Zimo MX645R's back in stock at Digitrains.

[pauliebanger]

Ha, I told you I might be back! Followed your advice guys, read through the relevant pages until I thought I understood them, wrote down all the steps, and then fell at the first hurdle! Using a Lenz lzv100 with lh100 keypad, I put the loco on the track, (not the programing one!) set it for 'pom' cv300 value 4, for F4, pressed 0 to play back existing sound slot and nothing! I tried the same on other F no's but same result, any Ideas, kev.

 

 

Kev, just spotted your post.

 

I don't know the Lenz controller, so accept any discrepacies in that light. After you have programmed CV300 = 4, you may need to 'leave ' the programming mode by some action - your manual should tell you. For example, with a PowerCab, one has to press the 'program' key.

 

The F keys will then operate as described in the decoder manual.

 

Incidentally, you don't ned to have the sound switched on to do these adjustments. I always turn all buttons off before starting pseudo programming,as this keeps the handset screen clear of distractions. BTW, the manual says use 'POM', but I always use service mode on a programming track so you see the CV values as they are read before entering new. This may not be possible with Lenz, I simply don't know.

 

Let us know how you get on.

 

Quick thought, it is possible to inadvertantly 'clear' a sound from it's slot. Don't panick,it will still be on the decoder, it just needs to be assigned. This can be done by running CV#300 etc again. If you completely lose the plot, reset using CV#8 =8. This will preserve the sounds and revert everything back as per the originally loaded project. Beware, any CV tweaking you have done willbe reversed.

 

Or use Nigel's tool in Decoder Pro.

 

DO NOT reset with CV#8 =0.That's a factory reset and you may well lose your sounds until reprogrammed.

 

Good luck,

 

Paul

[kevpeo]

Thanks Paul, I've tried both ways and studied the Lenz manual and no luck! I can read the value of cv300 on the programing track but if I try to write a value to it I just get an error message. if i write a value on cv300 on 'pom' and then read back on the programing track the value is still zero! It looks like its going to have to be the decoder-pro route. One question for the floor, do I need a special cable to connect a laptop to my 'express-net' socket or can I use the Lenz supplied cable. It appears to match a socket in the laptop but only has 6 contacts compared to the laptops 8? I don't want to blow something! thanks for your time, Kev.

[Nigelcliffe]

You need a hardware box between the Lenz Command Station and a Computer.

 

The Official Lenz box is very expensive (I think its £100+), in short supply and due to be replaced with a new model (though when is anyone's guess as it was announced ages ago).

There is a third party DIY design called XnTCP which is cheaper and not as hard to build as it looks at first sight; read the website for it thoroughly and it should become clear. That has decent support in JMRI.

 

The way the programming on Main should work is this:

• 
   
  
• Select loco by address so it can be driven,
  
• Program on Main CV300=4 (or whatever value),
  
• Exit Program on main, returning to driving loco
  
• the throttle + function keys on the handset no longer drive the loco, but instead alter the sounds.
  

 

CV300 is not a "normal CV", as soon as you disconnect power to the loco (lift it from the track) then the CV300 Program-on-main sequence is ended. So, its not surprising that you cannot read it back on a programming track.

 

I suggest you try with the sequence laid out on Page 35 which lowers the CV number by 100 or 200. I would deliberately offset CV300 to be CV200 and try again using CV200, the offset parameter is only a temporary measure (as explained on page 35). Its just possible that this is the problem.

 

 

There are other high-value CV's which you should be able to set and read on the programming track, and should also be able to set with normal POM (earlier you said there was one which worked).

 

 

If the PseudoProgramming is not working manually, then I would question whether JMRI will actually help because all JMRI does is the software equivalent of pressing your throttle buttons in a very quickly and keep track of the button presses. (And, if Lenz needs the CV offset, the JMRI script will need updating or a manual bodge-around is required. The update is quite do-able, but I'd like to know its really needed before adding more code).

[pauliebanger]

Kev.

 

I endorse all that Nigel has said and can add little more.

 

I tried doing this several times on a PowerCab before I got it to work.It turned outto be mypoor understanding of the process and shaky manipulation!!

 

However, Cassey Jones uses this technique on his Lenz system after a bit of coaching. Ask him to send a copy of the explanatory email I sent him, he'll know which - it's the one with the 'layer cake' analogy.

 

Paul

[cassey jones]

Kev,

 

I can certainly back up what Paul is saying - CV300 [moving Functions and Volume etc] - works fine using the Lenz 100 handset, [no need for a computer] - no problems what so ever.

PM and I will forward the info.

[kevpeo]

Thanks again all, Casey has kindly sent me Paul's 'layer cake' analogy which actually makes sense . Unfortunately I still cannot access the pseudo programming bit. I'm probably missing something dead simple, if I had any hair I would of torn it out by now! Does this sound right - enter 'POM' - CV - 300 - 4 - enter. Now at this point the manual says I should press F0 and the current sound will play, it doesn't! Now Nigel says leave 'POM' (the only way to leave seems to be 'escape') and press FO to hear current sound, I do this and the lights go on/off! So I tried setting CV 7 to 110 then setting CV 200 to 4,as per manual, same result, lights on off! Got to say I'm really missing my Lokprogrammer! Once again thanks for your help guys, Kev.

[Nigelcliffe]

I admit to being just about stumped, because it seems that correct steps are being followed, but something is not causing the POM to take.

 

I have two long shot ideas; (1) somewhere a decoder lock has been set which is stopping the instructions, but I cannot think what that could be (and previously you'd reported writing with POM to other CV's and then reading back the values later on the programming track which does seem to rule out this idea), and (2) just maybe RailCom might be interfering with this stuff, and in that case, turn off RailCom in the decoder (its in CV29) and (if possible) turn it off in the Command Station.

 

Just to double-check that POM is working properly.... Can you run another loco on the track (just let it run slowly) and then call up this Zimo sound one. Now try to make a POM change to the Zimo loco. There should be no interruption in the running of the first loco, if there is the slightest stutter/interrupt to the first loco, then something is odd is going on with the Lenz system.

 

 

To be honest, this is looking like a "take it to someone else" and see what happens; either a different DCC system or another loco and indentify where the problem lies.

 

 

- Nigel

[pauliebanger]

Thanks again all, Casey has kindly sent me Paul's 'layer cake' analogy which actually makes sense . Unfortunately I still cannot access the pseudo programming bit. I'm probably missing something dead simple, if I had any hair I would of torn it out by now! Does this sound right - enter 'POM' - CV - 300 - 4 - enter. Now at this point the manual says I should press F0 and the current sound will play, it doesn't! Now Nigel says leave 'POM' (the only way to leave seems to be 'escape') and press FO to hear current sound, I do this and the lights go on/off! So I tried setting CV 7 to 110 then setting CV 200 to 4,as per manual, same result, lights on off! Got to say I'm really missing my Lokprogrammer! Once again thanks for your help guys, Kev.

 

 

Should there be an 'enter' between 300 and 4?

 

CJ uses the same kit as you, so it would seem you should be able to address CV#300 directly. I'm sure he could give you a button by button description of what he does if you ask him nicely?

 

I must admit, I had problems getting CV#300 pseudo programming when I first tried, then one time it just semed to click with me, and I have no further trouble. You will see from that email that CJ had problems initially, but his were not with pseudo programming, it was with the sound file management structure. Hence my cake analogy.

 

Forget programmers, when you master this you'll realise how flexible it is, and how much in control of the decoder's sounds and volume levels you are.

 

Paul

[kevpeo]

Yes Paul, There are a couple of other 'enters' in the sequence, I just emphasized the last one. I have had a thought, my Lenz system has the latest software versions with three stage function menu along with other things, perhaps Casey's is the older software? Coppells system has the old software so I'll try that. One can only hope! kev.

[cassey jones]

Yes Paul, There are a couple of other 'enters' in the sequence, I just emphasized the last one. I have had a thought, my Lenz system has the latest software versions with three stage function menu along with other things, perhaps Casey's is the older software? Coppells system has the old software so I'll try that. One can only hope! kev.

 

 

Kev,

 

No, I have the latest software - if you are still have a problem I could knock up a video showing how I do it - which buttons etc.

No problems.

[kevpeo]

Wahey! :yahoo: Thanks Casey, no need, I brought the club's set 100 home and tried it with that and it worked per Nigel's instructions (not the manuals!),My 20 and 47 are now sorted! Thanks for all your help guys, hopefully my blunderings will be helpful to others! Kev.

[Nigelcliffe]

Kev,

Glad its working , but have you identified why it was not working before with your own kit ?

 

If its a problem with your handset, it would be useful to document it for others. If it was operator error, again useful to know where you went wrong so better advice can be given next time.

 

- Nigel

[pauliebanger]

Kev,

 

Nigels' right. It would be good to identify the problem/solution for future reference.

 

What do you feel was different in Nigel's instructions from those the manual? Did you mean the decoder manual or your Lenz manual?

 

Have you now tried it successfully on your own kit?

 

We are always happy to help, but feedback is useful for everyone.

 

Paul

[kevpeo]

Hi guys, I've tried it again with my own system, still wont do anything but flash the lights on and off! The difference between the manual and Nigel's advice is that the Zimo manual doesn't mention leaving the 'POM' menu before listening to and/or moving the function sounds. It just says enter a value of x to cv300 and then press F0 to listen. Perhaps you don't need to on a Zimo set-up or perhaps I didn't read it right! Perhaps we need to re-title this topic to '' Zimo help '' bye for now, Kev.

[Nigelcliffe]

Kev,

 

are you able to say what is the difference between the two systems ? Version numbers of hardware, or something ? If you swap the handsets between command stations, which one works ? Clearly there is a difference if one system works as predicted and one fails. Either Paul or I might want to pass this problem over to others to see if a pattern is emerging which suggests a bug in Zimo decoders (fixable by an update) or a bug in Lenz' systems (no idea if this is fixable). My first guess is still RailCom !

 

 

The instructions issue. I think its a case of you not being quite clear what is happening and the Zimo manual perhaps being not 100% clear (perhaps lost in translation from German!).

 

In pseudo programming, the loco is put into a special mode. Once in that mode, it does not drive, but instead the throttle commands (speed & functions) cause it to play different sounds, save them, alter volumes, etc.. On leaving pseudo-programming (either one of the function keys which cause an "exit", or taking loco off track, or another POM instruction of CV300=0), then the loco returns to driving as normal.

 

To get a loco into pseudo-programming requires a POM (ops mode) programming instruction to be completed. Which, on a Lenz seems to require you to "enter programming mode, do programming, exit programming mode". Hence my instruction sequence. I think the "exit programming mode" step is implied in the Zimo manual, but probably not explicit.

 

 

- Nigel

[cassey jones]

I know that with my Lenz 100 [latest spec] it works fine with CV300, - admittedly I have only ever tried it on POM.

If I wish to change/swap functions to different F numbers, it is just a case of switching between f1 and f2 and then 3 or 4 -depending on which sound I am looking for [using the 'duck' sound as end of layering section].

Same goes for the increase or decrease of function volumes via CV300 - Always remembering to save alterations by inputting F8 after all changes, - I have had no problems with all 8 Zimo chips.

[kevpeo]

Hi again all, as requested I tried a little mix & matching of controllers/base-stations and found this. I connected the old/original spec? LH100 from the clubs Set 100 to my LZV 100 (new spec) base station and tried 'POM cv300 etc'' and it worked no problems. On connecting my (new spec) LH100 to the clubs (old spec) LZV 100 base station it was back to the flashing headlamps again! So it appears my handset is the culprit! There is another new spec handset at the club so I'll try that next.

 

I have noticed something else strange though. After giving both of my ''new toys'' a good thrashing yesterday I went to slow down the 47's top speed a touch on cv57 (as I'd already done previously) on the programing track and got an 'error two' message back, strange. So I tried cv's 3&4 which I'd set to a value of 75 previously, only to be told that they are both set to zero! This they are not as the inertia is very obviously working fine! Then tried reading back the address and also got the 'error two' message, very strange! Other cv's are reading back fine. Am I going to have to perform the dreaded reset and start again? yours, Kev.

[pauliebanger]

Hi again all, as requested I tried a little mix & matching of controllers/base-stations and found this. I connected the old/original spec? LH100 from the clubs Set 100 to my LZV 100 (new spec) base station and tried 'POM cv300 etc'' and it worked no problems. On connecting my (new spec) LH100 to the clubs (old spec) LZV 100 base station it was back to the flashing headlamps again! So it appears my handset is the culprit! There is another new spec handset at the club so I'll try that next.

 

I have noticed something else strange though. After giving both of my ''new toys'' a good thrashing yesterday I went to slow down the 47's top speed a touch on cv57 (as I'd already done previously) on the programing track and got an 'error two' message back, strange. So I tried cv's 3&4 which I'd set to a value of 75 previously, only to be told that they are both set to zero! This they are not as the inertia is very obviously working fine! Then tried reading back the address and also got the 'error two' message, very strange! Other cv's are reading back fine. Am I going to have to perform the dreaded reset and start again? yours, Kev.

 

 

Kev,

 

Probably not. If the inertia is working, but your kit says it is turned off, and in view of the problems with your handset re CV#300, it's could an issue with your kit, rather than the decoder.

 

I think you need to illiminate the strange behaviour with your kit before trying to 'fix' problems with the decoders.

 

Just as a matter of interest, what value had you already given to CV#57? And what were you trying to change it to?

 

Paul

[kevpeo]

Ha, some would say strange behavior is normal around me Paul! Cv 57 is (was?) currently set to 40, and its a Heljan 'tubby duff ' that the chips in so I probably would have taken it down to 35 to try it. Just to murky the waters even more I've just tried the clubs new spec LH100, and that will not program functions on it either! kev.

[pauliebanger]

Kev,

 

Oh dear. And with the curent spat between Lenz/ESU and Zimo over RailCom, Lenz may not be too eager to help!

 

CV#57 = 40 is very low, about 4 volts. I have no idea if this is affecting the reading or not.

 

You could try putting this back to, say 120, (or even 255) and adjust your top speed with CV#5, mid-point CV#6.

 

Paul

[Nigelcliffe]

I've never needed CV57 on a Zimo decoder, just leave it at zero (automatic). I have used the equivalent command in CT decoders extensively.

 

- Nigel

[pauliebanger]

I've never needed CV57 on a Zimo decoder, just leave it at zero (automatic). I have used the equivalent command in CT decoders extensively.

 

- Nigel

 

 

Nigel,

 

I've not needed to use CV~57 for its primary purpose either. Agreed, also in CV#57, Zero is the same as 255.

 

However, some Zimo users found in the past that if Vmax (CV#5) was set too low, the decoder would not play sounds in the highest sound slot. It's not happened to me, but a work around was found (Don't know who) which reduced speed without affecting sounds played, CV57.

 

This is suggested as a 'prefered by some' alternative in the decoder manual.

 

Paul

[cassey jones]

Nigel,

 

I've not needed to use CV~57 for its primary purpose either. Agreed, also in CV#57, Zero is the same as 255.

 

However, some Zimo users found in the past that if Vmax (CV#5) was set too low, the decoder would not play sounds in the highest sound slot. It's not happened to me, but a work around was found (Don't know who) which reduced speed without affecting sounds played, CV57.

 

This is suggested as a 'prefered by some' alternative in the decoder manual.

 

Paul

 

Paul,

I use CV57, mine vary somewhere in between 60 and 75 - depending which sound chip it is. [These are used on the older Zimo sound chips - I found it easier than tweaking CV5 and 6] - to create better driving experience -this was prior to the new multi drive sound chips available from Digitrains.

[kevpeo]

Hi again all, when I first read back the cv's prior to 'mucking about' (always good practice!) I noted that as supplied the values of cv's 2,5 & 6 were all 1! This I assumed was because the chip was using a speed table rather than three values. So I was cheeky and e-mailed Tony the programs creator to check. It was the man himself that told me to use cv57 rather than 5&6 to reduce the top speed as he'd had issues(!) before, I don't know what they were though. hth, Kev.

[pauliebanger]

Kev,

 

What sound project did you buy from Digitrains? I've looked back but can't find if you have already told us.

 

However, Casey's post shows that values as low as 60 work without upsetting CV#300 on a Lenz controller., so it might be irrelivant anyway. But I'd like to know

 

Paul