have the heat reserve to flow the solder properly. Jeremy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 If you can afford it the Antex Temperature Controlled 'Soldering Station' (660TCS from memory) is excellent! A small iron in size but with a nice 50W punch. I have a selection of bits and use it for everything I do - I have an Antex 25W iron but I couldn't tell you the last time it was used! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Well, there you go, each to their own, I must say though I've never had a problem with a 25 watt iron, 145 solder and modern kits. I have had distortion of the likes of tender sides using a bigger iron which I don't get with the right size tip on a 25 watt Antex but as I say each to their own. All the best, Dave Franks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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