kevpeo Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 I don't know if anyone else has been waiting since Feb(!!!) for them, like me, but the harnessed ones are finally back! Kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassey jones Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Still no 21 pin chips though, still delayed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Coastal DCC have stocks of 645's with wire harnesses and can load them with UK sound files. Coastal also have 646's, and 642's. (Digitrains don't have an exclusive deal with the developer of the sound files which they retail). I suspect that Zimo may be quietly dropping the 21pin decoders from their range, they have become very hard to find. The new standard for multi-pin decoders is PluX. So, Bachmann locos with 21 pin sockets may end up needing a re-wire. - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted June 12, 2011 Author Share Posted June 12, 2011 The nice chaps at Digitrains told me that there is a new 21 pin version on the way. Apparently both Zimo and ESU fell foul to one of there suppliers going 'pop' and both had to redesign the chips PCB's to fit in a new component, hence the (long in Zimo's case!) delay. kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted June 13, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 13, 2011 So.... I need some help if some kind soul will be able to answer...Casseys posts with the videos of the 20 sold it to me....after some questioning i am under the impression of the following... Zimo's dont come with speakers? Zimos Require all CV settings to be set manually, ie me not the helpful folk at digitrains? Zimos CVs go beyond 255? Elites Cannot program beyond 255? There may be some cheat to get the elite to program beyond 255? So...if someone would be most kind and answer the question...my prayers will be answered i can decider weather or not to fit 2 of my baccy 20s with zimo sound with the added bonus of cascading the existing sound chips to other locos... But if im unable to program on my elite its a no goer sadly... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 So.... I need some help if some kind soul will be able to answer...Casseys posts with the videos of the 20 sold it to me....after some questioning i am under the impression of the following... Zimo's dont come with speakers? Zimos Require all CV settings to be set manually, ie me not the helpful folk at digitrains? Zimos CVs go beyond 255? Elites Cannot program beyond 255? There may be some cheat to get the elite to program beyond 255? So...if someone would be most kind and answer the question...my prayers will be answered i can decider weather or not to fit 2 of my baccy 20s with zimo sound with the added bonus of cascading the existing sound chips to other locos... But if im unable to program on my elite its a no goer sadly... Zimo decoders do not provide a speaker (that many people throw away anyway and use something better). Any 4 or 8 Ohm speakers, the most commonly available range, will work. Some are better than others, of course. Zimo sound projects from Digitrains are set up to work correctly as supplied. There are many CVs you may, optionally, use to tweak to your satisfaction. But that's your choice. You can change sounds around within Zimo projects without reprogramming, just use your DCC controller. You can even change the volume of each sound individually! Zimo (and lok v4.0 for that matter) use CVs above 255. Whilst inconvenient for lesser specified controllers, Zimo have a special technique (called Psuedo programming) which allows any DCC controller to access higher CVs. It just means there are a few more keystrokes needed to set your system up before you start vusing higher CVs. It's all covered very well in the downloadable decoder manual. You can use Decoder Pro (free JMRI software) to make CV adjustments from your computer. This is graphical and therefore easy to understand and use. Digitrains have had a delivery of 21 pin decoders today, but be quick, they sell out fast! You will not regret choosing Zimo. Kind regards, Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Coastal DCC have stocks of 645's with wire harnesses and can load them with UK sound files. Coastal also have 646's, and 642's. (Digitrains don't have an exclusive deal with the developer of the sound files which they retail). - Nigel Nigel, That's not quite accurate. Digitrains do have exclusive rights to the Class 37 Multi-Drive and Class 4MT Multi-drive which effectively give several loco variations on one decoder. Sorry I couldn't get to the show last Sat. Will you be at Hartlepool? Kind regards, Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassey jones Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 So.... I need some help if some kind soul will be able to answer...Casseys posts with the videos of the 20 sold it to me....after some questioning i am under the impression of the following... Zimo's dont come with speakers? Zimos Require all CV settings to be set manually, ie me not the helpful folk at digitrains? Zimos CVs go beyond 255? Elites Cannot program beyond 255? There may be some cheat to get the elite to program beyond 255? So...if someone would be most kind and answer the question...my prayers will be answered i can decider weather or not to fit 2 of my baccy 20s with zimo sound with the added bonus of cascading the existing sound chips to other locos... But if im unable to program on my elite its a no goer sadly... Pheaton, Pauliebanger answered all the points, but I will add,..... that prior to going with Zimo, I thought the best available sounds for loco's where all on the Loksound chips via SWD Howes etc. The Zimo chips for me are no different to the loksound to set up, eg the basic CV's I still feel need to be tweaked to suit the layout. CV2 CV3 CV4 CV5 CV6 [or Zimo CV57]. With all my Loksound I have had to do the same -it is just abit of fine tuning. Also you can do most of the tweaking on the Zimo's via your DCC handset, change the volume setting to all your functions and swapping function sounds around on to different F numbers. - It works for me. Go for the Digitrains class 20, 'hearing is believing how good this one is in the flesh'. If you are not too sure about which speaker to use, send the loco off to Chris / Jeremy and they will fit the speaker for you. I used a Soundtraxx 8 ohm round speaker 20mm, and a 26mm for the 37's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted June 20, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 20, 2011 Ok Cassey... two 21 pinners ordered for 2 of my ESU fitted choppers....on your head be it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 Also you can do most of the tweaking on the Zimo's via your DCC handset, change the volume setting to all your functions and swapping function sounds around on to different F numbers. - It works for me. I don't suppose you could elaborate on the function swapping please Cassey? I've been plodding through the manual and thought I had it with cv's 33-46 but trying to swap values in a pair failed! thanks, kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I don't suppose you could elaborate on the function swapping please Cassey? I've been plodding through the manual and thought I had it with cv's 33-46 but trying to swap values in a pair failed! thanks, kev. a ) Read the Zimo manual from their website. It runs to several hundred CV's b ) Use JMRI/DecoderPro (the most recent test releases), the Zimo stuff has been updated in the last few weeks to cover the current decoders. As well updates to the standard decoder panes, there are two scripts in the Jython folder to carry out function mapping and sound changes. ( The Pseudo Programmer script will help with this specific issue; its meant to cover allocating sounds to function keys ). Function mapping in Zimo for sound (and lights) will do just about anything. The CV33-46 range covers the function output wires and their relationship to function keys on a handset (and its only one of several ways of doing this!). Function output wires are not the same as Sound channels. For sounds, look at the manual at Page 36, column 2, though I would start reading from Page 34. It can all be done on a DCC handset (page 35 explain how to use extra CV's if your handset cannot usually program high CV numbers). Its probably necessary to write down the sequence you will need. And go carefully, watch that using "clear" to exit the pseudo-programming will give you "no sound" on that element, instead, get out by either another ops-mode CV instruction to CV300 or with "save", or take the decoder off the track(!!!). (A decoder "reset" should sort out any complete messes!). Even with writing things out, I found the key positions and remembering the sequence of button presses, and in particular the horrid "clear" button, to be confusing. So, I wrote the PseudoProgrammer for JMRI to deal with the worst of it! - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Hi Kev, Many on here will know that I have been pointing out this ability with Zimo for some time. I have become accustomed to making these changes via my DCC controller, which of course, can be done even in the absence of a computer. It may be useful in the long run to gain an understanding of how to do it this way. It is a more portable solution, perhaps. If you study the decoder manual, pages 34 to 38, it's all there. I suggest you completely ignore the screen shots of Zimo MX31 throttle, as they will only serve to confuse. Follow the text; it is comprehensive and accurate. There is a lot of button pushing, but it is achievable. However, I could not agree with Nigel more on this; if your system can communicate with Decoder Pro, the sound assignment utility that Nigel has recently added makes the whole task a breeze. In fact, for Zimo Sound decoder users, it's so good it's worth getting set up for Decoder pro just for this fature alone! (But there is much more to Decoder Pro you will find useful). Good luck. Kind regards Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 Thanks for the replies guys, I'll do some more 'studying' and check out decoder pro. I may be back! kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Ava_Hay Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Following on from both Nigel and Cassey and the remapping of function CV's, is this not available in GUI using Zimo software and the MXDECUP dongle? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Following on from both Nigel and Cassey and the remapping of function CV's, is this not available in GUI using Zimo software and the MXDECUP dongle? Some of the re-mapping features are available, but not all. (And, unless into developing sound files, I consider an MXDECUP as a "avoid" gizmo; at a minimum wait for the replacement device). The CV300 Pseudo-programming of sound allocations is not in the software for the MXDECUP. If you have your own sound files and make your own projects from scratch, then it does not matter as you define everything when creating the project. But, if just setting up a bought-in sound decoder then you need the CV300 method (or my JMRI script), or manual setting of CV values. The CV61=98 setting of function mapping (Page33 of current decoder manual) is described as a "feature to be added to ZST". As far as I know, its not yet implemented in any Zimo software, and ZST wouldn't be the place to put it since the split out of decoder features to other software packages. It is implemented in a JMRI script, or you carry out the commands manually on a throttle. Mannually requires keeping all 26 steps clear in your head, and at each of the 26 steps consider the setting of each function key plus the toggling of F0 through four states, as you go through it; its possible, but its hard work! The JMRI script does the remembering for you and presents the settings on a GUI. For most people, function (lighting) output mapping can be done with normal CV settings, but CV61=98 does allow combinations which are impossible with normal CV setting methods. - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted June 22, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2011 So.. Ok took the plunge, i have 4 ESU equipped 20s and two of these will be cascaded to other locomotives.... So duly ordered 2 21pin Zimo's from Digitrains with the 20 sound file... exactly 24hours later they landed on the doormat ...big A+ to digitrains! So...took the bodies off the 2 20s took out the ESU factory fitted decoders and put the zimo's in... quick test..bodies back on no problems so far... First impressions... Much much much much more volume required....well for me anyway, now originally i was worried about my elite not being able to program beyond CV#255 this turned out to be unfounded i can program CV#266 no problem (which is the volume control). However i have seen nothing official which claimes the elite can program to CV#1099 (which is what the elites programming menu supports) Havent checked in railmaster, but if i recall correctly it mirrors the elites menu. Its just the predicted time which puts me off this method! Now the zimo according to the website has a maximum volume setting of 255 on CV#266 (dont get confused now) however two problems became apparent.. 1,) setting beyond 180 would cause the decoder to stop responding..(not sure why im wondering if this is a flaw on the elite?) 2,) setting beyond 150 would cause all sounds to distort badly and were basically useless so 150 was the absolute maximum which gave an acceptable volume level though i would have liked it louder, i find the volume control isnt really proportionate to the value, as i when i set it to 150 i would expect it to be twice as loud as the default setting which is 64. So i wonder if the SnR ratio is much lower then the ESU equivilent decoder? Having said that...i could just be going deaf! Sound quality wise was where the zimo stands out, even with the stock speaker fitted to the factory sound class 20 (20x40) 20s are not well known for bass so i dont think i will bother changing it. The sound files are quite exceptional they just need a bit more in the volume department in my opinion. My main problem however is that when the 20s were fitted with ESU decoders their speeds and reactions were closely matched on the default settings...on the zimos one of them is much much slower then the other....the fact that this decoder was set to address 20 rather then the default of 3 leads me privately to the answer to the reason for this which is not for a public forum.... So my problem is....is there a way of block reading one decoder and block programming the values to the other....failing this im hoping its just the acceleration values which are out... Any ideas? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Hi Pheaton I think your volume problem is being caused by a using the wrong speaker. Zimo/Digitrains decoders use 8ohm speakers or 2x4ohms in series. The "stock" speaker fitted in a Bach factory sound loco = 100ohms suitable for the Loksound V3.5. Using the Zimo with the (Bach)stock speaker will give very low volume and poor quality. Once you get a suitable 8ohm speaker connected, it will be a lot louder ! The default setting of 65 on CV266 will probably be more than loud enough. For a Bach 20, Digitrains normally fit an 8ohm .75inch round ? speaker directly under the roof grille, blue tacked to the inside of the roof to seal it. HTH Ken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 .....my elite..... So my problem is....is there a way of block reading one decoder and block programming the values to the other....failing this im hoping its just the acceleration values which are out... 1) as Ken (Tractor) previously said above, change the speaker to the correct rating. At least with 100ohm installed when the decoder requires 8ohm all that happens is distorted and quiet sound, get it wrong the other way and "pfff" goes your decoder. While you are installing a new speaker, make a bit of effort to encase one side of the speaker cone to create a proper sound chamber (black-tack to hold the speaker against the opening for the fan grill is likely to be a massive improvement on the Bachmann installation, though you could do better than that with a bit more work). 2) Yes for the CV question. You could use DecoderPro to read all the CV's out of one decoder and load them all back into another. You need a USB lead from your Elite to a computer, and do the programming on the programming track. JMRI (DecoderPro) is free software; use the most recent test release as that includes a number of updates for Zimo decoders which are not present in the "stable" 2.10 release, or wait a week or two for the next "stable" 2.12 release. - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted June 22, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2011 Ask and ye will be answered... Thanks Guys Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 My main problem however is that when the 20s were fitted with ESU decoders their speeds and reactions were closely matched on the default settings...on the zimos one of them is much much slower then the other....the fact that this decoder was set to address 20 rather then the default of 3 leads me privately to the answer to the reason for this which is not for a public forum.... The answer to your 'unmatched' decoders rests in the way the original sound project has been 'saved' The developer of the original sound file supplied to Digitrains put 20 as the loco number. This is part of the project and would appear on all decoders with this particular sound scheme if Digitrains did not overwrite it. I would seem that this is one that got through unchanged. Similarly, the CVs in the original package are normally modified before being sent out, so this would support this explanation. I suggest you speak to Jeremy at Digitrains about your concerns. Each Zimo decoder has a unique ID that can be used, amongst other things, to trace it's path from manufacture to end user. (when programming, you will see it displayed when connecting ZSP to the decoder. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted June 22, 2011 Author Share Posted June 22, 2011 Ha, I told you I might be back! Followed your advice guys, read through the relevant pages until I thought I understood them, wrote down all the steps, and then fell at the first hurdle! Using a Lenz lzv100 with lh100 keypad, I put the loco on the track, (not the programing one!) set it for 'pom' cv300 value 4, for F4, pressed 0 to play back existing sound slot and nothing! I tried the same on other F no's but same result, any Ideas, kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Do you **know** your system can write CV's above 255 ? Playing with the volume levels, CV266, is the quick way to test. If your system cannot do CV's above 255, follow process on Page 35. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted June 22, 2011 Author Share Posted June 22, 2011 Hi Nigel, I've just tried reading and writing cv310 ok, so it looks like it can? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted June 22, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2011 The answer to your 'unmatched' decoders rests in the way the original sound project has been 'saved' The developer of the original sound file supplied to Digitrains put 20 as the loco number. This is part of the project and would appear on all decoders with this particular sound scheme if Digitrains did not overwrite it. I would seem that this is one that got through unchanged. Similarly, the CVs in the original package are normally modified before being sent out, so this would support this explanation. I suggest you speak to Jeremy at Digitrains about your concerns. Each Zimo decoder has a unique ID that can be used, amongst other things, to trace it's path from manufacture to end user. (when programming, you will see it displayed when connecting ZSP to the decoder. Paul Hi Paul, i dont have any concerns as such its just my 20s operate in pairs and thats what i bought the decoders for, if its a simple fix im happy to re-program all the CVs to get the 20s working as a pair again. I will ask digitrains if they can supply this or if they would like the decoder back to be rectified. Thanks Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Hi Nigel, I've just tried reading and writing cv310 ok, so it looks like it can? You have got the sound turned on for the loco before starting the CV300 lark ? - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.