AndyB Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Work is going apace on my new Highland-based layout. [For info I've been using Gaugemaster's foam ballast rolls which have worked really well for me.] I'm ready to lay track across a viaduct and would like to know if it is prototypical to ballast the track. The viaduct will be similar to that at Rannoch I've Googled endlessly and can't find a photo of the track itself. Most are taken from the side of the viaduct, below, from a train crossing the viaduct, or long-distance aerial shots. Given a choice I'd continue the foam roll across the viaduct, but if it would be a glaring and obvious error then better to know in advance! Look forward to hearing from anyone that knows the answer. Best regards, Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troon boy Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 I don't know if this proves the case either way but I took this looking from the old Chacewater Station just outside Truro. It looks as if the track is ballasted but it's taken from about 100 yards away. http://www.rmweb.co....ewater-viaduct/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 The Ouse Viaduct is ballasted Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
43110andyb Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 All the viaducts I have been been over have been fully ballasted. These are all in the North East but I would guess it would be the same elsewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRDBLUE17 Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Hi Andy, It really depends on location as some are and others are not. I have ballasted the track on my model of Rannoch that I am building and I have seen pictures of other viaducts on the line that are ballasted. The track is built into the central section and has edging built in to keep the ballast contained within it. The viaducts then have metal walkways added either side of this. Hope that helps a bit, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
31A Driver Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 As are Welwyn, Robbery Bottom (North of Welwyn tunnels), Hertford (North) and Harts Horns (south of Hertford Viaduct) Viaducts. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 To work out whether a structure would be ballasted or not you need to consider the construction of it. Steel brdiges often have a structure which easily allowed waybeams to be attached and thus do no have ballasted track. Where sufficient depth is available steel bridges may be ballasted which makes maintaining through alignment a bit easier, though you have to be careful not to lift the track too much so as not to overload it with stone! The construction of stone and brick bridges don't allow an easy method for using waybeams so tend to be ballasted )no doubt there'll be exceptions somewhere! So I think you'll be fine having normal ballasted track. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 It really depends on location as some are and others are not. What Mr Blue said. (Edit - and James while I was typing !) For a girder-built viaduct like that there are two basic methods of construction. Either the rail chairs are bolted to longitudinal timbers (waybeams) resting directly on girders with the gaps (four foot and cess) filled in with boarding or steel plates, or a flat deck is built on the girders forming a shallow tray, and the track laid on ballast within the tray. Waybeams were popular for original construction but (potentially) result in rough riding where the track passes from the comparatively rigid girders to the more flexible ballast at either side. Waybeams can be replaced with a steel tray during modernisation or repair allowing easier mechanised maintenance. If you read the RAIB report into the Stewarton derailment the other year (the one where the bridge collapsed under a petrol train) the bridge girders had corroded to paper thin because an earlier conversion from waybeams to ballasted deck had been carried out in such a way that a damp inaccessible cavity had been formed creating a damp pocket but preventing proper inspection of the girders. Looking at that pic my money is on that one being ballasted but I'm not 100% certain and Google Maps isn't clear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted June 15, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 15, 2011 Whalley viaduct near me is ballasted. However not all are. Attached is a pic of the viaduct over the River Spey at Garmouth, that used to carry the line along the coast between Lossiemouth and Banff. It is now part of National Cycle Route 1 The rails were fixed to the wooden baulks. Dunno if it qualifies as a viaduct, but the Forth Rail bridge isn't ballasted on the central sections. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 Guys, thanks very much for your thoughts. Confirmed what I thought might be the case but with plenty of fresh insights. Mark, I spent a lot of time this morning searching for your layout topic as I seem to remember that you done a lovely model of Rannoch viaduct. Where's that blog (?) hidden these days?! Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 but (potentially) result in rough riding where the track passes from the comparatively rigid girders to the more flexible ballast at either side. And it can cause problems if a new design is made and the designers haven't realised it's a waybeam bridge! I was once setting out for tamping and approaching a waybeam bridge - I was thinking 'these a big slews so close to the bridge'. Then at the half chord just on the bridge itself called for a slew of 75mm! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 I once spent a very pleasant Sunday (at time & threequarters, thank you) watching the PW trying to install new waybeams on a wrought iron bridge at Langwathby. The old beams were the originals, set in iron troughs and sealed with pitch. The wood was like a sponge but 100 yr old pitch required a kangol hammer to shift it ! Of course they were all delighted when I turned up asking lots of impertinant questions about their protection arrangements , and even more pleased when the RRNE CCE (Maurice S) rolled up a few minutes later to do a spot check. The next planning meeting was a hoot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Emily Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Not quite a viaduct, but this old picture of the bridge near the King Bill pub on the Bolton-Blackburn line in around 1998 before it was replaced shows how bridges and viaducts that the track is laid on beams rather than ballasted look. The King Edward bridge in Newcastle-upon-Tyne uses a similar method on the main spans, though the approach stone viaducts are ballasted track. As others have said; it all depends on the construction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 RAIB Stewarton Report Useful diagram on page 16. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted June 15, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 15, 2011 Took a photo of a nearby bridge from a train in the 1980's, but that is inconclusive. This link shows a typical way in which a steel trestle viaduct was built http://www.flickr.co...N00/4257135167/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted June 15, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 15, 2011 Often things that look like viaducts are called bridges. Such as Barmouth Bridge only the swing section (which is no longer swung apparantly) is a proper bridge the rest is more of a viaduct, but has no ballast as I recall. I dont think the Crumlin viaduct had ballast. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Russ (mines a pint) Posted June 15, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 15, 2011 The viaduct will be similar to that at Rannoch Have a look at the viaduct on Geograph: Geograph link. - as long as its the same viaduct, ballasted! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 Have a look at the viaduct on Geograph: Geograph link. - as long as its the same viaduct, ballasted! Nice link, Russ. I wasn't aware of that site. Cheers, Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poolelad Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 The viaducts down here (brick construction) are covered in ballast(Here being Poole in Dorset) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 A few from the VolkerRail archive... They usefully illustrate the differences of the ballasted and non-ballasted approaches. First is HJS-25 which is a waybeam bridge - Next is HJS-16 which is ballasted but with thin concretes. Both are steel bridges and show how similar structures can have different approaches to their p-way. And a slightly different, a bow girder steel structure with waybeams - oh, yes and it swings too! HJS-22 in Hull. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Work is going apace on my new Highland-based layout. [For info I've been using Gaugemaster's foam ballast rolls which have worked really well for me.] I'm ready to lay track across a viaduct and would like to know if it is prototypical to ballast the track. The viaduct will be similar to that at Rannoch I've Googled endlessly and can't find a photo of the track itself. Most are taken from the side of the viaduct, below, from a train crossing the viaduct, or long-distance aerial shots. Given a choice I'd continue the foam roll across the viaduct, but if it would be a glaring and obvious error then better to know in advance! Look forward to hearing from anyone that knows the answer. Best regards, Andy Andy Looking at the photo you link to, the ballast does appear to stop when it reaches the viaduct and I think that would be very common for a lattice steel decked viaduct of this type. On the other had I do know steel railway bridges that have deck plates and ballast.- the bridge that crosses the Thames at Bourne End comes immediately to mind. I think MRDBLUE17 is building a Rannoch based layout with a viaduct and his is ballasted though I've no idea if it's the same viaduct as yours. He may though have already done the research so it's probably worth a PM to him. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 Thanks, David, In fact Mark (aka MrDBlue17) posted on this thread towards the top. Meanwhile I've been making steady progress on the layout. Track is down and wiring is underway. I've ballasted the viaduct section and have left space to the sides to shutter it in as described by Mark. I used the foam ballast by Gaugemaster which worked a treat. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Thanks, David, In fact Mark (aka MrDBlue17) posted on this thread towards the top. Meanwhile I've been making steady progress on the layout. Track is down and wiring is underway. I've ballasted the viaduct section and have left space to the sides to shutter it in as described by Mark. I used the foam ballast by Gaugemaster which worked a treat. Andy Oops. didn't spot Mark's post when I was going through the thread - even though I was looking for it. What I have been wondering is how, when steel structres were ballasted, did they avoid massive corrosion problems? Nowadays I'm sure they use impermeable membranes and suchlike but originally would they not have had to dig out the ballast from the trough everytime they needed to red lead the steelwork. I'm wondering if this is someting that's changed with time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
66C Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Work is going apace on my new Highland-based layout. [For info I've been using Gaugemaster's foam ballast rolls which have worked really well for me.] I'm ready to lay track across a viaduct and would like to know if it is prototypical to ballast the track. The viaduct will be similar to that at Rannoch I've Googled endlessly and can't find a photo of the track itself. Most are taken from the side of the viaduct, below, from a train crossing the viaduct, or long-distance aerial shots. Given a choice I'd continue the foam roll across the viaduct, but if it would be a glaring and obvious error then better to know in advance! Look forward to hearing from anyone that knows the answer. Best regards, Andy Hi Andy I have just returned from holiday so only just able to respond to your post. Rannoch Viaduct is definitely NOT ballasted. There are ballast retention sections beyond each end of the viaduct. The running rails are laid on longitudinal way beams. When the viaduct was refurbished a few years ago the timber walkways on either side of the track (at a higher level than the rail) were replaced with a metal grating type. Metal mesh walkways are used to fill the space between the way beams (the 4 foot) and also between the way beams and the raised walkways at the sides of the track. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mc Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Here is a photo of the track going over Gaur viaduct south of Rannock..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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