RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted June 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 19, 2011 Tales in this thread of damaged parcels, damaged goods, (both Yodel, IIRC) and now damaged lorries (Tuffnels). If they're boisterous with the vehicles, then who's to day that the Manchester Depot isn't equally cavalier with the parcels? True, but I have no evidence to back a comment regarding parcels, hence only using my knowledge of lorries. Perhaps it was a bad example to use, but I couldn't think of a better one. And I'm sure every company in the world has employees who don't treat things the way they should be. Exactly. I refer the Honourable Gentleman to my previous written RMWeb comments.... Well everyone has a right as to express how public money should be spent, but to quote a certain Prime Minister who I don't normally agree with, but this time I will. 'There is no such thing as public money.' However if competition is introduced with regard to the delivery of goods, there will be companies which do it better than others and as Mr Cable said ' The review of Royal Mail by Richard Hooper says that the universal postal service can be maintained only by an injection of private sector money and expertise. Long term RM in it's current form is not sustainable.' Customer service should be good, but sadly it does seem to be disappearing from the modern world. I do agree I would like to see it come back, but I don't think it will. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted June 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 19, 2011 Well everyone has a right as to express how public money should be spent, but to quote a certain Prime Minister who I don't normally agree with, but this time I will. 'There is no such thing as public money.' All this is of course getting a tad political now, not to mention off topic. I think you're right, there Ian.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 What puzzles me over parcels deliveries is that Parcelforce will leave a parcel at the nearest post office whereas Royal Mail take it back to the sorting office. And then there was the parcel covered with Citylink labels that I collected from the sorting office Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 It's extremely off-topic, surely, given the OP is meant to be about the Dapol Britannia, and the gentleman's experience with Dapol...! I couldn't comment on Dapol's customer services (never used them), but I have seen a fair few of these Britannia models over the last few weeks, and every single one had something which needed fixing/modifying - from a nameplate badly glued down, to a missing pin for the connecting rod, and a repaint on the tender where the lines were not printed correctly. Not having owned one, I don't feel I'm qualified to make a full judgment on the model's shortcomings, but there does seem to be a QC issue of some degree regarding this particular Dapol product as we've seen this thread, plus a few others emerge over the last few months. I can only sympathize with the OP and hope it gets sorted out soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mod3 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 It's extremely off-topic, surely, given the OP is meant to be about the Dapol Britannia, and the gentleman's experience with Dapol...! Agreed, can we stick to the problems mentioned please everyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 It's extremely off-topic, surely, given the OP is meant to be about the Dapol Britannia, and the gentleman's experience with Dapol...! To be fair Simon, the OP himself did have quite a lot to say about couriers, no doubt as part of his general dissatisfaction, although I agree it did get out of hand very quickly. I do agree that the focus should be on the product and its manufacturer now, hopefully the OP will return when he has something to tell us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 To be fair Simon, the OP himself did have quite a lot to say about couriers, no doubt as part of his general dissatisfaction. I do agree though that the focus should be on the product and its manufacturer now, hopefully the OP will return when he has something to tell us. Fair comment, I hasten to add I wasn't raising the finger at anyone in particular, just surprised that what I thought was the big issue - the QC of the model - seemed to be overlooked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I think you're right, there Ian.... Lovely subtle pun there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 It's a sad tale...... but I've gotta admit that I don't think I would have contacted Dapol about sending it to them even if Hattons had suggested it. That sounds like a recipe for disaster to me as it will be outside of their usual procedure/process with retailers and likely to 'get lost', 'go astray', have the wrong paperwork, not be authorised, etc., plus Hattons wouldn't be kept in the loop. It's the sellers responsibility to sort such problems out (by replacement, repair or refund) and as a customer one should really deal directly with them - and if required return the goods to them rather than the manufacturer. G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZmodeller Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Hi Everyone, My parcels have arrived intact, no damage from Hattons every time via RM and their overseas partners and from everyone else I've used in the UK icluding Antics, Osborns etc. Seems it's more likely to be damaged in the UK than anywhere else. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Hi R.E. Faust, Just read your thread and went into 'Panic mode' here at Dapol towers. I have immediately searched my PM folder and there are no messages there from you at all, sorry. However i think i should clarify Dapols position with regards to broken or faulty new locomotives. I know its probably not an idea answer but it is the one we go for. Dapol do not accept models back, purchased from stockists directly from the customer if faulty. Neither will we send repaired models directly back to customers. This simply because we understand that your contract is directly with the place of purchase and not Dapol, and Dapol's is subsequently with the stockist. Now, if you send it directly to me and I cant do a repair and I haven't got a replacement for you you're quite rightly not going to be happy with me. So you'll be wanting your money back. Well this wont happen from Dapol, or any of the other manufacturers as this is problematic in the extreme. So we like to keep the chain of sale intact, and although long winded, it does keep your rights as as a consumer intact as well. A great case in point is a parcel received this morning with 2 terriers in asking for his money back as they are both bad runners. Well in fact they are both great runners and needed lubrication (neither had been touched since production) but the chap is adamant that Dapol should refund directly to him (no place of purchase, no receipt, just 'pay a refund for the full retail for both please'. I'm sorry that you got someone who was rather blunt, as it's not the way we like to do things (but sometimes does happen) and what I think was trying to be explained is what I have outlined above, plus the fact that a simple repair might not actually be that as the Loco's are make wholly in China and our knowledge base (ok my knowledge base) on every nook and cranny of this loco is not totally perfect. It maybe that Dapol are totally responsible for allowing this model to go to the stockist broken and for that I apologise, however it may also be possible that due to the protracted delivery times the box it came in might have been subjected to more 'shock' than normally expected (even if the box isnt / wasnt damaged) and this shock subsequently damaged the model. Please when you get this, send me a test PM and i'll reply as soon as i get it (just to be safe that mails are coming through to me). cheers Dave Dapol Ltd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R E Faust Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 Hi R.E. Faust, Just read your thread and went into 'Panic mode' here at Dapol towers. I have immediately searched my PM folder and there are no messages there from you at all, sorry. However i think i should clarify Dapols position with regards to broken or faulty new locomotives. I know its probably not an idea answer but it is the one we go for. Dapol do not accept models back, purchased from stockists directly from the customer if faulty. Neither will we send repaired models directly back to customers. This simply because we understand that your contract is directly with the place of purchase and not Dapol, and Dapol's is subsequently with the stockist. Now, if you send it directly to me and I cant do a repair and I haven't got a replacement for you you're quite rightly not going to be happy with me. So you'll be wanting your money back. Well this wont happen from Dapol, or any of the other manufacturers as this is problematic in the extreme. So we like to keep the chain of sale intact, and although long winded, it does keep your rights as as a consumer intact as well. A great case in point is a parcel received this morning with 2 terriers in asking for his money back as they are both bad runners. Well in fact they are both great runners and needed lubrication (neither had been touched since production) but the chap is adamant that Dapol should refund directly to him (no place of purchase, no receipt, just 'pay a refund for the full retail for both please'. I'm sorry that you got someone who was rather blunt, as it's not the way we like to do things (but sometimes does happen) and what I think was trying to be explained is what I have outlined above, plus the fact that a simple repair might not actually be that as the Loco's are make wholly in China and our knowledge base (ok my knowledge base) on every nook and cranny of this loco is not totally perfect. It maybe that Dapol are totally responsible for allowing this model to go to the stockist broken and for that I apologise, however it may also be possible that due to the protracted delivery times the box it came in might have been subjected to more 'shock' than normally expected (even if the box isnt / wasnt damaged) and this shock subsequently damaged the model. Please when you get this, send me a test PM and i'll reply as soon as i get it (just to be safe that mails are coming through to me). cheers Dave Dapol Ltd Thanks for replying Dave. I've just checked my end and the messge is there from Friday AM, so odd you didn't get it. I appreciate the reasoning behind your policy, however I think Hattons were sensitive to the issues around the courier and wanted to try and speed things up, and of course it does mean the Brit now has to be sent in the mail 4 times rather than 2 to (hopefully) get it sorted. The part which needs replacing is generic to all models so hopefully even though you are out of that particular model it can be sorted, The model looks lovely and I am impatient to see the thing doing it's stuff so apologies if my frustration to get it sorted caused some issues, R E Faust Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 In light of the above concern about the messaging system I have just checked and your message was sent to Dave at 17.00 on Thursday afternoon. I sent Dave a PM, which he didn't reply to, I note that the above comment was made at 13.17 on a Sunday afternoon. If Dave was otherwise engaged on Friday I don't think it's reasonable to say that Dave didn't reply given the timescale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I can see that one of the fine black rods directly above the drive mechanism is hanging down, snapped in two. I know this isn't the purpose of the thread, but what exactly has been broken? Is it part of the mechanism and therefore preventing the model from working? If it is then obviously Dapol may be the best people to sort it out but if it's cosmetic it should be 'mendable' - either with plastic solvent of superglue if it's a harder plastic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R E Faust Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 In light of the above concern about the messaging system I have just checked and your message was sent to Dave at 17.00 on Thursday afternoon. I note that the above comment was made at 13.17 on a Sunday afternoon. If Dave was otherwise engaged on Friday I don't think it's reasonable to say that Dave didn't reply given the timescale. Actually it's merely an accurate statement, there is nothing unreasonable about it since it implied no fault on Daves part. You only quoted part of my sentence, the next words were 'though of course he might be away' which shows that I wasn't criticising him and am aware he has lots of calls on his time. R E Faust Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 As far as I can see, this PM issue is a red herring anyway. Neither Hattons nor Dapol would know that you were an RMweb member, even if they had there's no obligation on you to use a forum PM (which is IMHO at best a semi-official method of communication anyway), and you were perfectly entitled to choose the phone as your mode of contact (as you did). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 You only quoted part of my sentence, the next words were 'though of course he might be away' which shows that I wasn't criticising him and am aware he has lots of calls on his time. I hate to be dragged into semantics and veer away from the issue but to explain why I responded as such you used the words "didn't reply" which is obviously the past tense suggesting it was a period of time ago whereas "hasn't replied yet" would have been less final as a phrase. As far as I can see, this PM issue is a red herring anyway. Obviously not as it was part of the initial encompassing post and it was used to apparently bolster the OP's position. It comes back to well trodden ground, as you know, that the responsibility lies with the retailer to resolve complaints about goods not fit for purpose. Strewth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Fearing I am wading into an area already thick with quicksand here, as a retailer I thought I could add a few bits of clarity to what seems to be an oft repeated topic, that of consumer rights around faulty items. First up, the caveat - I am not a lawyer, and I doubt very many people on here are either (despite how much conviction a quick google search on 'sale of goods act' seems to give many people ), but I do have 15 years experience dealing with how consumer laws are applied in practice. In Dapol's defense, it is fairly typical of an unhappy customer to simply walk back to a shop, or post to the manufacturer an item they just don't want any more saying 'its broken, give me cash' or something to that effect. And Dapol are perfectly correct, the first point of call should always be the retailer you purchased the item from. Now, if you buy IN a shop, you are covered by the sale of goods act 1979, however if you buy FROM a retailer by phone/mail/internet, you are covered by the distance selling regulations, which are subtly different. In practice, you are actually better covered through the latter as this gives you a cooling off period to decided 'actually I didn't want this after all', and send it back. If you buy from a shop in person, however, you cannot return an item simply because you changed your mind. Where I do think Dapol are falling down, and could certainly improve their customer service (note, they ARE acting entirely by the book, so this is about service not laws) by securing a supply of spare parts or appoint an official service agent in the UK to do the work if they rely on their Chinese counterparts in this area. Why should they do this? Well, most retailers that sell an item covered by a guarantee will have a policy along these lines: "If your item is found to be faulty out of the box, return it within 7 days and we will replace it for you. If your item develops a fault after 7 days, let us know and we will arrange for the item to be send back to the manufacturer for repair under their guarantee. We can either do this for you, or send you a form in the post so you can send this off yourself (it may suit some customers not to have to travel all the way to the shop twice more)." In the modelling world we are perhaps used to slightly 'cottage industry' salesmanship from retailers, and the very generous repair facilities offered by Bachmann. In other words, we are used to gruff blokes behind the counter who tell us its not their problem or they 'don't do refunds', and a maker who welcomes stock back to be repaired for a small fee. If Dapol aren't able to set up a UK repair facility, then they should make it clear in the box (to the customer), and to the retailer, that there is no repair option - all faulty goods will simply be replaced, and due to the batch production system, it may be there is no replacement, so therefore a refund would be obtained from the retailer. This issue affects all sorts of retailers and suppliers and is usually improved by clear communication between supplier and retailer, and then retailer and customer. When was the last time you were told as you bought a loco what the return policy was? Just doing that would solve many issues. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 As far as I can see, this PM issue is a red herring anyway. Neither Hattons nor Dapol would know that you were an RMweb member, even if they had there's no obligation on you to use a forum PM (which is IMHO at best a semi-official method of communication anyway), and you were perfectly entitled to choose the phone as your mode of contact (as you did). The use of PM as a medium to contact sponsors and/or vendor reps regarding commercial issues was addressed in the M G Sharp thread : http://www.rmweb.co....3146-m-g-sharp/ I must admit that I don't believe that the forum PM system should be used in such a way, and if this is even to be the case then it would need the tacit approval of at least the forum owner and the sponsor / vendor rep and clearly stated as such. I shudder to think of adverts stating tel +44 123 456 7890, email to 'vendor@rep.com' or pm 'vendor" on rmweb (or any other forum for that example. I have this odd image of people just waiting to receive PMs that need to be dealt with)... dilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave flint Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Agreed. And I hadn't realised that Dapol hadn't got some kind of repair facilities. They have previously made great claims in their adverts about the "Britishness"of their product. Can we have a breakdown of what does go on over here (i'm guessing at planning, CAD, some assembly work ) but that the chassis/body is made over in China ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Obviously not as it was part of the initial encompassing post and it was used to apparently bolster the OP's position. The OP can no doubt answer for himself, but I did think it was just part of the factual recounting of events. It comes back to well trodden ground, as you know, that the responsibility lies with the retailer to resolve complaints about goods not fit for purpose. Strewth. Indeed I do, as we both know it's advice I've given many times, but that in itself suggests that it's not as widely known as we'd like it to be. In this instance, the OP has simply followed advice given to him by a reputable retailer; AFAIC he's been caught between two stools through no fault of his own. I dont expect it will make me popular saying this, but nevertheless, it is how I see it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alibuchan Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 If the broken part was on the chassis, then Dapol do have the spare chassis for sale through the website or shop. As this was how my silver EWS 67 (well out of production about 10 months old) was sorted out with a new 'Spare Chassis' and the original old body. I did have to suggest this to them, through the retailer and got both bits a few days later. I was also told this was the case with another model that I got from a shop that had closed needed repairing. In the end I got fed up and took the motor out and rebuilt the thing best runner i have now! Alistair Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Agreed. And I hadn't realised that Dapol hadn't got some kind of repair facilities. They have previously made great claims in their adverts about the "Britishness"of their product. Can we have a breakdown of what does go on over here (i'm guessing at planning, CAD, some assembly work ) but that the chassis/body is made over in China ? The CAD for the 22 was lost in China originally so I don't think any of that is done here. I was under the impression new models come off the ship finished and are only checked and sent out here. Would be nice to have some clarification on that though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Just be glad that it was actually returned to the sender, unlike the £1500 parcel that was left on my doorstep for all the world to see all day long (S**ty Link).... To be fair, Amazon also leave stuff on full public view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave flint Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 To be slightly less fair (!), I've never had anything delivered directly by Amazon - in my experience they use royal mail, city link, fed ex........probably whoever offers the best deal. I've had parcels left with neighbours, returned to depot, left on drive, left in recycling bin, and the legendary "sorry you were out" card when I was in. Seems to depend on the man (always has been) on the spot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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